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Harting

Do Nations Even Matter?

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What is the point of having 11 Pirate nations fighting each other?   Seriously.

 

Add some kind of alliance/war mechanic, or just drop them entirely.   Leave it down to 50ish clans fighting over territory.  There is no point to this.

Edited by Harting
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Only the pirates should be at war with everyone all the time.  It just makes no sense to have 11 gangs fighting all other 10 for turf always. 

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Of course, nations make sense because they give small clans the chance in a kind of alliance (because that's a nation) to use their forces with larger clans for a common goal.
What happens in a clan-based game with the little clans? You only have three options. Either they have a great diplomat in their ranks who can make alliances with big clans, or they never play a role in cities with port bonuses and as a last resort they can disband and join the larger clan.
This makes the game better when, e.g. Clans like Reds, BF and Havoc can unite independently of any nation?

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I'd much rather see some sort of national relations mechanic, than clan-for-all.   But either of those are preferable to this.    It's just chaos. 

 

Either let nations formally ally/declare war, or  assign warfare across the server.   This week, Spain vs. US, and Dutch vs. Sweden for example.

 

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  • I like to sail deep within Brit territory with reasonable security.  I see almost no enemy ships unless I am near some of the busy ports.  Occasionally I see a fellow Brit and I can often chat.
  • When I want excitement I can sail along the borders of Brit territory, or near enemy ports.  The chances of seeing enemy and foreign NPCs increases dramatically.
  • The national demographics create a feeling of an open world with demarked zones.  Sailing in the game offers diversity and different atmospheres.

Having nations creates the opportunity for additional levels of strategy and politics.  The storyline unfolds and provides material for contemplation.  It is a thoughtful game  with complex patterns and connections.

If all the nations were eliminated,  I would be almost always be in enemy waters.  The whole map would be homogenous with less variety and the game would be less interesting.  Alliances/treaties can be created by players.  Players that want alliances can construct them.  They can build wealth, gain trust, and forge influence.  A player can become a leader and coordinate others.

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Removing nations will put more power into a handful of clan leaders, this will not solve the main problem of the game, which is strong can become stronger only, and weak has no other solution than waiting some strong group of players to change faction.

With clan based game, this should even not occur. And with possible alliances between clans (possible because "rogue" players who don't agree with alliance would be kicked out of the clan), strong alliances will be soon agreed in TeamSpeak/Discord between strong clans, against smaller clans and casual players... Game over. 

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4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Imagine that if instead of having 11 nations, the game had 5. 2 times more players per nation, way easier to do stuff.

Steamcharts is registrering 1075 players between 2 servers (3 months after release, just wait a few more months). It is not sustainable 11 nations with such pop.

 

Imagine if the game had foreign clan alliances among the weak, clans could unite against those who are steamrolling them.

Well I do not think it makes a big difference when 5-10 clans with 2-3 active members make an alliance, then to compete against BF. Anyone who has ever tried to co-ordinate 3-4 clans in their own nation will know what I am talking about.

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3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Imagine if the game had foreign clan alliances among the weak, clans could unite against those who are steamrolling them.

What' stopping nations from forming international alliances?  Is it more that just the ingame communication barriers?

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The whole nation concept is not working in my eyes. We lack an alliance system. The worst thing is the high port BR. Its impossible to coordinate the so called „end game contend“ of this game with the low player base and the high port BR. The high BR in combination with the front line system makes RvR impossible for small nations. If player base stays so low, we should get rid of some nations. Allso the port bonus system is demotivating players. The fear to lose all efforts against a zerg... . Most ports are meaningless. To own them is a burdon. Alts ruin the prices and it does not matter who owns the port because it will be flooded by economy alts within short time. PB with 20+ first rates are just boring. Said this and more  x-times. Most of my friends are not logging in any more or only for short crafting/transport duties. This game is released. I do not know how the main changes that are needed in my eyes should be done in a released game. 

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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I said the same thing over and over again. The game relies heavily on players to create content, yet does nothing to support them in this matter.

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21 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Imagine that if instead of having 11 nations, the game had 5. 2 times more players per nation, way easier to do stuff.

Steamcharts is registrering 1075 players between 2 servers (3 months after release, just wait a few more months). It is not sustainable 11 nations with such pop.

 

Imagine if the game had foreign clan alliances among the weak, clans could unite against those who are steamrolling them.

This could work with limitations:

  • Alliances with a strong nation must stay impossible, to avoid strong clans trying to get allied with other strong (for example today, imagine that SNOW allied to Russian clans - Just an example, I've nothing against SNOW except my carronades)
  • Declaration of war from a clan to its own nation must stay impossible (protection of smaller clans and casual players).

Removing 7 nations among 12... Difficult now!

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1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

Well, it is about time devs realize how huge was their mistake (the add of so many nations) and do something about it. Even if it is considered a radical meassure. 

I mean NA has lost half its pop in 3 months, can it get worse?

Well we could be forced to start funding keeping servers running ourselves, just to keep game floating😉

When that happens i guess it will be time to dust off the old c64 and get sid meier's pirats running!  (or not...)

Edited by Madame Sangre des Mortes

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2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Well, it is about time devs realize how huge was their mistake (the add of so many nations) and do something about it. Even if it is considered a radical meassure. 

I mean NA has lost half its pop in 3 months, can it get worse?

I would say it was extremely shortsighted at best,and yes it can get far worse currently i see only two relevant nations in RvR, now imagine when there is only 1.

1 hour ago, Madame Sangre des Mortes said:

Well we could be forced to start funding keeping servers running ourselves, just to keep game floating😉

When that happens i guess it will be time to dust off the old c64 and get sid meier's pirats running!  (or not...)

You mean you haven't done that already? Shame on you,load it up and see what a classic looks like btw its on steam so leave the c64 in it's box :) .

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what we lack has been pointed out so many times. Basic pve content and small details that gives great reasons in the bigger picture.

- Sailing under false flag (smuggling / passing enemy fleets)

- Outlaw mechanics for pirates.

- Player made treasure fleets (seville muskets, various ship materials)

- Encouraging crafting system (old one was much better even it ment abit hauling)

- Fix economy ( upgrades and cannons are worth 3 times the price of the ship itself)

- Higher end tier ships should require higher end tier resource. (you cant craft and AK47 from a log and a chip of stone in Rust, but in Naval Action historically a literally floating battery can be crafted from the same woods a gunboat can)

 

Dont know why i spend my time doing this, the game is released and alot of stuff havent been tested before release

 

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On 9/22/2019 at 10:15 PM, Madame Sangre des Mortes said:

11 pirate nations?, not even the pirate nation is a pirat nation...

only that they are treated as a nation here in the game? and that allows them to sail every type of available ship. so enlight us and explain your answer to us.

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Nations are a good feature in this game, especially new players wouldn't have a single friend without. Still we need to balance them. The larger a nation gets, the more difficult it should be to expand further.

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8 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

Nations are a good feature in this game, especially new players wouldn't have a single friend without. Still we need to balance them. The larger a nation gets, the more difficult it should be to expand further.

This is what an alliance system would solve. Just limit it to where the 2 largest nations can not ally with another nation and if the position changes and 3rd becomes 2nd for instance, then existing alliances are dropped automatically. 

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Balance could be maintained by reducing the BR allowed in a port battle depending on the amount of ports your nation owns. I like the idea of a far-away King deciding policy and wars starting and stopping on their whims.

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Pirates is the most popular Faction, strong attraction to buy NA from newcomers.

Let's give more importance to Pirates then.

Pirates players could become the main content providers ?

Give them a specific ladder to increase power, to become Republics and Kingdoms ?

Parallely give less power to national Factions, 

War server might become much more attractive with a strong natural Faction, the Pirates, to fight against all those national Factions,

I mean such a superpower Faction would become more acceptable. 

Imagine the troubles to face if a very few of current competitive clan leaders would be fighting for that skull flag faction...

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On 9/22/2019 at 8:02 PM, Harting said:

What is the point of having 11 Pirate nations fighting each other?

you can pick the good players to join, or join carebears instead(and rely on yourself only) or join an empty nation and build everything yourself (so you have to rely on yourself too in this case)

but I agree that there are too many nations

sadly It might be a bit late for a change, unless some nation is inactive enough

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Clans shouldn't have this much power over national matters, I've been saying this for a very long time now and I still say it, clans should only be a secondary order for players to supply themselves with the help of overs. Port Battles, RvRs, Hunting missions, PVE missions, Capture or Sink missions, Privateering should be the focus in every nation in the game. Right now clans are more powerful than the nation itself, players submit to clans, not nations and it's hello kittying wrong.

Edited by Marquês do Bonfim

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That divides even more the player base within the clans itself. And I don't agree with 11 nations being available aswell, don't get me wrong. Clans should be like an enterprise, but it should not hold responsibilities over national matters. Being that clans right now hold a lot of responsabilities from the Port Battles over nation, being able to tax and overthrow other clans that it doesn't get along with is beyond my imagination. If you're capturing a port, it shouldn't be your clans responsability, it should be national and everyone, EVERYONE in the nation should benefit from it. Clans have too much power in their hands, and they can control the whole port with taxation and friendly clans, small clans and clans that don't really get along with that clan simply does not benefit from it. What's the purpose of all this? 

Clans should be a way to create a trade route and warehouse to make money AND make that nation even more richier than it is. The nation should benefit from all of it without being limited or forced to beg for the clans friendship just to be able to gain access to the port bonuses, that kills even more the game. If it was a national matter and responsability, clans would get together and work together to capture ports so they can all benefit from it equally, no clan should be above the others. That's my opinion, but whatever.

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