>>>Combat Feedback<<<

[Fess21]

Could we use the fuel slider to increase timers on missions?

[ThatZenoGuy]

3 hours ago, JANXOL said:

Many people have pointed out that gun reloads are too slow, but I was rather focused on the torpedo reload. Which is too damn fast. Way too fast.

In fact, I would argue that deck mounted torpedo tubes should have NO RELOAD untill late in the game. Historically that was the case, as destroyers and torpedo boats would carry all their torpedoes in tubes and reload only in dock. There were a few classes that did carry reloads, but these appeared pretty late (Japanese Fubuki and later destroyers, Soviet Leningrad). So i would say that it should be represented in the game.

Lower the weight of deck torpedo tubes.

Remove all reloads from them (unless appropriate tech is researched).

That reload should last a lot longer.

Reload time of submerged tubes should also be increased.

As it is now, a single destroyer can just rapid-fire torpedoes, wrecking most of enemy fleet. A crippled TB can fire 2-3 torpedoes from its singular launcher while the battleship attempts to finish her off with her secondaries. Torpedo spam is outrageous.

I think its mostly a balance mechanic.

Ships ingame are pretty good at turning compared to historical ones, its not uncommon to see a lone battleship 'zig zag' past a large number of torpedoes, and torpedoes themselves do less damage than historical ones.

[Otter Admiral]

Torpedoes, re-load speeds and, ammo amounts in general, still seem to be a work in progress.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to use historic figures for ammo amounts and re-load rates, while using completely fictional accuracy and/or, damage calculations.

Waiting forever for your BB's main guns to reload, while a merchant vessel turns your BB into confetti with its single 2-4 inch gun, through 13-15 inches of armor, and 11 inches of deck gun armor+ citadel armor, isn't remotely realistic or fun.

If were are going to forego realistic naval battle tactics, and use gimmicks such as timers to force the action, than things like ammo amounts shouldn't even be a thing. Rendering half of all the other considerations in building your ship superfluous. Your only real option is how much armor can this thing take, and how fast can it fire? If 2"-4" guns can take out a BB in less time than it takes to fire 2 salvos from its main guns, than you need not worry about even using them. *Which could be the main reason you are forced to add main guns in the first place. 

And then its the question of who decides how fast you SHOULD have won the engagement? GOD?

"Yes, Mr. President, we did spot a completely helpless convoy, in clear weather, at 06:00, and were sinking them faster than you can say "IMPEACH TRUMP!", but the egg-timer went off at 06:15, and so we had to leave the other other half of the convoy...and lost the engagement. We regret having let our country down." (FACE-PALM!)

Who decides HOW you should have won the war?

It would seem that that decision should be up to the player.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Otter Admiral

[sarrumac]

Merchants do absolutely nothing to my BBs. i do not know what is going on there.

[G777GUN]

After 17:45 watch the shells pass through a ship without causing any harm. Now why is that???

[G777GUN]

2 hours ago, sarrumac said:

Merchants do absolutely nothing to my BBs. i do not know what is going on there.

Merchants guns are not exactly powerful. But I guess some were armed with 6 inch guns. Anything less will just bounce off a BB.

[Absolute0CA]

They start the odd fire but that’s it, honestly if your that close that 6” and below is hurting you’re either in a BC or way too hello kittying close, or had a magic BB but.

[ThatZenoGuy]

1 hour ago, G777GUN said:

After 17:45 watch the shells pass through a ship without causing any harm. Now why is that???

Looks like projectiles are 'psuedo physical' but are actually just RNG pellets like in Homeworld 2.

Huh...

Considering Homeworld 1 could do physical kinetic projectiles in the 90's, I think we can do that too.

[G777GUN]

3 hours ago, ThatZenoGuy said:

Looks like projectiles are 'psuedo physical' but are actually just RNG pellets like in Homeworld 2.

Huh...

Considering Homeworld 1 could do physical kinetic projectiles in the 90's, I think we can do that too.

What annoys me is IF you hit anything else then technically it should count as an actual hit. So I hope they fix this.
But now its RNG system looks the  shells have a mind of their own. I mean look at this? These shells should not disperse this much at such a close range. The shells should be bunched together since they dont have enough time to disperse. Maybe the barrell was bent?

 

I

[RedParadize]

Patch note for next update already say dispersion will be reduced.

[ThatZenoGuy]

2 hours ago, RedParadize said:

Patch note for next update already say dispersion will be reduced.

Problem isn't dispersion, its that the shells are kinda just RNG streams from what I can see.

Lets say we have this hypothetical '100 barrel gun' and it has 1% chance to hit, logic dictates that each shot realistically would be 'next to the one beside/below/above it', whereas ingame at close range it would look like a shotgun fired, with one particular round magically being perfectly on target.

Or something akin to that.

Real projectiles only 'scatter' like a shotgun when you see their patterns at very long range.

At 1km, any naval gun would be effectively a sniper rifle.

[Christian]

On 10/22/2019 at 9:48 PM, JANXOL said:

Many people have pointed out that gun reloads are too slow, but I was rather focused on the torpedo reload. Which is too damn fast. Way too fast.

In fact, I would argue that deck mounted torpedo tubes should have NO RELOAD untill late in the game. Historically that was the case, as destroyers and torpedo boats would carry all their torpedoes in tubes and reload only in dock. There were a few classes that did carry reloads, but these appeared pretty late (Japanese Fubuki and later destroyers, Soviet Leningrad). So i would say that it should be represented in the game.

Lower the weight of deck torpedo tubes.

Remove all reloads from them (unless appropriate tech is researched).

That reload should last a lot longer.

Reload time of submerged tubes should also be increased.

As it is now, a single destroyer can just rapid-fire torpedoes, wrecking most of enemy fleet. A crippled TB can fire 2-3 torpedoes from its singular launcher while the battleship attempts to finish her off with her secondaries. Torpedo spam is outrageous.

yes 100%

torp reload should be from 3-5 minutes which is roughly what the japanese achieved irl (for a full quad launcher reload)

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ Reports/USNTMJ-200D-0530-0549 Report 0-01-3.pdf

 

do keep in mind its americans trying to reload captured japanese torpedoes so the amount of training they have recieved with the reloading device is probably low 

 

 

also there is NO WAY a destroyer can carry more than 1 full reload per torpedo launcher

 

[Latur Husky]

Small caliber guns definitely need some accuracy adjustments. I had some ridiculous situations where two small vessels have been just a 200 - 300 meters away from each other peppering each other from small caliber guns (2 - 4"), scoring nothing more than misses for good couple of minutes. I understand that guns at that periods were not particulary accurate, but currently small caliber guns are just useless (2" - 8").

[Cptbarney]

13 hours ago, G777GUN said:

What annoys me is IF you hit anything else then technically it should count as an actual hit. So I hope they fix this.
But now its RNG system looks the  shells have a mind of their own. I mean look at this? These shells should not disperse this much at such a close range. The shells should be bunched together since they dont have enough time to disperse. Maybe the barrell was bent?

 

I

Lol this is litterally the rng stuff you get on world of warships and do'nt get me wrong im quite a gud player but still.

Only at very long ranges or long ranges (depending on the firing systems, caliber, quality and edition of the guns and turrets) should shells disperse like that.

At that range it should be like close to 90% to 100% hitrates.

[Latur Husky]

3 hours ago, Cptbarney said:

Lol this is litterally the rng stuff you get on world of warships and do'nt get me wrong im quite a gud player but still.

Only at very long ranges or long ranges (depending on the firing systems, caliber, quality and edition of the guns and turrets) should shells disperse like that.

At that range it should be like close to 90% to 100% hitrates.

90 to 100 would be too much, It would make for very one sided and unfair battles at times. But it should be no less than 75 - 80%

Edited October 24, 2019 by Asthaven

[G777GUN]

2 hours ago, Asthaven said:

90 to 100 would be too much, It would make for very one sided and unfair battles at times. But it should be no less than 75 - 80%

Some battles IRL could be classed as unfair. But then war is war.

I remember when I put player controlled ships into Silent Hunter 4 and seeing the AI trying to hit a target at long distance was time consuming. But merchant ships... turn off the AI and get close, when you got close as 2000 yards you manually operate your big THIC turret and aim at the poor Liberty Ship.

 

And thats with a Admiral Graf Spee aka best merchant raider  

[Cptbarney]

8 hours ago, Asthaven said:

90 to 100 would be too much, It would make for very one sided and unfair battles at times. But it should be no less than 75 - 80%

Eh, at that range it would be pretty difficult to miss unless you started to diliberately miss or aim irregularly.

Although for those who prefer realism that would make sense as well since war has never been fair.

For game balance i understand, but i guess then you would need to take into account that at certain range both ships (unless damaged) will most likely not miss.

You would basically need to soften the target up, unless your ship is a brawling ship then you should be fine in general.

[ThatZenoGuy]

9 hours ago, Asthaven said:

90 to 100 would be too much, It would make for very one sided and unfair battles at times. But it should be no less than 75 - 80%

At such close ranges, those hefty guns would be all but certain to hit, excludiing fire control issues.

The problem with gunfire in game is that fire control is always "On point", and its just the shotgun dispersion which causes shells to miss.

I'd like to see them be more accurate, but go too far or too close on the first salvos before a proper fire solution is made.

Doing big turns making fire solutions weaker, etc.

[Agathos]

On combat here some oddities i noticed:

• main battery for no apparent reason refuses to fire all guns sometimes, target is locked on, all turrets pointed on target, good hit percentage, but only one or two guns fire
• main battery sometimes seems to wait for some indefinite status before opening up on enemy, had BBs sale miles before the forward guns that could open fire actually fired, turrets clearly tracked the target and had to problem with that, but they won't start firing, even on aggressive
• i'd like the option to set my main battery on different firing modes like "broadside", "as fast as possible" especially when one mixes guns of different barrel numbers i rarely see a nice broadside
• although it is stated the AI doesnt "cheat" it often feels that way, i now have numerous examples where i - despite a high hit percentage up to 100% - miss most of my shots, while the AI hits even when its hit percentage is way lower than mine, if AI has 100% all of their rounds usually find the target, while for me at 100% a miss in the 75-80% region is normal, thats frustrating
• penetration RNG seems also to favor AI heavily

Overall gameplay at higher missions and tech levels feels way more like RNG and AI ship designer luck than own contribution in maneuvering, ship building and so own.

Edited October 25, 2019 by Agathos

[goduranus]

@Agathos, sometimes it really is bad luck. RNG can give you a bad streak.

My own feedback:

I feel that turret are too hard to disable by gunfire  compared to real life. In most battles I read about, ships usually would have a a number of turrets disabled before the ship itself goes down, but in game, turrets hardly ever get disabled.

I think what's going on in real life is that turret machinery are getting jammed by shock or splinters, so turrets can be relatively easily become disabled by shells that would have been able to penetrate turret armor.

The second 28 cm round struck the ship's "X" barbette and disabled the turret.

[sarrumac]

About barbettes, there seems to be something off.

-They are easily hit and destroyed, which shouldn't be the case (I have more often barbettes destroyed than secondaries).

-It has no consequences of note on the turret.

-I would like to see more redundancy in some systems. I:e secondary turret drive in case main goes boom.

[goduranus]

1 minute ago, sarrumac said:

About barbettes, there seems to be something off.

-They are easily hit and destroyed, which shouldn't be the case (I have more often barbettes destroyed than secondaries).

-It has no consequences of note on the turret.

-I would like to see more redundancy in some systems. I:e secondary turret drive in case main goes boom.

Same, also there need to be an option to adjust barbette thickness for both primary and secondaries in the ship designer

[Absolute0CA]

Main battery barbettes was often one of the thickest pieces of armor on a ship, even surpassing the belt, though usually still behind the turret faces.

[imeoin01]

I've been trying the game again when it got the update. The combat still sucks.

 

I've been going back over some missions such as destroy 3 enemy torpedo boats using a battleship and at one point I was pounding at a torpedo boat. It good a lot of sells, 2 engines were damaged and suffered from 2 ammo explosions. Despite all of that it still didn't sink.

 

I even tried the semi dreadnought mission and I was unable to do damage to the semi dreadnought while they  were able to bombard my ship and burn it down.

 

After many hours of playing I still have no idea how the guns system works. The main guns have a random chance of hitting, I don't understand how to improve accuracy, the side guns and casement guns seem useless and I'm unsure about which shells to use since they seem to ether work very well or not.

 

Can someone please give me a clear explanation of what to do because I'm not sure if its the way the game was made or that I actually suck at playing the game.

[Latur Husky]

Small caliber guns still have blind gunners. 

16% Hit chance, that's how much I got while being 200m away from enemy ship. Not to mention that enemy was nearly stationary and so did Helena.

During 5 minutes, Battleship that was 4 km away managed to score more hits from main battery than these two cruisers all together

Edited October 25, 2019 by Asthaven