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BigAaron

This Needs to Stop

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Just like to inform we need a lot tuffer mechanics on who can enter battles I getting tired of people from other nations coming in and stealing loot because this interfering with my game play specially this player as in the picture below.

https://imgur.com/a/TjwlGGa

this need to be looked at right away because if this keeps happening players will leave because you letting this happen and wont be fair for playing trying to have fun and play properly

 

 

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2 hours ago, Louis Garneray said:

I disagree. If we remove the possibility of other nation to join a fight on our side it will negate greatly the possibility to have allies.

Your problem is a peripheral problem that can be solved by you: stay close to the ship you sink so you can loot it before anybody else.

The problem is, people have been joining just to steal loot. I've suffered that before, I was done sinking the ship and a player joined in, had a faster ship than mine, went straight into the loot and got it before I could, left the battle and I couldn't do shit, not even shoot at him to damage, since there's no PvP on the PVE server.

It's not that we don't want other players to join our battles, but there should be a timer for looting a ship, otherwise being able to join in, loot and leave is not really balanced/fair with the player doing the battle.

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Just now, Portuguese Privateer said:

The problem is, people have been joining just to steal loot. I've suffered that before, I was done sinking the ship and a player joined in, had a faster ship than mine, went straight into the loot and got it before I could, left the battle and I couldn't do shit, not even shoot at him to damage, since there's no PvP on the PVE server.

It's not that we don't want other players to join our battles, but there should be a timer for looting a ship, otherwise being able to join in, loot and leave is not really balanced/fair with the player doing the battle.

One player is always given credit for the sinking (unless it's AI that does the most damage).  You could solve this by having only the player who is credited with the sinking being able to loot the ship.  But I don't believe that devs want to do this.  It is realistic that any loot on a sunken ship is available to the first person who reaches it.  Another possible solution that has been mentioned in the past is that the player in battle must give permission to anyone who wants to join on his side.  Good luck getting that in the game!

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There's also the solution I just mentioned. Time. Fairly new player that just joined the battle, could be held back by waiting a few minutes before he can LOOT a ship. If you join the battle from the get go, you are entirely titled to loot the ships you solely sunk. I'm talking about players joining after the battle already begun.

Edited by Portuguese Privateer

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5 minutes ago, Portuguese Privateer said:

I'm talking about players joining after the battle already begun.

If I join the battle 5 minutes after you, but I do 75% of the damage, shouldn't I get the credit for the sinking and the right to loot the ship?

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Just now, Portuguese Privateer said:

You're joining another person's battle, lad. I still think a timer would fix the issue.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but the Devs want us joining battles.  It's up to each of us to display polite behaviour (or the other).  I joined a battle the other day and it was a noob fighting a bigger AI and in trouble.  I asked if he wanted help and when he said yes, I sunk the AI and told him to go ahead and loot it.  But I didn't have to....

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Yeah, but that's the problem. We all rely on people being cooperative about it on the PVE server, but there are still players that exploit this exact same soft spot, because on the PVE server, there's no consequence, so how do we prevent this?

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Just now, Portuguese Privateer said:

Yeah, but that's the problem. We all rely on people being cooperative about it on the PVE server, but there are still players that exploit this exact same soft spot, because on the PVE server, there's no consequence, so how do we prevent this?

Oh, it's the PVE server.  I absolutely believe you should have to be invited to join another's battle there.  There is just no reason to be allowed into a battle uninvited.

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I prefer the idea of who kills it has right, but the ability to grant permission needs to be something that has a longer range than the current Rightclick-CTRL / Available to all which has to be done within looting range (under 50m). Being able to open the map, click on the sunken ship and change it to available to all would go quite a long way. 

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1 minute ago, Raekur said:

I prefer the idea of who kills it has right, but the ability to grant permission needs to be something that has a longer range than the current Rightclick-CTRL / Available to all which has to be done within looting range (under 50m). Being able to open the map, click on the sunken ship and change it to available to all would go quite a long way. 

Simple solution that would solve a lot of drama

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Loot should be automatically given to you when the ship is sunk.  Only way to game that is to steal your kill.

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I've not heard that this is a big problem on the PVP server but it seems like PVE should work the same. If you want to loot it, be close and ready whenever it goes down.

Now if you are just one guy busy killing an AI fleet, well, you're getting other rewards such as completing missions, XP, and gold. You're asking Devs to protect a particular, unrealistic (or unhistorical) gameplay choice. 

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4 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Oh, it's the PVE server.  I absolutely believe you should have to be invited to join another's battle there.  There is just no reason to be allowed into a battle uninvited.

Exactly.  When I proposed the invite mechanism/permission mechanism, it was particularly the PvE server I had in mind.  The PvP server is slightly more complicated due to the clan and national conflict aspects, but some variant should work there.

On the PvE server, as you say, there is absolutely no reason for someone to be allowed to join someone else's battle on their side but against their wishes.  That person can only have malicious intent.  I really wish the devs would actually implement this; it would save a whole load of griefing at a stroke and wouldn't really interfere with any type of normal play.

Edited by Karvala

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1 hour ago, Farrago said:

I've not heard that this is a big problem on the PVP server but it seems like PVE should work the same. If you want to loot it, be close and ready whenever it goes down.

Now if you are just one guy busy killing an AI fleet, well, you're getting other rewards such as completing missions, XP, and gold. You're asking Devs to protect a particular, unrealistic (or unhistorical) gameplay choice. 

No, the OP is asking the devs to protect the current RoE, which prohibit loot stealing (with good reason).  The problem is the prohibition is not enforced by game mechanisms, and it needs to be.

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yes I totally agree if they want us to start working together let everyone join battles they should make it so that the person has the right to loot the ship they sink because them to allow this is no different then selling items etc for real money they encouraging stealing to happen in the game which is not right I can see this and I have heard people of left the game because of trolls something needs to be done I have seen players come to battles to steal loot but if you jump in on theres hell breaks loose this needs to be fixed pronto

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55 minutes ago, Karvala said:

No, the OP is asking the devs to protect the current RoE, which prohibit loot stealing (with good reason).  The problem is the prohibition is not enforced by game mechanisms, and it needs to be.

IS it against the rules or has Dev just given permission to shoot on the perpetrator with warning if it happens? I don't actually know because I can't say I've ever seen it on the PvP server?

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4 hours ago, Farrago said:

IS it against the rules or has Dev just given permission to shoot on the perpetrator with warning if it happens? I don't actually know because I can't say I've ever seen it on the PvP server?

Well, the devs have stated explicitly that the loot belongs to the person who initiated battle (regardless of kill credit; I don't like that part of the rule myself, but that's the rule).  By implication, therefore, if someone other than the battle initiator steals the loot, they're violating that rule.  The green-on-green permission was given not as part of the game per se, but as a way of players enforcing that rule themselves rather than clogging up Tribunal or F11.  Similarly for the green-on-green permission if someone enters your side of a battle and then attacks you; it's explicitly against the rules and you have permission to sink the offender after due warning.

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Looting is one of the worst mechanics in the game.  Swinging your mouse around looking for the little yellow X....not to even mention the ridiculous positioning it takes.

SOLUTION:  Know how wrecks work?  You're far enough away to send a boat and the big colorfully illustrated "TAKE" button appears.  Loot is taken.  For the life of me I don't understand the need to make things so grating, painful, and obtuse.  As a matter of policy almost, or a point of pride?

The battle's over.  Loot auto

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1 hour ago, Karvala said:

Well, the devs have stated explicitly that the loot belongs to the person who initiated battle (regardless of kill credit; I don't like that part of the rule myself, but that's the rule).  By implication, therefore, if someone other than the battle initiator steals the loot, they're violating that rule.  The green-on-green permission was given not as part of the game per se, but as a way of players enforcing that rule themselves rather than clogging up Tribunal or F11.  Similarly for the green-on-green permission if someone enters your side of a battle and then attacks you; it's explicitly against the rules and you have permission to sink the offender after due warning.

You might want to check some of the recent tribunals. it is NOT permissible to fire upon someone on your own team. This was made abundantly clear from one person being upset about punished for firing back at a player that was doing green on green against his first rate. The issue was that it was not clear that if he did not fire back to protect his ship that the devs would replace the ship and all the items on board. There was a comment a while back regarding giving someone 3 warnings to not steal loot before opening fire upon them. It was a very old post and predates the recent one that green on green is not allowed.

So, I think it has come to the point that the rules regarding green on green need to be brought up to date or clarification needs to be made in regards to the situations at hand of loot stealing and a player intentionally firing upon a team mate. To say that it is against the rules to defend yourself is going against the very basis that most of us have grown up to. This is compounded by the uncertainty that if you follow the rules and don't return fire that your stuff will be returned to you.

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5 hours ago, Raekur said:

You might want to check some of the recent tribunals. it is NOT permissible to fire upon someone on your own team. This was made abundantly clear from one person being upset about punished for firing back at a player that was doing green on green against his first rate. The issue was that it was not clear that if he did not fire back to protect his ship that the devs would replace the ship and all the items on board. There was a comment a while back regarding giving someone 3 warnings to not steal loot before opening fire upon them. It was a very old post and predates the recent one that green on green is not allowed.

So, I think it has come to the point that the rules regarding green on green need to be brought up to date or clarification needs to be made in regards to the situations at hand of loot stealing and a player intentionally firing upon a team mate. To say that it is against the rules to defend yourself is going against the very basis that most of us have grown up to. This is compounded by the uncertainty that if you follow the rules and don't return fire that your stuff will be returned to you.

On the contrary, I think you need to catch up with recent developments and the rules update as a result of them.  You *can* fire upon anyone in the battle, including someone who has joined on your side, after issuing warnings and recording with screenshots, if that person is (a) trying to steal your loot (that was clarified some time ago); or (b) is trying to sink you (that was clarified a week ago).  See the following:-

 

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18 minutes ago, Karvala said:

On the contrary, I think you need to catch up with recent developments and the rules update as a result of them.  You *can* fire upon anyone in the battle, including someone who has joined on your side, after issuing warnings and recording with screenshots, if that person is (a) trying to steal your loot (that was clarified some time ago); or (b) is trying to sink you (that was clarified a week ago).  See the following:-

There is actually not much point in firing green on green anyway.  Firing on a friendly does not keep him tagged in the battle instance so the loot stealers can happily take a hit from you, steal your stuff and exit when they choose.  Only hits from an enemy will keep you in the instance.  It would be a great additional content if in the event that someone takes loot that they are not entitled to, they immediately switch to enemy (go red).

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Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

There is actually not much point in firing green on green anyway.  Firing on a friendly does not keep him tagged in the battle instance so the loot stealers can happily take a hit from you, steal your stuff and exit when they choose.  Only hits from an enemy will keep you in the instance.  It would be a great additional content if in the event that someone takes loot that they are not entitled to, they immediately switch to enemy (go red).

Yes, I agree; that would be a substantial improvement and make a lot of sense.

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15 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

There is actually not much point in firing green on green anyway.  Firing on a friendly does not keep him tagged in the battle instance so the loot stealers can happily take a hit from you, steal your stuff and exit when they choose.  Only hits from an enemy will keep you in the instance.  It would be a great additional content if in the event that someone takes loot that they are not entitled to, they immediately switch to enemy (go red).

Think in the possible abuse ... 

There is no really problem with loot stealing ... If you plan your salvos and sailing ab bit you can easily loot your Kills yourself. Dont forget a smaller and faster ship cant go near the sinking ship because it will get boarded ... It has to wait for the "death" ... with more crew you can hug the enemy before "death" ...

 

 

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7 hours ago, Gilles de Rais said:

Think in the possible abuse ... 

There is no really problem with loot stealing ... If you plan your salvos and sailing ab bit you can easily loot your Kills yourself. Dont forget a smaller and faster ship cant go near the sinking ship because it will get boarded ... It has to wait for the "death" ... with more crew you can hug the enemy before "death" ...

 

 

But:-

(A) If you are fighting a fleet and busy with other ships, 

OR

(B) If you are in a close fight and don't want to put yourself in danger by sailing towards the dying ship while it is still firing

OR

(C) If the stealing ship has entered battle supposedly on the side of the ship being looted (as in the example in this thread), which will prevent it from being boarded

OR

(D) If the stealing ship is larger than the sinking ship, but still substantially faster/smaller than your ship

then there remains a problem.  More to the point, players shouldn't have to find ways to workaround a violation of the rules anyway.  Either we allow loot stealing or we don't.  If we don't - and the current rules say we don't - then it should be blocked by game mechanics.  If we do, then it should be openly stated and we can all engage in a free for all with the endless controversy and green on green tribunal cases that will undoubtedly result.

For what it's worth, I think loot stealing is absolutely wrong, there is no good historical argument for it, it's an abuse of the game mechanics and designed mainly to stop other players enjoying the game and having a level playing field.  It will lead to players leaving if not properly addressed.

Edited by Karvala

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