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Ed Rose

Port Bonuses need removing ASAP

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Port bonuses concentrates shipping on a small area, so a big part of the map is not used so frequently anymore.

I would remove port bonus completely and replace it with a crafting experience bonus  (for each ship type separately). If you craft a lot you build great ships, the influence of such a crafting bonus should a third of todays port bonus...

Well, I suggested it before, but no one wanted to hear it...

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2 hours ago, Sea Archer said:

Port bonuses concentrates shipping on a small area, so a big part of the map is not used so frequently anymore.

I would remove port bonus completely and replace it with a crafting experience bonus  (for each ship type separately). If you craft a lot you build great ships, the influence of such a crafting bonus should a third of todays port bonus...

Well, I suggested it before, but no one wanted to hear it...

I have suggested that if a nation owns the entire county - the clan owning the capital port get to choose which "European rare resource" they want to "request" from Europe for additional support. the open market would then start selling this good as it comes in (like all rare resources) a fluffy way of saying it..

mechanically speaking,

clan X owns Santo Domingo, and their nation owns the entire county,

the clan can now request additional support from Sweden and after maintenance Santo Domingo will have swedish carpenters spawn at the port for purchase. You cannot change the support for at least 2 weeks.

If an enemy takes a port in the county then you lose this bonus (assuming we would fight regional ports first) - but essentially currently you attack county capital anyway, so if you lost the county, the support goes away until the county has been stabilized.

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100 % Agree Port Bonus should be removed and replaced by crafter tec tree .

Give this power back to player's it will avoid a lot of playground drama with Clan leader using their (over)power to break game experience and fun to a lot of player's.

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I agree. Make it like the captain perks. But make it grindable. So each player can achieve there own unique port bonus combination eventually.

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On 9/7/2019 at 12:14 PM, Thonys said:

the problem is the 15 slots for the friends list 

that should be unlimited and by choice of the port holder (if it is a friendly nation clan )

all nations have more than 15 clans..and that is the problem..... not the bonus,  or the port size .

 

On 7/5/2019 at 1:42 PM, van Veen said:

Workaround to allow more clans than fit on the friendly clan list access to port upgrades. This requires clans to have alt accounts. 

  1. The port owning clan creates a new crafter clan with one alt account. This alt account is now the master of crafters. 
  2. The port owning clan puts the crafter clan on the friendly clan list.
  3. Each clan that cannot be added to the friendly clan list due to hard-coded maximum list length (in the following: associated clan) assigns one crafter alt account.
  4. The master crafter invites associated clan crafters to the crafter clan. This way, associated crafters (associated clans' alt accounts) have full access to the port upgrades (and could also join port battles). 
  5. The associated crafters can craft ships with port upgrades and pass them on to their main clan. 
  6. Optional: the clan warehouse of the crafter clan could be used to pool resources for port upgrades among associated clans. 

The crafter clan is a dummy clan allowing access to port bonus and port resources. One crafter clan per nation is sufficient, since the crafter clan can have 250 (?) clan members allowing access to port upgrades to 250 clans (in theory). 

This construction might collapse or even become source of disagreements if there are several "leading" clans having different points of view about the crafter clan membership. 

Sounds complicated, but has huge potential, I think. After all, most clans already assigned crafter roles to certain players or alt accounts. So, the process for associated clan members would not be very different. 

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Port bonuses are fine n should stay in my opinion.

Naval action is unique in that it doesn't mollie coddle its player base. You can, through effort and cooperation eek out advantages. This sets it aside from most mainstream games and is something we should consider protecting

There are a myriad factors determining the outcome of a battle, of which port bonuses is only one. By the time you take into account player numbers, player skill, wind and knowledge slots the additional port bonus of the ship facing you is often negligible. 

Not to say that there aren't battles where port bonuses are a determining factor, but this game doesn't need to be even steven through the middle.

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15 minutes ago, Miaowi said:

By the time you take into account player numbers, player skill, wind and knowledge slots the additional port bonus of the ship facing you is often negligible. 

Do two tests.

1. Normal blue quality, no port bonus versus normal blue quality, full port bonus for sailing and agility. Same modules and books for both ships. Do a tack - from 65º to 65º. Chronometer time and register recover speed ( at opposite tack 65º )for both.

2. Normal blue quality, no port bonus versus normal blue quality, full port bonus for crew and repairs. same modules and books for both ships. Do a repair - register cooldown timer and amount repaired for both.

Report results. Thanks a ton.

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Do two tests.

1. Normal blue quality, no port bonus versus normal blue quality, full port bonus for sailing and agility. Same modules and books for both. Do a tack - from 65º to 65º. Chronometer it.

2. Normal blue quality, no port bonus versus normal blue quality, full port bonus for crew and repairs. same modules and books for both. Do a repair - register cooldown timer and amount repaired.

Report results. 

will,.. do you have some results ?we need at least more than 3 results to come up with something .

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Hethwill my friend. I'm not saying that the differences between a 0/0 vs a 5/5 ship is negligible. Your test would prove the disparity

What I'm saying is that there usually a myriad other factors at play that are more deterministic than your test tube example. Naval action just doesn't work as per your test in reality. 

1v1 noob in a 0/0 bucket vs a 5/5 spangly toy

 

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6 minutes ago, Thonys said:

will,.. do you have some results ?we need at least more than 3 results to come up with something .

Sure. Do it as many times as you wish. :) 

 

3 minutes ago, Miaowi said:

Hethwill my friend. I'm not saying that the differences between a 0/0 vs a 5/5 ship is negligible. Your test would prove the disparity

What I'm saying is that there usually a myriad other factors at play that are more deterministic than your test tube example. Naval action just doesn't work as per your test in reality. 

1v1 noob in a 0/0 bucket vs a 5/5 spangly toy

 

Is not about 1v1. Is about 25v25 as much as 1v1, hence 2 tests - ability to change tack ( fleets often have to do it ) and ability to repair to get into line again.

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I gotcha but you're not getting the root of what I'm getting at. I said one to one as your test specified one ship with vs one ship without port bonuses.

25v25  fleets would never run your 0 to 5 point port bonus disparity in reality.

Before we homogenise port bonuses for everyone (which im not adverse to) we should think if they are really the boogie man they are made out to be.

The actual reality might be this:

Me the noob in my 5/5 shiny toy, without all skill books vs a 3/3 or 4/4  equipped player who can actually sail. Take player numbers, wind, position into account and you have other factors that are just as deterministic.

Naval action is unique in that (like in Eve and RL) advantages can be eeked out through hard work and cooperation. I'd really like to buy cartagena tar for example . I can't. That monopoly lives with the dutch. If I want carta tar I need to go get it. This in in my mind is fair and is the content. I don't think the solution is to give every nation carta tar.

I believe there are 6 55 pointers in total and though im not 100% sure I think most nations have access to at least 45 points ports

 

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If we backtrack to the test of woods distribution we see the root. Is all about "get out and take port if you want the resource".

System has evolved to - build whatever basic resources and rare woods you want in whatever port you control - and predominant "rare items" became the port bonuses, which is all about "get out and take the port if you want the bonuses".

In essence is all about fighting to control something rather than handing out everything to everyone equally.

I'm biased so I cannot support a "everyone has access to everything without fighting for it" most of the times, but in this case there's a odd rift between accessibility of resources ( very little resource transportation in the OW ) and ship refits ( extreme excessive gaps in performance, from 10% to 25% above standard, and comparing exact same qualities ).

So the question remains - do we want to fight for resources or do we want to fight for bonuses ?

Or maybe the question should be - do we want to fight at all ? ( in the sense of 'meaningful' fights, not the fight just for the sake of combat mode )

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25 minutes ago, Miaowi said:

I gotcha but you're not getting the root of what I'm getting at. I said one to one as your test specified one ship with vs one ship without port bonuses.

25v25  fleets would never run your 0 to 5 point port bonus disparity in reality.

Before we homogenise port bonuses for everyone (which im not adverse to) we should think if they are really the boogie man they are made out to be.

The actual reality might be this:

Me the noob in my 5/5 shiny toy, without all skill books vs a 3/3 or 4/4  equipped player who can actually sail. Take player numbers, wind, position into account and you have other factors that are just as deterministic.

Naval action is unique in that (like in Eve and RL) advantages can be eeked out through hard work and cooperation. I'd really like to buy cartagena tar for example . I can't. That monopoly lives with the dutch. If I want carta tar I need to go get it. This in in my mind is fair and is the content. I don't think the solution is to give every nation carta tar.

I believe there are 6 55 pointers in total and though im not 100% sure I think most nations have access to at least 45 points ports

 

no no.... that is not in the hands of the dutch .

it is in the hands of the russian alts

many of the dutch do not have cartagena tar

thats a frame of the  mind

cartagena tar is on contract unpayable and sold at the russian ports and freeports for incredible high prices 

also a developer workaround  thingy (paint can not be trade but only put on a vessel :)) for tar what is a kind of fluad should have the same condition )

Edited by Thonys
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2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

no no.... that is not in the hands of the dutch .

it is in the hands of the russian alts

many of the dutch do not have cartagena tar

thats a frame of the  mind

cartagena tar is on contract unpayable and sold at the russian ports for incredible high prices 

also a developer thingy

Thonys my friend. I'm not talking about Alts. I'm talking about my ability to get access to carta tar. which I can't currently. I can get copper ingots however. It's all swings and roundabouts.

Tbh completely honest I saw your gold o/wo 5/5 heavy rig trinc with Katherine bowsprit, cotton sail and cole-benedict pump which suggests you have other remedial actions to consider before asking for port bonuses to be homogenized. ( a friendly poke from a Belgian to a dutchie :) ) x

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14 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

So the question remains - do we want to fight for resources or do we want to fight for bonuses ?

Or maybe the question should be - do we want to fight at all ? ( in the sense of 'meaningful' fights, not the fight just for the sake of combat mode )

Put it this way: I really want access to carta tar - I hope to see you on the battlefield there for many moons to come :)

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8 minutes ago, Miaowi said:

Thonys my friend. I'm not talking about Alts. I'm talking about my ability to get access to carta tar. which I can't currently. I can get copper ingots however. It's all swings and roundabouts.

Tbh completely honest I saw your gold o/wo 5/5 heavy rig trinc with Katherine bowsprit, cotton sail and cole-benedict pump which suggests you have other remedial actions to consider before asking for port bonuses to be homogenized. ( a friendly poke from a Belgian to a dutchie :) ) x

well ...most of us do not have cartagena tar eighter

the problem here is just the drop rate what is a drop , it should be in a mine (mineable) setting and the problem would be solved

its like grietje van dijkens.... they are aliens too.

---------------------------

i was glad i was rid of that slow boat :) for me those ships do not work i finaly get rid of all of them thanks for that .

Edited by Thonys
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2 minutes ago, Miaowi said:

 I hope to see you on the battlefield there for many moons to come :)

For sure. That's the expectations of many Naval Action naval officers, to win a hard won fight and conquer access to something valuable.

o7

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Might be a bit off topic here, but what happend to moving forests? Does the idea of conquer for them died? Also, can it spawn carta tar like it spawns copper mine?

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5 minutes ago, Thonys said:

i was glad i was rid of that slow boat :) for me those ships do not work i finaly get rid of all of them thanks for that .

I gotcha but those upgrades are difficult to defend my dude. If speed was an issue perhaps copper plating, navy hull and a sextant? Heck go crazy and add a bovenwinds. She may never be the fastest but you'd get her speed to be competitive and you'd still have room for one more upgrade (harkens back to my point about naval action being uniquely situational)

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15 minutes ago, Miaowi said:

I gotcha but those upgrades are difficult to defend my dude. If speed was an issue perhaps copper plating, navy hull and a sextant? Heck go crazy and add a bovenwinds. She may never be the fastest but you'd get her speed to be competitive and you'd still have room for one more upgrade (harkens back to my point about naval action being uniquely situational)

agreed and there is the other one .

copper plating .

also a alien and also in the hands of other nations 

the problem goes actually down to minable port features  

al the things you mention are not accessible for most of us.... just like the tar is to you .

that is one of the reasons foreign nations only attack ports for the frame of the mind (cartagena for instance) and not for the resources (a alt will do the trick also)

(he who can afford the most reeals has the world on his feet  and we (single account ) noobs look at it )

besides that.. if you look at port bonus they have nothing to do with this issue.

Edited by Thonys

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lol the port bonuses are fine as they are there is no grounds to have them removed 

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9 minutes ago, Thonys said:

agreed and there is the other one .

copper plating .

also a alien and also in the hands of other nations 

the problem goes actually down to minable port features  

al the things you mention are not accessible for most of us.... just like the tar is to you .

that is one of the reasons foreign nations only attack port for the frame of the mind and not for the resources

Caracas has copper ingots and is Dutch just sail there and start buying. 

Having said that I think your suggestion of making these mineable is interesting and has merit. The market is volatile as the resource is rare and results in v good upgrades which I'm not adverse to either. It all adds to the canvas that is playing NA

I'm hoping that tar will soon be available for me :)  just as I'm hoping you'll sail out to defend your access to it

 

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All power to the crafters! Port bonus should be removed, a crafter bonus introduced. 

Remove the upgrading of ports with resources and let ports produce the good, that can then be bought by players and shipped to their manufacturing port.

Give players the chance to fight the big nations supply lines.

Now production is too protected. Hauling goods at a certain risk is what the game needs. Make capped good worth something. This game is more than pvp.

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2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The port bonuses are not the problem.  The friendly clans list is the issue. 

Interesting. Can you expand?

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