PVP WILD FUN For ALL WITH MINIMAL COST

[Atreides]

The 1v1 Zone in the Patrol Zone is empty most of the time, I go capture some AI 5th rates with mediums, throw on 15 hull, 15 rig, and 30 rum on my ship, with another AI capped 5th in fleet and sail into the 1v1 zone and call out my position in Global.  My cost?  a bit of time capping those frigates/belle poules/essex/surprise and putting med chasers.  The cost to me is nil, because I get reps as loot from some from those ships.  Yesterday I sailed over to the La Mona PVP zone and was able to get 2 1v1 battles.  Hard fights both, I was ripping the guts out of my opponent, he in a Carro Trinc, me in a Majogany Blue Frigate I had capped, I messed up a tack and he got me,  I sunk and told him I had reps on board to loot, and would be right back out in my fleet ship if he fancied a rematch.  I do this everyday, people see me spamming global.  It is a lot of fun when I get the fights, don't even care they come in with super duper ships with all the bonuses, I fight as hard as I can, and about 35% of the time my "trash ship" kills a supership.  (Skill beats Gear).  Great fun, cost me almost nothing, and I earn combat marks, had some adrenaline, laughed it up, and a blast with an opponent.  Battle over I snap him a salute for his victory.  Come back out, wash rinse repeat.

I have suggestions, please hear them out because what people need is a reason to fight, have fun, risk getting sunk, maybe make some new friends, help build comradery amongst enemies.

 

1.  ALL AI capped 6th and 5th rates, when you capture them,  have 2 cycles of reps in hold for both hull, rig and 1 cycle rum, and all medium gun decks armed.

2.  The 1v1 zone pop surrounding a free port example: Great Corn, Aves, Guaygauyagar, Shroud, La Mona, Tumbado, with the regular PVP zone in a larger concentric circle around that.  Therefore you sail out of the 1v1 zone INTO the big fleet brawl zone. So -0- risk of getting ganked by a TryHard in a Wasa with you in a Frigate or 6 guys who "gotta smash HURR DURR MY XP(this happens all the time).  Once out of the 1v1 circle, join your friends fleet and look for an enemy fleet to engage together.

3.  At that PVP zone freetown, the shop will have unlimited 6th or 5th rate of the day, designated  Admiralty PVP SHIP.  This will be the same exact ship, with 2 choices of wood, either a bit more armour or speed.  Make ship that when purchased for say 10K reales, comes fully armed and equipped with 2 cycles hull, rig and 1 cycle rum.  To specify you would have a choice Between a Frigate that is Bermuda, or White Oak.  You can sail that ship out to 1v1 someone else and the winner take all, but the loser actually loses very little, except a battle.  In professional sports, the winner wins, and the loser loses, but the loser is not punished financially for losing, he does not have to go back to work grinding away to replace his losses... because he didn't win a contest, he still gets paid very well for being a sportsman, and fighting.

Number 3 provides PVP for ALL, at almost no cost, they spend a tiny amount of coin and gain XP on ships, Damage XP to redeem combat marks for a shiny bauble or mod they want.  They get smashed?  They will say "No bother, this is fun, pop back in and try the faster ship this time, because I suck at tanking and want to try that thing with the sail in reverse to rake."

 

The overarching goal of this game is for people to have fun, exciting battles of skill and daring, the perfect rake, learning to hog you gunports down the second your opponent is heeled too much and give him 12 leaks, the beauty of mastering a ship and playing the sails and wind like a violin, angling a broadside from a super carro trinc.  There are ways to make this facet of the game easily and painlessly available to all.  Having a few 1v1s against that captain of renown like Reverse, Greg, Le Raf Boom, Vernon Merril, Hethwill etc. will go along way to helping people realise the fear of losing should NOT be a motivator, it is the thrill of the fight. 

 

Edited August 24, 2019 by Atreides

[Atreides]

Any input or suggestions for this are more than welcome.  I believe this could fundamentally change people's attitudes regarding going out and getting sunk whilst having fun.

[HachiRoku]

the problem with the 1v1 zones is that you loose your ship to a gank before you get there. The skill gap is also far to high for 1v1s anyway. The more time you invest the more mods and better ships you will have. There are far to many mods in game. By mods I include ship builds and port bonuses. Its all mods. Most online games that are skill dependant will give you all you need to be competitive at the start. Games that reward you stronger items with more play time are always very toxic to newcomers. 

Take Reverse as a player for example. He sails the best of the best most of the time. How can you be competitive against that? Yeah. By not going to the 1v1 patrol. 

 

[Atreides]

You didn't read Number 2, it would be impossible to be ganked unless you leave the inner circle surrounding the freetown as proposed.

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Atreides said:

You didn't read Number 2, it would be impossible to be ganked unless you leave the inner circle surrounding the freetown as proposed.

I did but my main argument is the skill part. I still mentioned it because its currently relevant.

[HachiRoku]

Again, to clarify. It wont change a thing if you give people unlimited free ships. They will just infinitely sink in 1v1 vs far better players with far better mods. When 1v1s were actually fun you could craft any mod in game with little effort. Mods also mattered less since they were only candy. 

[Atreides]

I understand, but if people could learn to not rely on gear so much and loosen up about their precious little ship, they might discover areas of combat available in this game that they quite enjoy, once the fear of loss diminishes.

[Tenet]

Your idea will bring life into the game by allowing new players to try out PvP in a fun tier where there is nothing to lose. 

This will allow them to actually "try again and again and again" as in other PvP games until they improve. 

ACCESSIBILITY is the main problem of PvP in Naval Action. Your idea would be a step to improve access, and so I see no reason not to support it.

Details can be worked out and balanced, the main idea is solid. 

[Raf Van Boom]

I like what you're doing in those PZ zones and I also do think that port bonuses/super mods/gold ships do more harm to the game than good. I think the game would be better off if getting mods was a relatively easy task, sell every single mod that exists for 5 CMs a piece and you would have way more people willing to risk their stuff.

[LegoLarry]

 Good idea .

Edited August 24, 2019 by LegoLarry

[Atreides]

Now if I can get the attention of the powers that be, I spam global with this thread enough and will pester every mod I see in game.

[CrustyJohnson]

10 hours ago, Atreides said:

Now if I can get the attention of the powers that be, I spam global with this thread enough and will pester every mod I see in game.

Start with this: @admin

Also this isn't a combat mechanics topic...it's a suggestion.

[Hethwill]

Moved to correct board

[Je maintiendrai]

The most important message for everyone that plays this game is that ships are replaceable. Get sunk, be mad about it for a while, and get back to it. I agree your suggestions would make the pvp zone more interesting. Good suggestions

[Atreides]

You da man Hethwill.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Atreides

[Archibald McCallum]

As a new player I quite like this idea. it gives us newbies a good space to practice pvp, pick up new new skills, learn how to react to players actions better without the trouble of losing a ship that costs a lot to someone who hasn't put hours and hours into trading or crafting. why wouldn't you do it. lets hope the Devs are swayed 👍

[HachiRoku]

On 8/24/2019 at 3:50 PM, Atreides said:

but if people could learn to not rely on gear so much and loosen up about their precious little ship

this will simply never happen. 

[Atreides]

@admin @Ink

This game's survival RELIES on new blood.  That new blood MUST be entertained and not ground under the heel of the minority toxic players who have caused the collapse of population multiple times since EA release Jan 2016.  I have been there for every crash of population, every bleed off, every ROFL stomping certain nations to dust (guilty of it myself on two occasions) Some things were just the ugly side of human nature, but some of the misery was in the game design, or the mechanics allowed the toxic people to grief players and nations to just log off and uninstall, and spray their ire on Steam, YouTube, Facebook etc. 

There can be growth with this game, but that growth relies on giving new or returning players an easy way to have fun and excitement.  The lost potential is lost, but with some minor changes there can be new potential, new sales, old long lost brothers of the sea return and check out paints and flags and the other DLC.  It can happen, we as a community can help, I will be happy to help, I am making videos to show people how to do things in game, the ships, tacking, stealing the wind etc.  I am figuring out how to put them on Twitch, I have set up a channel named aeomar, nothing on it yet, working on that.  If we are given the tools to make good PVP fights cheap and fun for everyone on the server, word of mouth will drive sales, increase profits, help fund further new content for this game, as well as its VR sequel (my dream).

Thank you in advance for your time reading this.  I have put a great deal of thought into it, and am your disposal to help in any way I can.  o7

 

[Atreides]

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

this will simply never happen. 

You have nothing of value to add to this and are simply taking the piss mate.  Knock it off and go post a funny meme mocking me for trying to help improve this game, not in the mood for your acerbic wit.

 

[Yachteru]

Good Idea!

Ships costs too much and the zones are usually out of the way, cept Tumbardo. Otherwise, I've never found myself conveniently sailing past any patrol zone since they are so out of the way. Maybe except from Kingston to La Tortue? The inconvenience to get there coupled by the costs is one such reasons I avoid them. 

The ships may simply be pixels but they take lots of time for me to get. I'm not going to pick a fight I'd lose over that, the costs put into it is far too great. I could steal an AI to fight but that would, as mentioned, take some time. The AI, tbh, can be quite a bitch to kill, possibly from my lack of skill but certain things still make them less enjoyable to engage with. So in the end, there isn't much to go by except to by. 

This suggession is a good idea so I support it. 

[Captain2Strong]

mods books and port bonus should be deleted tbh

maybe only various woodtypes should stay

Edited August 25, 2019 by Captain2Strong

[HachiRoku]

6 hours ago, Atreides said:

You have nothing of value to add to this and are simply taking the piss mate.  Knock it off and go post a funny meme mocking me for trying to help improve this game, not in the mood for your acerbic wit.

 

Jesus christ man I cannot believe you are taking it personal. There is a difference between ideas to improve the game and changing how human beings behave. And I quote: "If people could learn to not rely on gear so much and loosen up about their precious little ship"

You don't go create an online game with the hope that people all play fair and competitive. Players do not want fair fights. This is especially true in MMOs. There is nothing the devs can do game play wise to change that. If you want the game to be more newcomer friendly you need to remove the massive advantages the experienced players have other than experience. As long as players can gain an advantage they will use it. 

Just imagine if you could unlock a Rifle in battlefield 3 that was 1.5 times stronger than the first Rifle after 50 hours of game play . The Max level players would have a rifle that is 1.5 times stronger and an experience advantage that is even more important also. No new player would want to fight players with max rank because they are simple not competitive enough and just give up.  BF3 gives you imo the best rifles at the very start. That is the AK74 and the M16. With these 2 guns you can be just as competitive as the last rifle(an94) you can unlock. AK74 was arguably the best rifle in game. 

BF3 is not nearly as complex as naval action. Experience is 10 times more important in Naval action as in battlefield yet the best mods, ships, port bonuses and books require a significant amount of play time to be invested. 

You can think of 1000 ideas on how to improve the game for new players and I promise you all 1000 will not work simply because the gap between a player with 500 hours and 2 hours is so massive. The devs are aware of this. They like the videos of reverse seal clubbing 20 newbs with his 5 clan mates with meta ships, mods and 4000 hours more experience. One of the reasons naval action legends did not do so well is because certain "elites" did not have a mod advantage anymore. 

You think Moscalb would start being a shit player if you took all his mods and bonuses? I doubt it so take them away and let skill alone be the sole judge of the battle. Mods should only be different setups to how you want to play in battle. Not bonus on top of bonus that simply increases the skill gab to levels that turn newcomers off. The UI is also a disaster imo. Its far to complex kinda like the roe, mods and game in general. 

[Atreides]

I don't take it personal, I take it on face value, you flitter in like a bird and take a shit on an idea someone has, this time its me, because as the past shows anybody is a good target for your charming approach at persuasion.  You spend time and energy posting on a forum on a game you say you abandoned and don't play anymore.

So if I am reading all that correctly, you think the ideas I present MIGHT work? if super mods and super ships were removed?  Or are you saying it won't work because of differential experience.  Using that logic one would think the only time to buy an MMO is at release, if you didn't do it then...why bother others will be better than you.  That is asinine and you well know it.

This is a business to the devs, you do not run a business on "Certain Elites" You run it on the market, you tweak and adjust based on what customers want, not friends.  If you work on the developing the first group, that is business acumen for a successful company, if you disregard the first group to high five the second, you have a hobby and are pissing away potential financial gains and market share.  My focus on this entire topic is NOT limited to what I want, it is what is healthy for the population of the game, new players, having people race out in boats whenever the call comes, working together, having fun fights, reducing the salt and the bile.  I want to do what I can to help this game survive, that requires money which comes from catering to the market as a whole, and not the opinions of a few "Masters of all they see"

You have said you are bored with this game and don't play anymore, you say that people are trash, it's not worth your time, you can't be bothered anymore and on etc etc...

And yet you come into this carefully thought out proposal and say " You can think of 1000 ideas on how to improve the game for new players and I promise you all 1000 will not work"  You then offer counter suggestions, but then say they won't work.  So therefore you think all is lost, nothing will work, and you are done with this game...  So why are you even on these forums anymore, because the only thing I see is a witty guy that likes to take the piss out of anyone he sees, spending time here to shit on any effort someone is making.  I may well be naive, and your studies of human-social interactions within a competitive framework may be deeper than mine.  But in speaking with you in the past, I sort of doubt it. The framework I approach this with has a positive effect on newer players, whom bring with them other new players and so on (read sales and $)

 

If you think that something else WOULD work, then post it and we can talk about YOUR ideas, but thus far you have added NOTHING OF VALUE to these ideas and have simply swooped in to shit on something, on a forum, of a game, you say you don't care about or play anymore.  If you truly believe the devs will not waver in their " They like the videos of reverse seal clubbing 20 newbs with his 5 clan mates with meta ships, mods and 4000 hours more experience." At the expense of their game's financial survival, why the hell are you even still posting on these boards?  Serious question because when I leave something behind I don't go back and write a tart letter every so often just to remind people I USED to be there and I'm still bitter. and that last snipe at the devs...  " The UI is also a disaster imo. Its far to complex kinda like the roe, mods and game in general. "   LOL, classic Hachi. Dude, you checked out of this game, move one with your life. I will continue to do what I can to help in any way I am able to help make this game viable long term with lots and lots of men willing to get "stuck in" and fight tooth and nail against any opponent, and get their friends to pay money to join them.  I wanted to fully address you this time, but unless you have something to actually ADD to the conversation or propose things yourself for intelligent discussion. I will simply wear a hat from to protect from the bird droppings, and maybe, I will answer your snipes and jabs back in kind.  I am finished with piss takers and really don't care if you think this game is trash and the devs are shit an all that yapping.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Atreides

[CrustyJohnson]

It's not a bad idea but it would be a lot to implement. I'm sure the devs have other things they'd rather work on and honestly I feel like there are a lot of things that take more precedent besides this. PvP Zone isn't perfect, but it provides some fun fights. I

'd actually much prefer a zone that acts as a mini-NA:Legends but using whatever ship you bring in. It simply divides everyone that joins it into two equal teams. I prefer sailing to a queue location over random OW engagements, which are almost always one-sided due to RoE and the large amount of ships.

Maybe even better, group "pick-up" games. I think they would be fun and work thusly. A team of 3/5/10 or whatever number the devs think it should be against another equal size team of equivalent BR.   If you win the round, you get a point. If you lose, you go grab another ship and try again or go do something else. At server reset, the group with the most victorious rounds for that day gets special prizes. I think this could work in very interesting ways. Solo players can simply sail out to the zone and join the list of "pick-up" players. Groups that may be 1 or 2 players short can grab some of these pick-up players or when there are enough pick-up players they are automatically put together More than 1 of these fights can occur at once. There would be a lot of strategy, team composition, etc in this type of set-up. if the BR limit is 1000, do you bring a a 3rd rate, 2 5ths and 2 6ths? maybe 4 5ths? Lots of combinations and strategies, which is always fun!

it's the start of an idea and requires some fleshing out, but I think it would be great to be able to go somewhere on the map and be guaranteed at least a somewhat balance fight. Even PvP zone is rarely balanced outside of 1v1, and 1v1 can be very unbalanced due to individual skill, like Hachi pointed out. 5v5 may erase a little of a new players mistakes and may tone down a very advanced player's skill. Sure, the best players will likely rule the zone, but at least it wouldn't be a gank fest. people like the PvP leaderboards and bragging about how good their clan/nation is. This would give another, more tangible way to see a clan's skill in a fair fight and not their skill in seal clubbing. 

 

[HachiRoku]

16 hours ago, Atreides said:

I don't take it personal, I take it on face value, you flitter in like a bird and take a shit on an idea someone has, this time its me, because as the past shows anybody is a good target for your charming approach at persuasion.  You spend time and energy posting on a forum on a game you say you abandoned and don't play anymore.

So if I am reading all that correctly, you think the ideas I present MIGHT work? if super mods and super ships were removed?  Or are you saying it won't work because of differential experience.  Using that logic one would think the only time to buy an MMO is at release, if you didn't do it then...why bother others will be better than you.  That is asinine and you well know it.

This is a business to the devs, you do not run a business on "Certain Elites" You run it on the market, you tweak and adjust based on what customers want, not friends.  If you work on the developing the first group, that is business acumen for a successful company, if you disregard the first group to high five the second, you have a hobby and are pissing away potential financial gains and market share.  My focus on this entire topic is NOT limited to what I want, it is what is healthy for the population of the game, new players, having people race out in boats whenever the call comes, working together, having fun fights, reducing the salt and the bile.  I want to do what I can to help this game survive, that requires money which comes from catering to the market as a whole, and not the opinions of a few "Masters of all they see"

You have said you are bored with this game and don't play anymore, you say that people are trash, it's not worth your time, you can't be bothered anymore and on etc etc...

And yet you come into this carefully thought out proposal and say " You can think of 1000 ideas on how to improve the game for new players and I promise you all 1000 will not work"  You then offer counter suggestions, but then say they won't work.  So therefore you think all is lost, nothing will work, and you are done with this game...  So why are you even on these forums anymore, because the only thing I see is a witty guy that likes to take the piss out of anyone he sees, spending time here to shit on any effort someone is making.  I may well be naive, and your studies of human-social interactions within a competitive framework may be deeper than mine.  But in speaking with you in the past, I sort of doubt it. The framework I approach this with has a positive effect on newer players, whom bring with them other new players and so on (read sales and $)

 

If you think that something else WOULD work, then post it and we can talk about YOUR ideas, but thus far you have added NOTHING OF VALUE to these ideas and have simply swooped in to shit on something, on a forum, of a game, you say you don't care about or play anymore.  If you truly believe the devs will not waver in their " They like the videos of reverse seal clubbing 20 newbs with his 5 clan mates with meta ships, mods and 4000 hours more experience." At the expense of their game's financial survival, why the hell are you even still posting on these boards?  Serious question because when I leave something behind I don't go back and write a tart letter every so often just to remind people I USED to be there and I'm still bitter. and that last snipe at the devs...  " The UI is also a disaster imo. Its far to complex kinda like the roe, mods and game in general. "   LOL, classic Hachi. Dude, you checked out of this game, move one with your life. I will continue to do what I can to help in any way I am able to help make this game viable long term with lots and lots of men willing to get "stuck in" and fight tooth and nail against any opponent, and get their friends to pay money to join them.  I wanted to fully address you this time, but unless you have something to actually ADD to the conversation or propose things yourself for intelligent discussion. I will simply wear a hat from to protect from the bird droppings, and maybe, I will answer your snipes and jabs back in kind.  I am finished with piss takers and really don't care if you think this game is trash and the devs are shit an all that yapping.

 

You said I had nothing to add to the conversation yet I seem to have wasted alot of energy explaining you to you detail why new players will always avoid patrols and pvp. The inventory advantage is to much. EVE has the same issue. EVE does not have alot of new players if you consider how famous the game is. Everyone loves reading about it. Noone starts playing it because its a grindfest and way to difficult to become competitive. 

You think you're the only person to have ever come up with an idea about patrol zones. People do not like them simply because the game should be an open world sandbox yet there is 0 open world content because there is actually no freeroam content. Patrols are nothing more than a pregame lobby where you sit and wait for the chance of an enemy ship to come fight you. Players that wanted an open world naval action did not want it because of patrols. They wanted it for trading, capturing traders, fighting over land the unpredictability of open world games in general. Patrol zones are exactly the opposite. 

The open world aspect of the game was far better on day 1 of steam release. Back then players actually had to sail places to get goods. Not produce them in ports. There were players that got filthy rich just from hunting traders.  All a new player had to do was buy the cheapest fir fir surprise he could find and go find traders. It was simple. The best mods and ships only required a tiny bit of work and a friend that was level 50 crafter. Blue mods were only 2% worse than yellow ones anyway. You were competitive with shitty items. 

You don't try and make a fundamentally bad mechanic good. You remove it. Nerfing mods yet adding port bonuses is not actually nerfing mods. Its adding more mods that can be stacked. 1 Simple fact about mods is that the second you need to add caps you have to many multipliers. Now you might say that has nothing to do with actual patrols zones but it has to do with the game in general and how welcoming it is for newcomers. Since you are making this topic for the good of new players I am sure you are open to the possibility that its not only the patrol zones that are at fault. You need to look at the broader picture. 
 

You seem to be under the illusion that the devs worry about this games financial survival. The game was already released in 2016. It sold something like 300K copies. Ever wonder why sequels existed?  95% of games released in 2016 are dead just like this.

Battlefield 1 all time peak 250K, now its 25K 

Call Of Duty WW2 all time peak 56K, now its 1,7K

Games loose 90% of their population in the first 6 months and there are certain exceptions to the rule but naval action is not one of them. 

https://store.steampowered.com/stats/

Keep a close eye on these stats. The same games have been on the top 100 postions for the last years. 99% of games die. Once month when some AAA game is released it will be in the top 10 for a day or 2 and then die. 

The devs did not wipe all assets on "release" for gameplay reasons. They did it so the playercount would stay higher for longer. Postponing the inevitable. By December the player base will be at 400 again. Maybe the will make a single player Naval action because if they did we could make content ourselves since I am sure this game is mod friendly. Unity games generally are.