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Ruy Lopez

No game for noobs?

No game for noobs?  

101 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the game too difficult for beginners?

    • YES
      68
    • NO
      33


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3 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

KSP is going up in player count, 16% this month, up to 4500+, imagine NA with all those players, it would be awesome.

If only Dev's didn't go so hardcore, didn't use "Risk" and "Adrenaline" as immersion. 

E.g. of beginner game negative effect, teleport fees, 

The application, once you get "establish" there no problem, as @adminhas said and it gets newbies out and about creating pvp content. 

In reality, it only makes it harder for newbies to get "establish" and opens them up to ganking and continuous loss, in both cases leading to less retainment. And to top it off, it has an negligible effect on the end game.

One simple mechanic that has an simple effect but accumulates with everyother little negative effect/mechanic, something @admin doesn't get it, and these are things that cannot be read within statics printouts.They all add up to a negative experience. 

 

You mean Kerbal space program? Its a far more difficult game than this. Difficulty is not a reason players quit. Its playerbase is increasing because KSP2 was announced. Its also a single player game that is extremely mod friendly. 

 

Naval Action is extremely punishing and time sink. It requires a shit ton of time to be competitive. There is nothing easy or hard about being ganked. Thats not what people care about. They care more about the fact that everything is a chore. Some people dont want to invest a few hundred hours to get a 1st rate. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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8 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You mean Kerbal space program? Its a far more difficult game than this. Difficulty is not a reason players quit. Its playerbase is increasing because KSP2 was announced. Its also a single player game that is extremely mod friendly. 

 

Naval Action is extremely punishing and time sink. It requires a shit ton of time to be competitive. There is nothing easy or hard about being ganked. Thats not what people care about. They care more about the fact that everything is a chore. Some people dont want to invest a few hundred hours to get a 1st rate. 

Fully agree.

Over the years I tried hard to give feedback with the goal of reducing the time sinks and the grinding but admin always found a new way to create new content based on more brainless farming (latest ones, port investment, prices for upgrading buildings and rising the BR for ports).

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By turning the game into a matter of great clans, we have become slaves of reals and doubloons to new players and to those lonely players and small clans. Little fun game. Soften the game a bit. 

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6 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

I would say yes, tutorial is great for the actual battle mechanics but there should be missions introducing trade (when it gets fixed eventually because broken as hello kitty right now) and how to make money.

Agreed.  Once you are able to make money the pain of losing ships starts to pass and you begin to learn each time you lose.  Do miss the days when trade goods mean't something and back then getting goods from A to B whilst avoiding attack could be fun in itself.  Now a traders brig is easily replaced so trade runs become boring and ships throwaway.  Think there is some responsibility for experienced players to help newer players but if there is no difficulty there is no pleasure in getting better.

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On 8/30/2019 at 10:27 AM, HachiRoku said:

You mean Kerbal space program? Its a far more difficult game than this. Difficulty is not a reason players quit. Its playerbase is increasing because KSP2 was announced. Its also a single player game that is extremely mod friendly. 

Yes Kerbal space program and it's increasing on the back of an existing playerbase, an establish one. 

Something NA has never sort to build with an easier beginners game, hardcore right from the start, e.g. (some examples) ridiculous high shipyards costs and upgrades, dopey low rewarding kill missions, high ship xp grind etc. etc. etc...

Those and above add to an accumulative effect that handicaps the potential playerbase. And what Dev's can't see in there stats and printouts, is the loss of that "potential". 

Even in that other thread (Frontline system. Success or no) @admin defended the state of pop when the majority of posts were showing concern, its not just about the facts and stats but about the potential, even "concern" is not a fact but still can drain the playerbase (or even just the concern for the lack of action!).

"Potential" is achieved through game design. 

Edited by Guest

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This game is not too difficult for beginners, no more difficult than similar games online such as Eve or No Mans Sky... not to mention a few others. All games in this criteria have a steep learning curve. These games have this learning curve because they are detailed, layered and deep... this game is complex and is therefore difficult for newer players... if we stray from this complexity of combat the game will become like any other inaccurate sailing game online. Remember folks... this game was not intended to be easy to play or learn, those that take the many hours to unlock the secrets of the game will do well, stick with it and level up slowly... play for an hour or so... or half an hour... focus on one... and only one specific ship design... master it before switching to a different one. Play solo if you need to... and learn the art of survival as I have. You will learn so much more from the game. There is more than upgrades and skills here, and many will be blind to the secrets of the game until they strike out on their own solo.

This is advice coming from a weathered solo player... think unconventionally and you will discover unconventional secrets... and prepare yourself... you will lose your ships... always plan... always plot... always have an escape.

Sail safe and sail well.

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If the game were to be made easier for newer players... I would suggest making a safe zone on the PVP server only around a specific free port... would need to be shallow water and a very limited area... could supply missions that would eventually coax a player into the real world of Naval Action IE open world trade. This way a newer player could enjoy learning the game at their pace without danger of attack. Let me say again … a small starting zone... for a safe zone, and a free port for all beginners to start from.

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7 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Yes Kerbal space program and it's increasing on the back of an existing playerbase, an establish one. 

Something NA has never sort to build with an easier beginners game, hardcore right from the start, e.g. (some examples) ridiculous high shipyards costs and upgrades, dopey low rewarding kill missions, high ship xp grind etc. etc. etc...

Those and above add to an accumulative effect that handicaps the potential playerbase. And what Dev's can't see in there stats and printouts, is the loss of that "potential". 

Even in that other thread (STRONG SUGGESTION FOR POPULATION SURVIVAL) @admin defended the state of pop when the majority of posts were showing concern, its not just about the facts and stats but about the potential, even "concern" is not a fact but still can drain the playerbase (or even just the concern for the lack of action!).

"Potential" is achieved through game design. 

You're right but we cannot ignore the fact ksp is a vastly superior game in many ways and I would argue sqaud got lucky with it to a certain extent. Few games reward failure and success the way ksp does. Ksp is arguably one of the best games ever. The level of replayability is huge and with mods limitless. Personally I have 2000 hours and am trying not to be hyped incase ksp2 is a disaster. Unlikely by developer interviews and the fact they get it but still possible. 

Right now space exploration is a very popular subject. It's obviously far more popular than 19th century naval combat. 

Even if the devs made the game more accessible to players it's quite unlikely we will ever have a high player base. Doesn't mean it's pointless to not do it because naval action doesn't need more than 700-1000 players to be playable. Let's also not ignore the fact that most gamers have never heard of it and there is still no professional reviews out yet. I don't know why I'm saying this cause I think you get it anyway. 

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10 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Fully agree.

Over the years I tried hard to give feedback with the goal of reducing the time sinks and the grinding but admin always found a new way to create new content based on more brainless farming (latest ones, port investment, prices for upgrading buildings and rising the BR for ports).

Wasted time: time sinks are there on purpose to sell DLCs. Do you realize it's an intended feature?

This game was much better (more funny and less boring) a couple of years ago, then the "hardcore" (timesink) story begun … and (guess what?) later on DLCs were sold to ease the grind. 

As I wrote in another topic: the game will NOT change, so we can just live with it or leave the game.

Edited by toblerone

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25 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You're right but we cannot ignore the fact ksp is a vastly superior game in many ways and I would argue sqaud got lucky with it to a certain extent. Few games reward failure and success the way ksp does. Ksp is arguably one of the best games ever. The level of replayability is huge and with mods limitless. Personally I have 2000 hours and am trying not to be hyped incase ksp2 is a disaster. Unlikely by developer interviews and the fact they get it but still possible. 

Right now space exploration is a very popular subject. It's obviously far more popular than 19th century naval combat. 

Even if the devs made the game more accessible to players it's quite unlikely we will ever have a high player base. Doesn't mean it's pointless to not do it because naval action doesn't need more than 700-1000 players to be playable. Let's also not ignore the fact that most gamers have never heard of it and there is still no professional reviews out yet. I don't know why I'm saying this cause I think you get it anyway. 

KSP also is not a full loot pvp game

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1 hour ago, Guillaume de Longueheuse said:

What issue?

People grinding on low-levels (tbrigs) and being rewarded massive quantities of upgrades and marks/doubloons for pvp missions.
Clubbing the seals should be heavily discouraged, not rewarded.

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I don't think naval action is too hard for beginners, but it's too hard for them to understand all, and too time consuming to find out by themselves & settle.

Most of the buyers don't expect having to sail for hours looking their screen, neither they expect to find enemy players in wasa or requin jumping their missions as soon as they spend money on anything more than bcutter.

 

What would help:

 

1-Give more crew for the cutter / bcutter (+ maybe a swivels deck or a boarding bonus) = many noobs gets often boarded by ia while stuck with the wind or waiting to loot their enemy.

2-Give everyone free outposts in each freetown (or at least a few like la mona la tortue, shroudcay), so new player can find out faster where it's more interesting for him to play & find action.

3-Create an optional mini roleplay OW  introduction campaign between tutorial & final exams. With Arrow and "how to" in form of a narrator giving you orders & advices : opening the tavern-> get few reals, explain how to choose woods when opening your tuto-reward rattle; buy guns with the reals you earned and equip the rattlesnake => Get a few doublons to buy an upgrade in the admiralty; bis for books; -> get a passenger mission in the screen, return to capital, claim reward, construct a workshop => Receive mats for crafting reps as rewards, craft rhum & repairs, Take combat mission in port + 6/7rate hunt mission, sail out with the rattle, fight find the swords in capital area, fight, if lost, give him back his rattle equiped,if won, receive a sealed bottle, explain how bottles works, explain how the kill counted for the hunt mission,  the enemy ai had a trader in fleet that surrendered immediatly, explain how to capture it and bring it to port, with the trader, go search the bottle (your invisible & can t tag or be taged neither join a port, the narrator telling you to focus on your objective, & explaining you what are ai or enemy players in ow, why you go that fast compared to battle instance), bring back the bottle, explain what you can do with the loot. Explain how to tow a ship then tp to an outpost, give the player a little story there, introduce him with the potential of rvr and so on.. 

This campaign can be paused at any stage. But it's important, the advice book you added is ok but not super attractive for newcomers, if used at all. And you can't rely only on clans players to repeat & explain all those things to every newcomer, there is simply too much to explain.

No need for cutscenes, a simple officer or sailor popping on a corner with texts. Create an atmosphere, some storytelling to point how everything can hold together and make sense. At the end of campaign push the player into trying the master & commander exam. I really believe most of the buyer comes for an age of sail realistic game, not an hardcore eve online, guide them to find out that both can be achieved.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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38 minutes ago, Isaac Le Maire said:

People grinding on low-levels (tbrigs) and being rewarded massive quantities of upgrades and marks/doubloons for pvp missions.
Clubbing the seals should be heavily discouraged, not rewarded.

Agreed. Also its the kind of mistake a seal make once, not twice, no?

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1 hour ago, Isaac Le Maire said:

People grinding on low-levels (tbrigs) and being rewarded massive quantities of upgrades and marks/doubloons for pvp missions.
Clubbing the seals should be heavily discouraged, not rewarded.

I believe the completed 6th rate mission gave less rewards. (Ed Rose at the bottom of that chat.) The bigger rewards appear to be from a completed 5th rate mission: the guy who killed the Pandora. 6th rate PVP is not well rewarded. 

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700+ noobs already left since game released, check graphs. In chat all I see is people complaining that game has no content. You can call me a liar, but just check stat for yourself. Numbers during evenings are around 300 as it used to be pre release. . 

Edited by Audacious
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9 hours ago, LIONOFWALES said:

If the game were to be made easier for newer players... I would suggest making a safe zone on the PVP server only around a specific free port... would need to be shallow water and a very limited area... could supply missions that would eventually coax a player into the real world of Naval Action IE open world trade. This way a newer player could enjoy learning the game at their pace without danger of attack. Let me say again … a small starting zone... for a safe zone, and a free port for all beginners to start from.

This is a great kernel of an idea, was attempted once with the the new player area of the shallows but some of the same type of freaking characters we have now farming noobs were doing it then (I was one of them then) and then it was abandoned.  An alternative for he newby zone would be the chunk of south of the Panama region, in the Pacific with say 40 ports, locked away from everyone else.  people could go, pick a nation and play with soft PVP with cushions for new players that get wrecked, so losing a ship does  not spell doom to start over.  Once they reach a certain rank and achieve various benchmarks (for which they have a checklist available and announced to them).  Once those benchmarks are achieved.  They are sent a letter of Full Commision and will NOW Perform their Endurance test and Final Exam, and then choose their permanent nation.  Their assets are wiped, they are moved into the regular area with several redeemables in addition to the Final Exam.  (such as 1 heavy 5th rate and one 4th rate).  This way they choose their permanent nation after having played the game for a week, few weeks or month depending on their frequency of play.  This would allow the player to tailor their own personal starting in this game. 

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The game is more difficult for some factions. Can be classified as Easy:  UK, Prusia and Russia, moderate USA, France and Netherland, and hard, pirates, polish (????), danes and spanish

This is for now, can change in the future but is a reccomendation to new players.

New players can' t think in  bucentaures or trinis, PB or serious pvp. The target for the first year is well command a frigate, and trade, craft, map, sail, etc. 

the game is confuse because relations faction/clan. I erase borders and only leave clans. More simple, less hardwords

 

Sorry I learn "personal english" sometime write it. 

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5 minutes ago, Dr Yueh said:

/snip

You should have had that damn tooth!  hehehe  Seriously though appreciate your input, it adds to the discussion, people need to hear from players at all levels and skills.  We are a community.

08-dune18.jpg

Edited by Atreides

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7 hours ago, Atreides said:

This issue needs to be addressed

4D5F1DBBB2BBEE6A7D9C7732AD4CADDC760AF6CF

Guy just posted his collection, I do it all the time to make people mad

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I post chest contents often.  Its amusing to see how the RNG has either rewarded you or screwed you over.  The difference in two Gold chests can be astonishing.

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8 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

2-Give everyone free outposts in each freetown (or at least a few like la mona la tortue, shroudcay), so new player can find out faster where it's more interesting for him to play & find action.

This wouldn't make the game easier for new players... It would make it more convenient for existing players. New players don't need any free port for the first 100 hours because they are clubbed around freeports. Players have never had an issue finding their preferred hunting grounds and the reason more freeports is a current discussion is mainly patrols. Something newbs cannot risk because they have NO WAY of being competitive. Just imagine if everyone had freeports. The second a new player undocks some clan will know about it because they have alts camping every freeport. I think adding more ports is pointless anyway because the fundamental problem is with the open world and rvr design. Not the amount of ports. It almost seems to me like you're only saying it so you can get more freeports and are making up a reason for noobs needing freeports. 

The simple fact of the matter is that the core issue is the inventory one. Make combat skill based not setup based. Setup should be important yes but it should not be more important than skill. There is a fine line with that and the devs don't have a good history with fine lines. 

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