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Ed Rose

318 On-Line....Time to worry?

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3 hours ago, rediii said:

Port points doesn't make a lot of sense. If you make a power ranking do it by pvp kills or online members of top 10 clans.

It has to be something people can't easily control or it will be controlled by the players by giving up ports and only taking ports that realy hurt the enemy.

yes   good points

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

funny you say that heth should do some serious RvR. He is - have you been paying attention? saying his opinion is worth less than shit is shitty as well.

 

RvR works for nations with large motivated populations.

The point is to make RvR "work" for smaller populated nations who still want to take part in RvR at a smaller scale.

1. Lower BR ports

2. Change front-line system to attack regional first.

It would be nice if it was the opposite, you can't get the capital unless you owned 1 or more regional ports, Could even raise the price of timers then. And yes BR need adjusted but not sure if there is a way around the screening issue, getting to the port is often the challenge

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2 hours ago, rediii said:

Noone joined denmark when we actually fought russia. Noone wants to switch nation when it means you have to rebuild all shipyards etc.

Noone goes shallows because in shallows you get even more destroyed by numbers.

 

Hethwill, you don't realy play RvR.

@rediii  Spot on.   Switching nations is impossible if you are switching to a lesser nation.    Alliances system based on what you mentioned would work best.

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38 minutes ago, Saryk said:

@Hethwill This is why there is no point.
 

image.png.fc1a839c5db67ebcc5dae29cf128695c.png

 

And the game rewards them for it.

You should be rewarded for losing?

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1 hour ago, Saryk said:

@Hethwill This is why there is no point.
image.thumb.png.c6fbc0490330c5db467f336065c05869.png

image.png.fc1a839c5db67ebcc5dae29cf128695c.png

And the game rewards them for it.

The only good thing is that the enemy rewards are less than if they attacked larger ships. I'm not certain of the percentage, but there is a reward for attacking higher rated ships than your own.

21 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

You should be rewarded for losing?

We should be rewarded for fighting, indeed. A loss already has less reward than a win. Admiralty doesn't give much for insurance. And I think it's a flat insurance no matter how much you have in hold, nor how many mods you have, nor which type of cannon you have.

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7 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Sorry then. Thought fighting was the purpose of the game. Build ships, fight, build more ships, fight even more.

You are right, i don't even play the game properly. I just blow up pixels anyway :) 

Carry on with whining in the forum and doing nothing in the map.

Except when you can't build ships...

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7 hours ago, rediii said:

Every nation has players that want to sail and fight but there is a minimum needed players for that to actually make sense. So the players willing to do so can have the ability to group up with a alliancemechanic.

The situation on the server is the same as with the alliancemechanic anyway just that you now need the forger DLC to switch/join alliance. All pro-russia players go to russia and all against-russia players join dutch at the moment. The other nations are just not significant in RvR

that's just bollocks. we are still many in GB and many will of course stay. and of course we're very significant in rvr. losing half a dozen ports in one week only. lol

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7 hours ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

losing half a dozen ports in one week only. lol

Doesn't that make you not significant because fighting GB is like fighting AI, just more ppl?

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1 hour ago, Saryk said:

Is that a healthy situation for a multiplayer game, for a player to be compared to an AI in terms of significance - not because of individual skill, but because of game design that incentivizes it ?

Tbh it is because of individual skill. Gameskill aswell as softskills.

And yea, gamemechanics dictate how important skill is in the game so you can blame all games for that. It is however a fail to make the game too dependant on skill in my oppinion.

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3 hours ago, rediii said:

Doesn't that make you not significant because fighting GB is like fighting AI, just more ppl?

rvr isn´t only about winning mate. you need a loser too in each battle, right? for your comment on our skills.... sehr, sehr hochmütig wie so oft.

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One of this games problem is to find the players, that want to do pvp. We have the patrolzone, sure, but apart from that the best chance to find other players is in front of the capitals. 

When there are 5 ships waiting, the experienced players will either sail from other ports or will only leave the port with a fleet of equal force or better.

Only the new players try to sail their ships through the enemy lines and are easy prey then.

Now that the numbers are decreasing again, it will be much more difficult to find the pvp battles, so more players will visit the other capitals. Of course some strange people like seal clubbing, since it is so easy, but quite a lot prefer a challenging battle. 

I do not know how this problem can be solved, I would love to have the battle arena back, but won't really solve it.

It would be great, if the devs would show their vision of the game shall look like when finally finished. We might give them some ideas then of how it could be realised. 

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2 hours ago, Saryk said:

My skill at PvPing is not great, not terrible, but I fight and I have fun. 
I would really like to make a coalition to defend my ports, but the game mechanics don't allow for alliances between different nation clans, and clearly all french clans together are barely enough to fight a PB.

Yes, game mechanics dictate the importance of player skill.
The game mechanics dictate that players should hunt and sink low-rank players on low-rate ships, as it is the best return on investment for minimal risk. How much player skill is involved in that ?
Even games perceived as hardcore like Dark Souls have an equivalent level cap for PvP, and skill is way more relevant.

In most games, at least most good games, you can blame yourself for failing, you know what you did wrong, you can learn, strive to improve.
In NA, sure, all of the above apply ; but not all the time. When I get ganked by two frigates while I'm on an undercrewed navy brig : we spawn, my masts are gone within a minute of the fight, I lose. There is nothing I could have done, so I can't have done anything wrong, and can hardly blame myself. Sure, I should know better than sail outside of the minuscule capital area to go to a rank 6 mission... I should indeed stop playing at all if I don't want to be sunk.

And there lies the problem. This current situation pushes people away. You are enjoying yourself clubbing seals ? I guess I could understand. Congratulations ! Keep defending the game as it is, I guess you'll keep having fun while it agonizes lasts. Once it's definitely dead though, you'll have no more seals to club. You seem not to care too much.

what you did wrong? sailing a navybrig. The game starts to be enjoyable at 5th rates. even in shallows

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40 minutes ago, Saryk said:

 but I sailed a Navy Brig to a level 6 combat mission I had just outside my capital area in order to get XP and money to be able to play 5th rates at some point ; and got ganked and sunk.

Had I been a new player, I'd have lost everything ; I could've uninstalled, trash-talked the game in reviews, simply because I didn't even get the chance to get to the part when "it becomes enjoyable".

Come on mate, be serious ... given your example: what you have lost then? Everything? Or a Navybrig ... ah ship thats price you can earn even in a Basic cutter (transporting passengers) in 10 minutes. In most capitals you only need to write in nationchat that you need a ship and get five offers for 6 or 5th rates. If a loss like this makes you Stop playing a game that you basically Like, you defenitly should stay in your mental Hospital to avoid every excitement ...

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1 hour ago, Saryk said:

What you're not considering is that I have neither the money, the crew capacity or the actual ship to sail on a 5th rate.

Sure, it's easy when you have 15 sonic Wasa's waiting on your docks, but I sailed a Navy Brig to a level 6 combat mission I had just outside my capital area in order to get XP and money to be able to play 5th rates at some point ; and got ganked and sunk.
Had I been a new player, I'd have lost everything ; I could've uninstalled, trash-talked the game in reviews, simply because I didn't even get the chance to get to the part when "it becomes enjoyable".

Do the final exam and you can crew a 5th rate.

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8 minutes ago, Saryk said:

Tutorial gives any rewards except the naval clock ?

Boatload of repairs, herc, and rattler notes. And of course instant advancement to Master/Commander crew level...

Edited by Capitalism
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It has become easier. You face two buffed Cerberus at the same time. Your ship is a Surprise. Use what you learned in the demasting exam. Or rage board.

Straight up sinking them works as well but takes more time, patience, repairs and in general a bit more combat skill (managing angles, keeping track of multiple enemies, focusing one side of the enemy while trying to split the received damage on both of your sides to reduce structure damage etc).

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22 minutes ago, Saryk said:

Now I agree it ain't much, and I didn't quit - I actually got my revenge and we sank two other 5th rates about 20 minutes later ; point is not that I lost, it's that they're encouraged by the game to do it, over and over again.
I'm still here because I love the game, someone trying it out could be driven away. All I'm asking for is that new players be given a chance to get to the exciting parts of the game, owning a 5th rate and fighting for thrills.

Thats no logic, mate. Of course they have a chance, they have a big chance ... everyone who actually reached a 5th rate used this chance ... 

Better people learn the risks in small ships than in big ones. You can learn a lot by beeing ganked. There are strategies to decrease the risks. You even need to get used to pvp situations ... remember me sweating and trembling after first pvp-fights not able to aim with calm hand ... You need to learn this, and bettet in small ships than in big .. 

Allthough im a friend of big safezones. My point is i have evenings where i Just dont want to have the Thrill of pvp. Sometimes i Just want to watch my beautiful painted Christian to pump broadsides in a an ai-frigate meanwhile im watching tv ... or other example i only have 30 minutes time to play ... wont work If there is possible pvp ...

Edited by Gilles de Rais
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Probably not a new suggestion, but what about expanding the the zones and have a different BR ratio for battles there.  Allow the nation to reinforce its capital water battles to 2x the foreign power BR and leave it open for 20 minutes.  This would allow even small nations to defend their waters.  And the 2x limit might encourage the braver enemy souls to hunt those waters.  I and friends have had our ass kicked when we had those odds by some of the better players in the game (stands in awe).  The needed ratio might be different but I think it would be a good middle-ground between the "seal-clubbing-is-good-for-the-game" faction and the "invincible-home-waters" positions. 

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On 8/29/2019 at 6:08 AM, Ed Rose said:

i think port bonuses should be removed, its turning people away from the game imo, single players without clans cant get access to the BP's. 

that not entirely true u can always ask a clan to make a ship if u provide the materials urself

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2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

The great drop could have been avoided if devs listened to the legit complaints about port BRs, the dead trading, lack of general balance (ships, nations) and testing (frontlines, port inverstements).

There has been a slow declining is player base since the game got out of EA. Nothing Strange in that. The Numbers we had before in testing, is the Numbers we have now. It is just the pop there is for this game.

Devs are focusing on getting new player in and make them stay. They succed in that and the vets stay, Well pop go up.

Things for new player:

- Free to play version

- Better protection

- Better discription on witch nation to join(Not sure admin really ment it)

But I agree a lot of vets left. Lots of those I used to have fun with is gone, and this time I really think they won’t come back. But as long they belive in the game, and keep it running, Well there will be a smal group of guys playing it.

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The Devs may claim to be trying to aim at retaining its newer players but so far has implemented almost nothing, outside of a tutorial, that would seem to suggest they either don't know, or care what they are doing. The fact remains this is one of the few games, aside from DayZ and its rips, in which players are rewarded for killing noobs and add to that the sheer complexity of the game that is offered to the player with little to no explanation and the vast number of 'noob traps' which could easily confuse, anger and lead to the quick player death of any noob within the first few hours of gameplay.

Those first hours are crucial as it is the deciding moments if or not a new player will make the investment needed to carry on playing. In games like DayZ and Rust if a new player was killed it is balanced out by the fact it could take less than an hour before than new player was fully kitted out with everything they needed to survive. The excitement of digging through the post-apocalyptic wasteland looking for loot was the steak of both games with the PvP being the seasoning. In this game a player kill could destroy months of work, a new player is expected to grind for anywhere up to a year to "git gud" and a kill at such a low level not only destroys stuff they cannot replace, but could set them back to square zero or even into an almost unplayable situation destroying any interest they had in the game.

A game like this, which needs dedication of time, needs to shelter its new players a little, slowly opening up the more intense and brutal areas of the game as they grow in level and allowing them to progress and save that progress without the greatest of risk and without feeling as if any progress they make is instantly destroyed in a situation they could not avoid nor do anything about.

Now I know a lot of people don't agree with the idea of "carebearing" and prefer the attitude that 'Tough love' creates the strongest players, but if you grow apples next to a cliff, in Typhoon season screaming "my apples will be the strongest of all apples" don't be surprised when you have very few apples left at the end. 

 

Honestly I don't think there is much we can do at the moment, the clearest indications are that the developers have realised that this is a dying game and there is little they can do to revive it other than throwing a shitload of money at it. Assets for this game are being used for other game development, as well as being sold on 3d model websites, and I am 90% confident funds generated from DLC are being pushed towards the development of other projects, which is the real reason we came out of early access (using funds from an EA game to fund other projects would violate Steams terms and conditions). Let's not kid ourselves, the last update was about an afternoon worth of coding and its sudden no-warning implementation and just how much its hello kittyed everything up for everyone proves the developers lack the experience and knowledge to operate and develop and open world pvp system.   

 

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