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2 New Items: Loki Rune, And Ship Logbook

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On 10/25/2019 at 8:00 AM, admin said:

Peace server players requested port battles, requested investment, requested taxation and asked for Fair PVP.
Peace they got it all and got the Loki Rune (the NPC prayer to gods to help them).

Months ago i suggested a different PB mechanic for pve. PBs 20 vs 20 where doens't matter how many players are in the battle the game would always fill the ranks on both sides with AI ships  . This would be better IMO because doens't matter if the player is alone or in a small clan or there are 20 players , the game would always create a 20 vs 20 epic battle for the players who were interested to have fun. That being said i am pleased to see you are trying to bring new life to the pve server.

 

However i need to ask this. Did you changed idea about having an AI agression on the OW in the pve server? I am still waiting for this feature.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, admin said:


Loki also helps to see that AI is not really over buffed or crazy strong as users say. 

If that's true then can you explain how if I attack an AI ship with the same ship and we both shoot doubles at each other I take nearly twice as much damage? 
Even though the AI ship is mahogany/crew space and has no upgrades or port bonuses. While mine has the best books and upgrades. Can you tell us how that is even possible if the AI has no buffs?

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On 9/3/2019 at 5:29 PM, admin said:

Captains

2 new amazing items will come to the game in the next (treacherous waters) patch

Loki Rune 
Item Description: 
Bjarkan er laufgrønster líma;
Loki bar flærða tíma

  • Purpose unknown
  • Origin unknown
     

Ship Logbook
Item Description:
Omnia iam fient quae posse negabam

Origin known: Drops from open world combat activities
Purpose known: Shows open PVP battles in a certain radius around the player.

This is a pvp item - it probably wont work on the Peace server even for testing
 

Ship Logbook
Item Description:
Omnia iam fient quae posse negabam

Translation from Latin:  "everything which I negated to happen is already happening"

I wonder what they meant by this:)

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23 minutes ago, admin said:

 Loki also helps to see that AI is not really over buffed or crazy strong as users say. 

Double Ball/Charge never runs out on a NPC, as long as you never change the shot type. I've loaded into a few Loki's that have either of these loaded and they never ran out of ammo. But I can say the only NPC that I feel are "over buffed or crazy strong" are the Elite NPC. Their sails are too strong, as is their hull (some shots don't even register), but of course it doesn't matter if you attack only lower rate elites, or group up on higher rate elites.

Also, can you confirm/deny that our player ship has an agility nerf when fighting Elite NPC? My Prince dN is more agile than a Snow when facing any normal NPC, but as soon as I face an Elite NPC, it becomes a complete log, unable to turn, or stop. (Oddly, the acceleration seem unaffected.) Basically, when facing regular NPC, my ships are brilliant, when facing an Elite NPC, they move like they're half full of water.

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3 hours ago, van der Clam said:

Double Ball/Charge never runs out on a NPC, as long as you never change the shot type. I've loaded into a few Loki's that have either of these loaded and they never ran out of ammo.

I’ve only Loki-ed into one battle so far. My ship had charged loaded on one side. I didn’t change it but he ran out of charged shot after one more broadside.

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NPC ships are not buffed? Then they must have something helping them maintain speed once their sails are down below 70% and are able to maintain the same speed they had when the fight started. Maybe the NPC ships have acquired the mystical technology of Duct Tape.

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I'm afraid that Loki rune could be another thing which lower population of servers. I already few times barely survived battle against NPC fleet cause of other players taking command on AI ships. 

I understand that it's a testing thing, or some idea to develop but when I play on PVP server (the only one I ever played), when I'm attacking NPC fleet I'm expecting AI enemy. Otherwise it's not PVE but PVP and that's not what I'm going for with my PVE fitted 1st rate.  Anybody with better turn rate will ass wreck me and capture/sink. Expecially if he have support of another 2-8 AI ships. Where is a fun in that for me? Our Loki captain is not even risking his own ship.. .

When I goes for PVE and being attacked by bunch of enemy players - that's ok - It's what I can always expect, and they risking they own ships as well. But NPC turning in real players is not fair. 

Thanks for creating and developing game! Please consider other use for Loki Runes - possibly as a some kind of ticket to easy acces PVP arena where loki rune owners are fighting against each other 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 ect in some similar BR...  that could be fun for somebody who want's join game just for fast PVP battle. 

 

 

 

 

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On 10/24/2019 at 3:08 PM, admin said:

We are not forcing anyone to attack NPC ships. You pick the targets and their quantity. 

@adminthat's just it, though. The addition of the Loki Rune removes this ability, as a player picking a target no longer means that is target they end up facing. You encourage PVE on the PVP server by chest dropping, missions, etc. So you are, in fact, "forcing" (or at least STRONGLY encouraging) players to attack NPC ships on both servers in order to advance in the game. 

So, I ask you this:
How did the addition of the Loki Rune satisfy these three requirements:   

7 hours ago, admin said:
  1. It must solve a specific problem of the majority or reduce negative outcome for the majority.
  2. It must be beneficial for both new and old players
  3. It must not take anything away that players worked hard to get. 

I would contend it violates #1 by increasing a negative outcome for a majority of players, that it violates #2 by not providing a benefit to new players (increases the change of new players getting surprised by a veteran appearing in an NPC battle), and violates #3 as now players can potentially lose rewards from NPC battles that they have been working hard to earn over the course of the battle.

(I presume you will say removing it now will violate #3, but that is simply a convenient "out" at this point that does not address the actual concerns). 

 

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6 minutes ago, GrubbyZebra said:

@adminthat's just it, though. The addition of the Loki Rune removes this ability, as a player picking a target no longer means that is target they end up facing. You encourage PVE on the PVP server by chest dropping, missions, etc. So you are, in fact, "forcing" (or at least STRONGLY encouraging) players to attack NPC ships on both servers in order to advance in the game. 

So, I ask you this:
How did the addition of the Loki Rune satisfy these three requirements:   

I would contend it violates #1 by increasing a negative outcome for a majority of players, that it violates #2 by not providing a benefit to new players (increases the change of new players getting surprised by a veteran appearing in an NPC battle), and violates #3 as now players can potentially lose rewards from NPC battles that they have been working hard to earn over the course of the battle.

(I presume you will say removing it now will violate #3, but that is simply a convenient "out" at this point that does not address the actual concerns). 

 

Peace server does not have Loki runes, and pvp is an integral part of the war server - You chose the war server and its main selling point is risk. So risk cannot be a negative outcome for war server, more risk is a positive outcome. Losing combat is also an integral part of war server so again not sure why you bring this into the conversation. 

Also please stop with this new player rhetoric and Loki - new players do missions and loki does not work in missions. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Also please stop with this new player rhetoric- new players do missions and loki does not work in missions

@admin, thanks for the response. The additional information is good to know. I'm actually ok with it if that is the case. I had not seen anywhere where that limitation has been made clear.

Edited by GrubbyZebra

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On 11/3/2019 at 1:51 PM, Tommallionus said:

I'm afraid that Loki rune could be another thing which lower population of servers. I already few times barely survived battle against NPC fleet cause of other players taking command on AI ships. 

Devs were quite inspired here: loki is a quick and rather effective improvement of the problem of incompetent on-steroids NPC (which likely requires quite some time and coding to improve). If you are a beginner or you have concern for new players, I understand, but I think you miss the positive sides of loki feature, such as:

  • more diverse and interesting NPC hunting experience (I prefer pvp, but often have no time for long sails and fighting loki is an acceptable "fast food", particularly if you attack groups of NPC) 
  • new players have opportunity to fight against human opponent in hardly any disadvantage (you can after all choose what NPC to attack and in what ship, loki has no chain and no reps; loki get often a partly or pretty damaged ship)
  • finally, loki is a great opportunity for community to train / encourage new players and prepare them for pvp. When I play loki I give a fight to best of my abilities, but I do not finish my opponent. Humbling him/her is a good reward in itself, loosing not much of a pain.  :) 
Edited by Stilgar
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6 hours ago, admin said:

Peace server does not have Loki runes, and pvp is an integral part of the war server - You chose the war server and its main selling point is risk. So risk cannot be a negative outcome for war server, more risk is a positive outcome. Losing combat is also an integral part of war server so again not sure why you bring this into the conversation. 

Also please stop with this new player rhetoric and Loki - new players do missions and loki does not work in missions. 

although i agree with you, i still think that you should remove the bug that makes the Loki rune player turn to Rank 1 in the ai ship. This is an easy way to tell if a player is controlling the AI or not

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@admin please make it so Loki cant escape from battle. I will fight a skull fleet, loki jumps into the skull ship and escapes so I lose my loot. If they escape just let ai take the ship back over or just make it so they can only surrender. 

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On 1/14/2020 at 2:12 AM, Stilgar said:

Devs were quite inspired here: loki is a quick and rather effective improvement of the problem of incompetent on-steroids NPC (which likely requires quite some time and coding to improve). If you are a beginner or you have concern for new players, I understand, but I think you miss the positive sides of loki feature, such as:

  • more diverse and interesting NPC hunting experience (I prefer pvp, but often have no time for long sails and fighting loki is an acceptable "fast food", particularly if you attack groups of NPC) 
  • new players have opportunity to fight against human opponent in hardly any disadvantage (you can after all choose what NPC to attack and in what ship, loki has no chain and no reps; loki get often a partly or pretty damaged ship)
  • finally, loki is a great opportunity for community to train / encourage new players and prepare them for pvp. When I play loki I give a fight to best of my abilities, but I do not finish my opponent. Humbling him/her is a good reward in itself, loosing not much of a pain.  :) 

While I agree with your post, it is incorrect in one thing: Loki do have chain.

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On 1/14/2020 at 12:55 PM, MrOkieDokie said:

@admin please make it so Loki cant escape from battle. I will fight a skull fleet, loki jumps into the skull ship and escapes so I lose my loot. If they escape just let ai take the ship back over or just make it so they can only surrender. 

Escaping is the little victory 😆

Other proposal: make AI switch to chain and try to escape when AI-BR is less then 70 % of the attacker ... haha ... What a drama would that be ... 

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2 hours ago, Earl of Grey said:

Escaping is the little victory 😆

Other proposal: make AI switch to chain and try to escape when AI-BR is less then 70 % of the attacker ... haha ... What a drama would that be ... 

It's not a victory if they get nothing for it. I'm in a battle for an hour then they jump in and immediately escape. Its griefing. Make a loki have to wait 15min before they can escape then if the mechanic must stay. The way it is now makes no sense and is not fun imo.

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On 1/14/2020 at 5:48 AM, GrubbyZebra said:

You encourage PVE on the PVP server by chest dropping, missions, etc. So you are, in fact, "forcing" (or at least STRONGLY encouraging) players to attack NPC

not sure what sort of mission you do, but for me, i get new chest and medals every other day by doing pvp on the PVP server ;)

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55 minutes ago, Durin said:

not sure what sort of mission you do, but for me, i get new chest and medals every other day by doing pvp on the PVP server ;)

You don't get much from PVP of 6th and 7th rates, and really not much from 5th rates, either (which is all I can currently crew), just dubloons (I'm not sure if you get medals from 5th rate PvP as I haven't been involved in any since getting enough crew to engage in them). Therefore, in order to get chests, you must take missions from the admiralty or attack open-world NPC fleets. 

But, since Admin has clarified that Loki won't work in missions, then the argument I initially made is moot, as loki provides materially no different game mechanic than an enemy player jumping into any other OW battle instance. 

Edited by GrubbyZebra

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13 hours ago, MrOkieDokie said:

It's not a victory if they get nothing for it. I'm in a battle for an hour then they jump in and immediately escape. Its griefing. Make a loki have to wait 15min before they can escape then if the mechanic must stay. The way it is now makes no sense and is not fun imo.

Not fun for you, perhaps. But that's literally the point of the Loki rune: troll other players. Running away is a victory for the Loki player, in that sense.

Weird metagaming is weird, what else is new?

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10 hours ago, The Geth said:

Not fun for you, perhaps. But that's literally the point of the Loki rune: troll other players. Running away is a victory for the Loki player, in that sense.

Weird metagaming is weird, what else is new?

That's ridiculous. Games are ment to be fun. Your not going to make much of money if your game isnt enjoyable. It should be beneficial for both parties. Loki should get half exp or something. Right now it's just a troll item. I love this game. I have been a backer for a very long time but that dosen't mean I support half baked mechanics. The loki rune needs work.

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12 minutes ago, MrOkieDokie said:

That's ridiculous. Games are ment to be fun. Your not going to make much of money if your game isnt enjoyable. It should be beneficial for both parties. Loki should get half exp or something. Right now it's just a troll item. I love this game. I have been a backer for a very long time but that dosen't mean I support half baked mechanics. The loki rune needs work.

Agreed in full, but something tells me you're going to have a hard time convincing @admin of that.

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loki is a fun item. The user of the rune risks nothing therefore should gain nothing except fun when he joined a nice battle.

Not sure about the one who is getting jumped. Many times my battles got joined by a loki as his ship was sinking or complete demasted. You can even trigger that by killing the ai slowly. Should i gain more as normal xp for that? In my opinion no. It should stay as it is. A fun item for risk free instant action.

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