Docking Fees

[Farrago]

TLDR version: Charge docking fees when ship enters port. Fees should be very expensive for first rates decreasing as BR decreases until 6th rates fees are very low and 7th rates docking fees are zero. All fees are waived if the ship is sold to the admiralty.

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All rates being capturable is potentially a good thing as it may allow more captains to participate in more game activities (albeit at a disadvantage to port bonus ships).

However this may cause line ship spam as folks use these "free" ships in a role for which they were not designed and wasn't realistic due to the high cost of operating these behemoths. If it costs significantly to use these ships, perhaps they will be misused less. The docking fees would be charged on docking, not on undocking so if you go out and get sunk, you avoid another fee.

[Teutonic]

this is taking the carrot away and hitting people with another stick.

If the point is to try and "stop" people from spamming 1st rates in their docks the effect will instead be that people get more frustrated and leave.

but some questions concerning this suggestion.

1. Would I be having to pay a fee every time I un-dock and dock?

2. do all ships pay a fee no matter what?

3. economically speaking, what should a player who starts from scratch reasonably "do" if they undocked and attempted to dock and couldn't because they found out they have no money to be able to enter?

4. in what way is a fee waived if you sell to admiralty? Do you pay the fee when you enter and if you "choose" to sell to admiralty, do you get that money back + the normal cash you get?

5. do we have a firm example of a group spamming captured lineships yet? is it really that much of a problem?

[Koveras]

The reason ppl use 1st rates is because ppl has to use 1st rates.

Rather than limit the rates, think about the roles they should accomplish ingame.

What exactly should 1st rates be used for? 2nd rates? 3rd rates? etc.

I'd suggest differentiated speed caps for different ships so as to avoid the 14kn Wasas (and yes I do have a couple of three but I can still find them unrealistic).. The problem with first rates is that they are a requisite for port battles so there the solution is simple and straight forward.. go back to the old system of differentiated BR, introduce maintenance on all ships above 4th rate so as to limit the desire to stockpile large ships.. When I was doing RvR I had 3 L'Oceans on each of my account and a plethora of 2nd rates, 3rd rates etc.. Basically through necessity and a desire to be able to keep the steam up if needed. Now.. I can't be bothered with RvR and even if I could DK/NG can't gather 25 players unless it's a defensive PB.. We have PvP every day at our doorstep, why should we care about the rest of the server?

[Farrago]

2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

this is taking the carrot away and hitting people with another stick.

If the point is to try and "stop" people from spamming 1st rates in their docks the effect will instead be that people get more frustrated and leave.

but some questions concerning this suggestion.

1. Would I be having to pay a fee every time I un-dock and dock?

2. do all ships pay a fee no matter what?

3. economically speaking, what should a player who starts from scratch reasonably "do" if they undocked and attempted to dock and couldn't because they found out they have no money to be able to enter?

4. in what way is a fee waived if you sell to admiralty? Do you pay the fee when you enter and if you "choose" to sell to admiralty, do you get that money back + the normal cash you get?

5. do we have a firm example of a group spamming captured lineships yet? is it really that much of a problem?

I disagree. My suggestion allows those who want to capture or build ships of the line to continue to do so, but if they use them, they will need to pay some amount when they bring them home. No stick. No punishment. Just a "simulation" of the cost of operating line ships so, just as during the Age of Sail, not every job was done by a ship of the line because of the cost to build and maintain.

Anyway, I'm sorry you didn't read my entire post because almost all of your questions were answered. It would have saved us both some time..

Answers:

1. Only when you dock, not when you undock. No fee if you end up losing your ship and can't return to a port.

2. Docking fees would go down as the BR goes down. Expensive for 1st rates ------> Free for 7th rates.

3. Sell the ship to the admiralty. One would not have the docking fee for selling the ship to the NPC.

4. I would prefer a simple question and a choice of two actions: Do you wish to turn this ship over to the admiralty and be rewarded150k reals or would you prefer to keep this ship and pay the docking fee of 150k reals?

5. No, not yet. Perhaps it won't end up being a problem and such a "solution" as mine won't be necessary. But what do you think is going to happen as more and more people obtain free to get and free to own 1st and 2nd rates?

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Farrago said:

TLDR version: Charge docking fees when ship enters port. Fees should be very expensive for first rates decreasing as BR decreases until 6th rates fees are very low and 7th rates docking fees are zero. All fees are waived if the ship is sold to the admiralty.

---------------------

All rates being capturable is potentially a good thing as it may allow more captains to participate in more game activities (albeit at a disadvantage to port bonus ships).

However this may cause line ship spam as folks use these "free" ships in a role for which they were not designed and wasn't realistic due to the high cost of operating these behemoths. If it costs significantly to use these ships, perhaps they will be misused less. The docking fees would be charged on docking, not on undocking so if you go out and get sunk, you avoid another fee.

No, this would create too many problems. Say you're nearly out of cash, you undock on your first rate, but now you're stuck on OW and can't dock up? Thats absurd. 

If you want operating costs for large ships, tie the costs to crew or something like that. Otherwise you'll end up with people that are stuck on the OW outside some freeport in an expensive ship, and they will lose it and get mad and possibly quit. 

[SantaRoja]

personally it's a nice idea, but I think it would be better if the fee wasn't for the docking but for the maintenance.

[Sea Archer]

I don't think docking fees are the right way.

I agree that stocking many ships should cost something, and of course more then stocking only a few 7th rates.

But I prefer ships to become shabby after a certain time (decreasing their properties) and need a refit. The time to become shabby depends on the wood. Fast ships need an earlier refit than slow live oak ones.

[Farrago]

5 hours ago, SantaRoja said:

personally it's a nice idea, but I think it would be better if the fee wasn't for the docking but for the maintenance.

Sure. That would be okay. But the reason I went this route is I don't want to restrict captains from owning as many 1st rates as they want nor harm crafters and those who hold ships for others. I also don't want you to have to constantly grind to keep a 1st rate nor have that expensive investment degrade.

And as for @EliteDelta concern, if you can't afford a docking fee, it's not a good time to sail the first rate.

[Thonys]