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Ed Rose

Port Bonuses need removing ASAP

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4 hours ago, Miaowi said:

Caracas has copper ingots and is Dutch just sail there and start buying.

I'd like to add to that. Currently there are 3 ports only which drops copper ingots. 2 Russian, and yes the Dutch one. 

I totally agree with the idea that copper should be limited to some extend. But in truth if you're not Dutch or Russian you have absolutely no way to get Copper (I guess except maybe seal bottles loot RNG and AI trader cargo RNG?). I tried sailing there, there are player contracts for copper and even after Maintenance, the contracts are automatically fullfiled (i thought contracts for resources could only be filled by players and not automatically by the town resource drops). So as a player of another faction, that means there's no way to gather certain resources for some of the bests and significants upgrades of the game - even if he is willing to do the effort of long sailing time and put up with the dangers of being a trader in enemy water.

I just think that it starts adding up to the port bonus situation.

Edited by Albator
edited for clarity

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1 minute ago, Albator said:

I'd like to add to that. Currently there are 3 ports only which drops copper ingots. 2 Russian, and yes the Dutch one. 

I totally agree with the idea that copper should be limited to some extend. But in truth if you're not Dutch or Russian you have absolutely no way to get Copper (I guess except maybe seal bottles loot RNG and AI trader cargo RNG?). I tried sailing there, there are player contracts for copper and even after Maintenance, the drops are automatically fullfiled (i thought contracts for resources could only be filled by players and not automatically by the town resource drops). So as a player of another faction, that means there's no way to gather certain resources for the best and more significant upgrades of the game - even if he is willing to do the effort of long sailing time and put up with the dangers of being a trader in enemy water.

I just think that it starts adding up to the port bonus situation.

And this is why the population is down and dropping.  it's too hard to get the stuff you want.  The players that cant get what they want just give up.  I've heard all of the arguments for working hard to gain advantage or join the right clan, but none of that will change basic human nature.  Many players are simply giving up, because they cant get the gear/mods/books/ships that they feel they need.  Sure, some of you will say that you don't actually need the gear to be successful and a few of you have shown this is true with your exceptional skill....but that is a minority.  Perception is what matters and if a player perceives he is at a disadvantage with no realistic hope of correcting it, he will walk away.

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3 minutes ago, Albator said:

I'd like to add to that. Currently there are 3 ports only which drops copper ingots. 2 Russian, and yes the Dutch one. 

I totally agree with the idea that copper should be limited to some extend. But in truth if you're not Dutch or Russian you have absolutely no way to get Copper (I guess except maybe seal bottles loot RNG and AI trader cargo RNG?). I tried sailing there, there are player contracts for copper and even after Maintenance, the drops are automatically fullfiled (i thought contracts for resources could only be filled by players and not automatically by the town resource drops). So as a player of another faction, that means there's no way to gather certain resources for the best and more significant upgrades of the game - even if he is willing to do the effort of long sailing time and put up with the dangers of being a trader in enemy water.

I just think that it starts adding up to the port bonus situation.

Indeed! A copper plating is sold for about 700k last time I checked so its very very expensive and rare if you're buying it in free ports.

If you really want copper ingots it means that unless you are wanting to pay this price you and your buddies will need to find a way to get those ports for yourselves. That is the game. That is the content. (you can do the alt thing too I guess but I don't want to mix up arguments here)

Nor does not having those ports mean you cant get copper plating. its just more difficult. Like I was trying to point out with my port bonus spiel here. There are myriad ways round it with many speed mods available. Some of them (Naval clock and navy hull) are better than cp.

Even if you wanted to build the ultimate fir/fir trinc griefer with cp you would still be able to that without having access to a copper port.

Not saying its easy, just saying that we should perhaps celebrate that actions are meaningful in Naval Action. That folks have eeked out advantages over time. What we definitely shouldn't do is make everything the same and easy available.

I would really like carta tar buy contracts so I'm going to try and get the port. That is the content. What I'm not going to do is demand readily available carta tar for everyone.

At the moment its pain in the arse to get and I don't tend to get many. Plus I'm not very good so it takes me an age to get the CM for the equivalent navy planking reward. Its something I live with and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't stop me enjoying this sandbox

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an increase to sealed bottle chances could help alleviate the rare resource issue.

 

Or the 25 special ports that randomly drop the rare resources to "come back" or be known.

or the clan delivery missions become more numerous in order to help players know where they can go to get resources.

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9 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

an increase to sealed bottle chances could help alleviate the rare resource issue.

 

Or the 25 special ports that randomly drop the rare resources to "come back" or be known.

or the clan delivery missions become more numerous in order to help players know where they can go to get resources.

There are definitely clan missions that are kept secret even tho they start with like 1mil of the resources

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"Copper plating should be rare" + "Copper plating is too expensive". Limitations should only ever apply to others, right? :)

 

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Those rare resources should only be available on ai traders and/or other ai ships. Best would be to have some ai escorted traders, a treasure fleet, that carry those goods. Then every nation has an equal chance to get them.

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Remove the magic captain's chest for upgrades. Cooper plating, Cartagena, or even Basic Hull refits would either need to be installed on a ship in the port where they're made/bought or sailed as cargo somewhere else putting them vulnerable on the open water. This would put pressure on the alt advantage and create content. 

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16 hours ago, Hethwill said:

If we backtrack to the test of woods distribution we see the root. Is all about "get out and take port if you want the resource".

System has evolved to - build whatever basic resources and rare woods you want in whatever port you control - and predominant "rare items" became the port bonuses, which is all about "get out and take the port if you want the bonuses".

In essence is all about fighting to control something rather than handing out everything to everyone equally.

I'm biased so I cannot support a "everyone has access to everything without fighting for it" most of the times, but in this case there's a odd rift between accessibility of resources ( very little resource transportation in the OW ) and ship refits ( extreme excessive gaps in performance, from 10% to 25% above standard, and comparing exact same qualities ).

So the question remains - do we want to fight for resources or do we want to fight for bonuses ?

Or maybe the question should be - do we want to fight at all ? ( in the sense of 'meaningful' fights, not the fight just for the sake of combat mode )

That's true, but it doesn't have to be over bonuses or resources. It could be something like nation X has an admiralty mission to take xyz port and gets rewarded (rewards could be anything, like doubloons, reals, resources, books, chests, etc.), OR there could be a way to 'win' the game where X nation gets a certain number of points for port captures and number of ports held, if they get to a certain number of points first for most ports held or captured they get some truly special reward before the map resets and the round starts over.

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10 hours ago, Sea Archer said:

Those rare resources should only be available on ai traders and/or other ai ships. Best would be to have some ai escorted traders, a treasure fleet, that carry those goods. Then every nation has an equal chance to get them.

Not necessarily... Bigger nations could screen out smaller ones or take the treasure first like what happens with the fleet wrecks currently. I like the idea though.

Edited by John Page

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17 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The port bonuses are not the problem.  The friendly clans list is the issue. 

 

17 hours ago, Miaowi said:

Interesting. Can you expand?

I think, what he is meaning that there are some suggestions floating around to give access to Port Bonus to ALL without taking the big clans something away ! To the contrary, they also would benefit from it

Win -Win Situation...check this out:

 

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The bonuses themselves aren't the whole problem. Clan ownership of ports has completely destroyed the viability of starting new clans or moving them en mass to a new nation, which in many ways is the #1 factor, (paid forged papers DLC being a necessity purchase instead of being available without further investment into the game being a close #2) which leads to rvr stagnation and the inability for nations to either grow OR get smaller. There was always massive periodic population shifts from player driven wars/events in-game in the past which were instrumental in breaking up population blobs that naturally occur from time to time. Think of the small but steady flow and occasional deluge of players moving between nations as a healthy cardiovascular system keeping multiple aspects game fresh for players. There are alot of things that can, should,  and have been put behind a paywall. Swapping nations was not one of them imho. Just wanted to throw in another perspective.

Edited by Potemkin

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My suggestion to relieve the current port bonus problem:

Give all nations with a capital, a "capital port bonus", which is 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3.

Or if this is an overkill, do a mixture of 2 and 3. Every nation's capital bonus can be different, with KPR's bonus reflecting the historical strength and weakness of British ships etc.

Why I think this will work:

1. Even with a 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3, this is still inferior to 4 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 which can be done at easily at 45 point port, and the different between 4 and 3 is actually pretty big (= a decent mod).

2. Capital does not enjoy the labour hour bonus, both for the shipyard and its resource buildings. The advantage of the labour hour bonus at player ports is still quite high.

3. Rare wood still need to be sourced.

4. Compare to removing the port bonus completely, this does not remove the hard work that people have already put in

5. Allows solo player to have a chance to craft decent ships, casual players who is afraid of losing their level 3 shipyard can just build them in capitals

6. Even a country lose their main crafting port, they still have the capital to build decent ships and fight back

 

This way, you have a gradual slope of 55 point port ships > 45 point port ships > capital build ships > random port bonus ships from dlc and notes > OW captured unbonused ships.

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On 9/27/2019 at 8:15 AM, Emain Macha said:

My suggestion to relieve the current port bonus problem:

Give all nations with a capital, a "capital port bonus", which is 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3.

Or if this is an overkill, do a mixture of 2 and 3. Every nation's capital bonus can be different, with KPR's bonus reflecting the historical strength and weakness of British ships etc.

Why I think this will work:

1. Even with a 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3, this is still inferior to 4 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 which can be done at easily at 45 point port, and the different between 4 and 3 is actually pretty big (= a decent mod).

2. Capital does not enjoy the labour hour bonus, both for the shipyard and its resource buildings. The advantage of the labour hour bonus at player ports is still quite high.

3. Rare wood still need to be sourced.

4. Compare to removing the port bonus completely, this does not remove the hard work that people have already put in

5. Allows solo player to have a chance to craft decent ships, casual players who is afraid of losing their level 3 shipyard can just build them in capitals

6. Even a country lose their main crafting port, they still have the capital to build decent ships and fight back

 

This way, you have a gradual slope of 55 point port ships > 45 point port ships > capital build ships > random port bonus ships from dlc and notes > OW captured unbonused ships.

A good idea. What about nations that don't have capitals though?

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47 minutes ago, John Page said:

A good idea. What about nations that don't have capitals though?

delete them

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On 9/27/2019 at 5:15 AM, Emain Macha said:

My suggestion to relieve the current port bonus problem:

Give all nations with a capital, a "capital port bonus", which is 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3.

Or if this is an overkill, do a mixture of 2 and 3. Every nation's capital bonus can be different, with KPR's bonus reflecting the historical strength and weakness of British ships etc.

Why I think this will work:

1. Even with a 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3, this is still inferior to 4 / 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 which can be done at easily at 45 point port, and the different between 4 and 3 is actually pretty big (= a decent mod).

2. Capital does not enjoy the labour hour bonus, both for the shipyard and its resource buildings. The advantage of the labour hour bonus at player ports is still quite high.

3. Rare wood still need to be sourced.

4. Compare to removing the port bonus completely, this does not remove the hard work that people have already put in

5. Allows solo player to have a chance to craft decent ships, casual players who is afraid of losing their level 3 shipyard can just build them in capitals

6. Even a country lose their main crafting port, they still have the capital to build decent ships and fight back

 

This way, you have a gradual slope of 55 point port ships > 45 point port ships > capital build ships > random port bonus ships from dlc and notes > OW captured unbonused ships.

The problem with this is that you will start hearing the "Impossible Nations" complaining. Granted the little trio should have been removed a long time ago as obviously they are not as impossible as originally portrayed and at this point I doubt that the server population will be able to fully sustain as many nations as are currently active.

Remove the impossible twits and your idea may have some merit. Though I would adjust the numbers a little bit for flavor. Give each nation a particular specialty.

For instance US - crew +1 / Britain hull +1 / France sail+1 / Spain gunnery+1 / ... etc on down the list. I do not feel that this will give any nation a particularlly large advantage over anyone else (unless you start adding -1 to counter the bonus in another area). 

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On 9/17/2019 at 6:50 AM, RubyRose said:

lol the port bonuses are fine as they are there is no grounds to have them removed 

Why were they introduced? The balance was already too shifty with mods + books. 
Delta should have been reduced, instead it was doubled.

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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Why were they introduced? The balance was already too shifty with mods + books. 
Delta should have been reduced, instead it was doubled.

And this surprises you? Here is a good game to play....count how many ideas that sounded good turned out to be total failures and now count the number of ideas that actually played out as they should have and got removed shortly afterwards. The problem now is that there is no way to reverse anything without doing a total wipe. You think the population is small now, imagine what it will be like if people have to start over with nothing with the way the mechanics and cost of things are currently. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Raekur said:

And this surprises you? Here is a good game to play....count how many ideas that sounded good turned out to be total failures and now count the number of ideas that actually played out as they should have and got removed shortly afterwards. The problem now is that there is no way to reverse anything without doing a total wipe. You think the population is small now, imagine what it will be like if people have to start over with nothing with the way the mechanics and cost of things are currently. 

You know, most of the idea's that have turned sour were not proposed by community but were implemented by surprise. Thing's that nobody asked for or even thought to ask for. The suggestions that reoccuringly show up in the forums, periodically by different types of player each time drumming up moderate support without fail are the ideas that are bouncing in the collective minds of NA players.

Those are what we all want but how often do we have to ask before we get it? Is it even possible to count up how many threads have been made on raids and such?  New mission types, blockades? It one patch to implement the most standard of pvp and economy missions and the effect of the change was so great we almost couldn't handle it. If each patch adding something new each time instead of trying to rewrite what's already in we would've had a killer game by now.

Ideas that drum up hype and make people viscerally excited get no serious attention. Everything we get is to fix some problem. Port bonuses was suppose to save RVR. RVR is flawed in a different way, it's not accessible. It's shallow and repetitive and is dictated by clans and not nations. Battles have no dynamic to them, no landings, no supply logistics just the same groups of people playing COMP style NA. RvR somehow, although being the entire reason for Open World NA comes out as the same placeholder carryover from the original NA before OW. It's stale as can be, yet people want to "save" it. Not compatible!

Edited by Slim McSauce
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On 9/17/2019 at 11:25 AM, Angus MacDuff said:

And this is why the population is down and dropping.  it's too hard to get the stuff you want.  The players that cant get what they want just give up.  I've heard all of the arguments for working hard to gain advantage or join the right clan, but none of that will change basic human nature.  Many players are simply giving up, because they cant get the gear/mods/books/ships that they feel they need.  Sure, some of you will say that you don't actually need the gear to be successful and a few of you have shown this is true with your exceptional skill....but that is a minority.  Perception is what matters and if a player perceives he is at a disadvantage with no realistic hope of correcting it, he will walk away.

goto a free town and go buy them then if u cant make them go buy them. u want something someone will have a price for what u want.  stop crying like its these big nations fault cause they worked to secure these resources. port bonuses are fine as well GB just took a 55 point port so its not impossible for other nations to do the same. stop crying about these problems u seem to be having if u want access to these things then fight for them.

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15 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

You know, most of the idea's that have turned sour were not proposed by community but were implemented by surprise. Thing's that nobody asked for or even thought to ask for. The suggestions that reoccuringly show up in the forums, periodically by different types of player each time drumming up moderate support without fail are the ideas that are bouncing in the collective minds of NA players.

Those are what we all want but how often do we have to ask before we get it? Is it even possible to count up how many threads have been made on raids and such?  New mission types, blockades? It one patch to implement the most standard of pvp and economy missions and the effect of the change was so great we almost couldn't handle it. If each patch adding something new each time instead of trying to rewrite what's already in we would've had a killer game by now.

Ideas that drum up hype and make people viscerally excited get no serious attention. Everything we get is to fix some problem. Port bonuses was suppose to save RVR. RVR is flawed in a different way, it's not accessible. It's shallow and repetitive and is dictated by clans and not nations. Battles have no dynamic to them, no landings, no supply logistics just the same groups of people playing COMP style NA. RvR somehow, although being the entire reason for Open World NA comes out as the same placeholder carryover from the original NA before OW. It's stale as can be, yet people want to "save" it. Not compatible!

the problem with most of these ideas its always the same people. right now we have was 2 pages worth of online users for the forum. we have about 1000 players online in game on a given day, these are likely connected, ur not getting majority vote on these suggestions. ur getting the few that actually use the forums. and even fewer of the players that play actually even know this forum exists. steam doesnt have a link to the forums and unless ur told by someone about the forum or given a link they have no clue it exists. its likely why very little of what the players suggest get implemented because so few actually talk or contribute to suggestions on here.

there is no issue with the current implemented port bonuses. u want a port that has 55 points to turn into a crafting port well go out and get it. attack another nation take their port. this is a war server thats the point nothing is safe all valuable ports and resources are up to being attacked and fought over. putting default 3's across for capitals defeats the purpose of capping ports if u can already make ships in safe harbor of decent quality. 

 

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It is a war server. But the amount of grind required to actually partake is out of balance.  There remains no effective defense against 2 or more attacker’s - that’s fine, but you can’t expect someone to grind 70 missions just to build the shipyard, and another 3-4 per ship crafted, to do it. In addition to all the farming/ trading for mats, upgrades, cannons....

 

youre talking an investment of 200 hrs just to get it blown up. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Harting said:

It is a war server. But the amount of grind required to actually partake is out of balance.  There remains no effective defense against 2 or more attacker’s - that’s fine, but you can’t expect someone to grind 70 missions just to build the shipyard, and another 3-4 per ship crafted, to do it. In addition to all the farming/ trading for mats, upgrades, cannons....

 

youre talking an investment of 200 hrs just to get it blown up. 

and if i remember correctly this is a hardcore game. just look at the tutorial. if it takes u 200 hours to build a ship then i guess running solo isnt how ur going to excel in this game. 

its built around clans for a reason making ships is a clan effort, taking ports is either a clan or nation effort. if u as a player cant handle dipping in a meer 200 hours then maybe this game isnt tailored to your interests.

i play a game on the internet thats entirely text based it takes years to build fleet and all blown up in a meer 5 seconds to a larger fleet only to rebuild it again to do the same. so dont complain over a meet 200 hours

Edited by RubyRose

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Yeah that would be neat with a bigger player base.  At the moment, you’ve got 5-15 active players in any clan. That’s not enough for a gang let alone an economy. 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Harting said:

Yeah that would be neat with a bigger player base.  At the moment, you’ve got 5-15 active players in any clan. That’s not enough for a gang let alone an economy. 

so whats the problem 5-15 members go out farm 4 missions or do 4 cargo consolitade the dubloons and money and u got a lvl 3 shipyard. then u go out do it again then do clan missions get woods build resources or buy them from other ports transport them to ur shipyard and make ships. its not impossible to do with small clans.

a new player has recently joined our clan he in the week he has been playing he has gone out and collected all the material and money and dubs on his own to buy his own ships that are crafted in the nation. he on his own is selfsufficant he is brand new to NA and has no trouble on his own to get what he needs.

yes the smaller clans cant have what the larger clans have but they just need the money to buy what they want or need. to say port bonuses are the problem just look at what u can capture now no nation should be in a point where they cant field a fleet of firsts whether crafted to capped. the instance of blaming the port bonuses or large nations owning valuable ports is moot in regard to it being the problem the real problem is other players want the devs to fix the game so they dont have to go out and fight these bigger nations because they dont want to lose what they have.

Edited by RubyRose
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