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rediii

Frontline system. Success or not?

Do you like the new frontline system?  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the new frontline system?

    • Yes
      12
    • No (explain in comments)
      105


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1 minute ago, rediii said:

Decreasing BR would still have to result in big battles with around 20 players. If we end up with 10 player PBs we end up with dominating clans:

- BF, HAVOC, RUBLI

No other clan in NA has decent skill, sorry

Sorry but 15.000 BR ports will still require, at least, 20 players.

15.000/25= 600BR per player, which means that you dont have to be Viceadmiral to participate in a port battle.

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Falling online numbers, is it due to fked up RVR or is it due to new player experience?

At what average hours, players are giving up on the game?

what is the spread of leaving players?

%X below 100 hours

%Y between 100-500

%Z between 500-1500

%W more than 1500 hours

RVR must effect some Z and mostly W.

Initial game experience X

————————————

So meaningful data is needed to analyze and solve.

————————————

According to me,

Port bonus needs to be nerfed more. You know they can craft superior ships and you can not (55 point ports !!!), why keep fighting, you have excuse.

Port Battle BR needs to be reduced big time. Give chance to people who can not gather 25 online players + 25 1st rates + many reserve ships and screeners.

More protection to new players, extended capital zone. Bigger enemy ai ships when you go further from coast out of capital zone.

PVE is very difficult for new players, ai bonuses.

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Just now, Intrepido said:

Sorry but 15.000 BR ports will still require, at least, 20 players.

15.000/25= 600BR per player, which means that you dont have to be Viceadmiral to participate in a port battle.

And I didn't talk about any BR numbers. Read first before you write

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, rediii said:

He said he cant grind the dubs. I wrote about dubs.

combat medals, either buy them or go to pvp zones and you get them WAY faster than dubs.

And, which is the price of combat medals? Wont you have to farm lots of reals or dubs to exchange them?

 

About pvp zones, not everyone is a big fan of those. You are imposing a rvr player to go to an area that was thought for players that like arena games.

Edited by Intrepido

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Just now, Intrepido said:

And, which is the price of combat medals? Wont you have to farm lots of reals or dubs to exchange them?

 

About pvp zones, not everyone is a big fan of those. You are imposing a rvr player to go to an area that was thought for players that likes arena games.

Can we please stay on topic? Make your own thread about too expensive ships. I was allways and I'm still for 3rd rates to be the most efficient ship in BR and cost in game

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Just now, Staunberg said:

Proberbly you are right with the frontline system. But with only 1-2 frontline system pr nation, lots of ports would be free, and since very few ports matter, maybe the smaller clan could get some pb’s.

With a flag system they could get pb's. With planned portbattles only coordinated multiflips prevent the pro-teams on showing up. And coordinated multiflips are less possible with frontline system and limited amount of ports to be attacked due to timers etc

 

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

Can we please stay on topic? Make your own thread about too expensive ships. I was allways and I'm still for 3rd rates to be the most efficient ship in BR and cost in game

Sorry about offtopic, but it is all related. At the end, current frontline mechanic asks you to sail first rates for almost everything.

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We talking solo players or team players here ? 

War server expects players to engage in a PvP environment. CMs are awarded for pvp and pve hunts combined.

Stay focused. It is a team game. Sharing is caring. There's no grinding. By participating in the server by doing combat missions the rewards are enough to buy upgrades from the Admiralty than are more or less equivalent to some of the drops. On top of that you will loot enemies, player and AI.

All of this will eventually lead to RvR if the team/clan wants. BR for fleet variety doesn't work. The fleet will be tailored for best "tournament list" and screens will be bigger. So instead of a full fleet of L'Oceans you might end with full fleets of Aggies ( just to remind all of the 4th rate PBs ).

Back to the start. By playing in a team/clan and all sharing achievements, rewards, resource gathering and so forth it becomes a extremely rewarding gameplay experience.

But yeah... not all clans are made equal. Tough luck.

 

- Frontlines -

Range is too big. 3 regions is, in some cases, a quarter of the map almost.

Region control versus Region Capital hopping. Why control the smaller ports when a clan can simply attack only the capitals ? 

 

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Think I've said it a few dozen times, but screening vs a small br PB fleet wouldnt have been a problem if the biggest lineships were so damn easy to get hold of, there is literally No reason to craft a 3rd rate over 1st rate for a port battle (we wont see the 10k pb's) 

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-1st rate hegemony in pb is more a problem than the max 20 000 br.

For balance purpose i think victory marks should be a one time reward for participating in a successfull pb

And make a 1st rate permit costing 20-25 VM, that way for each port you conquer, participants have to mutualise their marks to build one 1st rate, or invest in port (balance port investments VM costs). 

Right now even costly as they are, we can build more 1st rates than we have players able to crew them. Make 1st rate really a nation collective choice & effort you can't replace just by having the biggest population of grinder/farmer, but only via winning pb.

That would put 2nd & 3rd rates where they should be as the main force, and allow more people to participate in RvR.

 

-About AI offensive port battles, admin is talking about them like if they will be lost by the main nation, i find it strange. What if the 1st nation win all his pb against ai ? How offensive ai would be a balancing factor then ?

 

- About frontline, has someone already said, i think it's ok to keep the port behind an high br capital, but the investments should not take place in this exact same port. I mean the capital should be PB focused with fortifications & all, then the main eco / crafting ports should be in the secondary ports.

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1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

The best way to strengthen nations against big ones is through an alliance system among minor/weak nations.

It feels way more natural.

True but a reworked alliance system isn't likely going to happen soon, and it also wouldn't make the 55port point question go away in all cases. Showering stuff on the poor is a stop gap.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

World of tanks even has a patented balancer mechanic (US patent filed in march 2013) to not let you win too much. (War thunder as well). If your win rate goes higher than 55% they start pushing you into unwinnable battles or placing you on the side with extremely low win rates - keeping all players on 50% artificially (most fun). If your win rate goes down below 45% they push you to top of the list and start placing you on teams with high win chance.

But this is a philosophical choice - should we force open or hidden walkers onto players? 

It is a good concept to try and have some sort of balancer to keep things more even, but how to achieve this in this game is more of a problem.

One of the issues I see is that all players are equal value as targets while their skills and abilities may be vastly different. Killing a new inexperienced player nets the same reward as killing the most experienced player in the game, as it is based on the ship you kill and not the player. Why should I get the same PvP reward for killing a new player in a Hercules as I would get for killing Ram Dinark in a Hercules? To balance it I should get more for killing an experienced player and the experienced player killing new players should get very little.

The question is how do you decide a ranking for experience? I would suggest a system of ranking based on kills, the more kills you have in PvP the higher your ranking and each time you get killed your rank drops a bit. This way people that club new players every day have a high ranking with a good K/D ratio and thus earn less for their kills making is less and less worthwhile killing new inexperienced players while at the same time making them more attractive targets to be hunted. Conversely a new inexperienced player who is always being killed becomes a poor target.

It is not a solution for the RvR aspect but at least it may go some ways to giving newer players a chance to not be farmed continuously.  

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It would be fine if it wasn't for the stupidly high BR for all the ports.

Frontlines should have been based on proximity of enemy ports, not just capital ports. Could've had a nice tug of war effect rather than stalemate and/or steamroll.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Which we believe is a good thing because you have some time to gather a defense.

 

Problem is that the smaller ports are completely pointless to defend most of the time as the important port and one worth defending is the capital port.

Nations tend to implode after losing their crafting port so what happens afterwards is inconsequential.

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3 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Problem is that the smaller ports are completely pointless

So-so. Many of the smaller ports are essential for the establishment of the forests and other resources. We can now plant whatever woods we want :)

While the main naval bases ( high points ) are crucial, the smaller ones are far from pointless.

- observation: choice of concentrating everything in a single port, mechanic or player made ? ( all eggs in the same basket )

 

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Isn’t it possible to make randomly-generated “PB ship class  compositions”?  I can’t see it being very hard to give each port a unique BR allotment PER RATE...

ie: “Port of Mantua Harbor allows:”

6-7th: 200 BR

4-5th: 1200 BR

1-3rd: 2500 BR

And so on for different ports?  

Or even tailor them manually if you prefer.  It wouldn’t take long to do them all, honestly.  

Just an idea.  

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An idea to bring the nice instant-pb's of the flagmechanic back would be to implement the following btw:

- Change portbattles to happen instantly when the hostility reaches 100%

- Add another feature in port that costs vic marks/combat medals/dubs each day to get a "next day" portbattle. NOT reals.

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

An idea to bring the nice instant-pb's of the flagmechanic back would be to implement the following btw:

- Change portbattles to happen instantly when the hostility reaches 100%

- Add another feature in port that costs vic marks/combat medals/dubs each day to get a "next day" portbattle. NOT reals.

More grind? 

Exactly what the game is asking for.

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Just now, Intrepido said:

More grind? 

Exactly what the game is asking for.

Exactly. I like your helping comments a lot.

Clans that know their shit and do RvR don't have any issues with the "grind" like it is now. HAVOC is half inactive, still has 300 combat medals and 80k dubs in cwh.

 

And if you have issues with the grind just don't select the option, I dont see the problem?

The result will be that the craftingport would get this feature activated by most clans and the rest wouldn't care and leave it as it is anyway

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Well the only clans that know their shit apparently are BF RUBLI and HAVOC so i guess we'll need a solution for everyone else.

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Just now, Potemkin said:

Well the only clans that know their shit apparently are BF RUBLI and HAVOC so i guess we'll need a solution for everyone else.

REDS know how to eco aswell they are just not good in small balanced group battles

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6 minutes ago, rediii said:

Change portbattles to happen instantly when the hostility reaches 100%

This will only lead to empty port battles. The current game mechanics allow for almost instant port flip for an organised attacker so the defender has no time to prepare. Couple this with the limited number of outposts allowed and limited ship slots and you find that the defender cannot be setup ready in every port to defend. Gone are the days that you could quickly gather a defense fleet when you heard a flag had been pulled, now any hastily assembled force would be cannon fodder for a prepared attacking force, so it would not be worth showing up.

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2 hours ago, o7Captain said:

I think the problem is not only in how the RvR works, but in port investments too. Good example can be France - right now They are holding 2 county capitals - Bridgetown and Pointe-a-Pitre. 

So there are only 2 RvR possibilities how to attack france. Pointe-a-Pitre is only 35 point port so we can say its "useless" port and you gain nothing by conquering it. On the other hand Bridgetown is "good" 45 point port but if you conquer it, you cap the only good french crafting port and you basically kill the nation, which no one want. 

By stating that a 35 point port is rather useless you clearly show how broken the bonus system is. Nerfing all bonuses, books and upgrades next to nothing is the solution. The fun will grow again. We shouldn´t have a game where gear is the dominant factor. From rediii´s post:  My suggestion: rethink multiple repairs... 100% right.

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Lower BR and i can 100% tell you that more groups can and will participate.

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7 minutes ago, Archaos said:

This will only lead to empty port battles. The current game mechanics allow for almost instant port flip for an organised attacker so the defender has no time to prepare. Couple this with the limited number of outposts allowed and limited ship slots and you find that the defender cannot be setup ready in every port to defend. Gone are the days that you could quickly gather a defense fleet when you heard a flag had been pulled, now any hastily assembled force would be cannon fodder for a prepared attacking force, so it would not be worth showing up.

true, forgot about that one.

maybe a hostilitymission pull should cost combat medals and then a message could be sent. This would also allow multiple "flag" pulls against the same port and would avoid fakeflags a bit. 

Setting up the flag could be hostilitymissions of today. Combining both mechanics.

Anyway I doubt we get a change anyway, like admin wrote before

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