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DreadPirateBob

Russia captures Roseau: the devs have to act aggressively to deal with the population balance

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5 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Trials had no loss and devs even had to implement circle of death to limit running away ( like if running would give them a win... )

Sure, but if you were to guesstimate a ratio of runners in Sea Trials compared to runners in OW?

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10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Fighting Sails ( battle sails ).

?

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2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Sure, but if you were to guesstimate a ratio of runners in Sea Trials compared to runners in OW?

i'd say we had 1 runner in battles of 12 fellas. In OW... in 12 battles there's about 3 running engagements that end in a draw, more or less.

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3 minutes ago, jodgi said:

?

can't be stolen your wind if you go battle sails. There's barely any shadow.

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6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

In OW... in 12 battles there's about 3 running engagements that end in a draw, more or less.

I wouldn't present such uplifting numbers, definitely not from my subjective experience. Even back in 2016 most of my encounters were runners.

 

10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

can't be stolen your wind if you go battle sails. There's barely any shadow.

It can. It's proportional; Less turbulence but also less thrust. In any case it doesn't matter much, potential griefers won't opt for the considerate battle sails setting but rather run around in max wind stealing mode.

Sigh, another thing OW taught me: I have to go full "Screwtape letters" mode. Imagine the deepest chaotic evil mindset and consider it a norm.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

regarding close range brawls
wind shadows and getting stuck with rigging is under consideration.

 Do it !

(but before, priority on alliance or any good idea for RvR)

I also can't wait your announced patch about battle sails.  

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3 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Stellaris? Endless Space?

if not, please do tell - I love my Sci-Fi strategy

empires at war, and dawn of war series

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On 9/4/2019 at 2:18 PM, admin said:

And he got that by doing what? ? Are you suggesting he got the port bonuses and 5/5 ships by alt farming?

By doing game 'work', something that only few no-lifers will do.

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1 hour ago, Raf Van Boom said:

By doing game 'work', something that only few no-lifers will do.

He admires too much those no-lifers to realize that his creation catters only this type of players, hence the loss of population (-700 pop since release, only 10 weeks ago).

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On 8/21/2019 at 4:55 PM, LucioMaximo said:

DreadPirateBob is right, balance has to come or it will kill the game. 

"Eve Online is for old dudes who cant play anything beside cookie clicker type of games. Get real" 

This really just shows how deluded you are.

 

people been sayin russia been killin that game for over a year

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, RubyRose said:

people been sayin russia been killin that game for over a year

This forum was always overoptimistic! ;)

Russia won't kill the game, but unbalanced features can do it. Sooner or later, another nation will takeover, but this won't change so much things. A bunch of players will move to the new dominating nation, previous players of this nation will experiment boring and the patrol zone will stop being a Russian Only Zone, switching to another flag. Nothing fundamental there. 

Edited by Aquillas

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, RubyRose said:

people been sayin russia been killin that game for over a year

but actually, it's their noobiness and cowardness which is killing the game
and the grind
and the bunch of flaws
and the price of the game
russia is ok I can play for any nation I want

Edited by Captain2Strong
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On 9/5/2019 at 4:05 PM, jodgi said:

Cool! I'd be more comfortable with calling it turbulence but I can keep the OCD in check. :P

mountain_eddies.png

Depending on the mountain in question it can extend quite a way out:

rotor_cloud.png

Ha, because you know about waves behind mountains, i guess you are a Glider Pilot in RL... :) 

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On 9/5/2019 at 6:30 AM, admin said:

regarding close range brawls
wind shadows and getting stuck with rigging is under consideration.

I thought I was a great candidate to buy this game, because as well as reading a lot of naval history from the Age of Sail, I have been an active one-design sailboat racer for over 20 years.

But the absence of wind shadow in this game really killed it for me, and I would not buy the game unless you decide to add this feature.

Since real racing sailors don't use guns 😀, and we don't want to crash into our opponents, we attack each other with different types of wind shadow all the time. 

It's an absolutely crucial tactical element of real-life sailing battles, whether they take place in 2019 or in 1776.

And yes, it can screw up "friendlies" in real life (ie. team racing) and I'm sure in the Naval Action game if implemented.  But that just means you have to become a better sailor both in real life and in game, to avoid inflicting turbulence or to avoid falling within it.

Note that when racing to an upwind objective, a sailboat can interfere with other sailboats' wind both to leeward (ie. the obvious "blanket" straight downwind) and also about a boat length to windward (the less obvious "backwind zone" that stretches to windward and aft).  This leads to a common racing tactic upwind, where a port-tack boat that cannot quite cross ahead of a starboard-tack boat, will instead tack over to starboard at the last second.  That puts them ahead but to leeward of their enemy.  That's called "lee-bowing" your enemy, and if you do it correctly you see the guy behind you and to windward start sinking downwards into your wake, and then below your wake, and then finally into your blanket zone, and... THEY'RE FLUSHED.

This would be great to incorporate into the Naval Action game.

Have a look at other sailboat racing video games, like Virtual Skipper or Virtual Regatta Inshore, to get an idea of how wind shadow can be effectively weaponized and incorporated into Naval Action.

 

1340331878.jpg

Another wind issue which would be nice to see in Naval Action would be the effect of wind shifts on the fleet. 

I'm not sure if that's currently present in Naval Action, but it plays a huge role in sailboat racing, and can place some boats hundreds of meters closer to an objective than others in the blink of an eye.  If you have been watching and timing the wind shifts, and you can estimate whether they are predictably oscillating or else progressive in the same direction, then you can get your boat to the favored side of the course first, relative to the rest of the fleet.  This is the concept of "leverage" and "ladder rungs", as discussed by racers.

Is the effect of wind shift modelled in Naval Action, and if not, would you consider it?

Check out this YouTube video explaining the concept of "ladder rungs" when the wind shifts on the fleet:

 

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I think there are several other issues that should be addressed before a new aspect is added to further compound current issues.

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On 9/4/2019 at 3:33 AM, admin said:

nice idea
1,000,000 DB cost to switch to OP nation, 0 to small nation
Its like buying a passport. Some nations will have a free passport (if you sneak in) and some nations will have it very expensive due to strict immigration policy.

Additional idea to naturally control expansions is to have national manpower.
Crew right now comes from air. And i think it should not.

More manpower = more cost and food required to maintain
If your nation has 50% of players only ship you can get (due to lack of free manpower) is the frigate or you have to ask someone to lend you 800 sailors (who each eat 1 ton of provision per game month and needs 1 gold db salary per month).
To provide some protection 100 crew is free for all, but all crew above comes from national manpower

  • if you nation has 10 players and 10000 manpower they can sail 10 first rates
  • If you nation has 500 players - you have bigger manpower - but not 50 bigger. Enough Field 10-20 first rates the rest will have to sail in frigates. Crew becomes a resource like guns (but will be expendable) making large countries vulnerable in case of fast manpower loss.

This will also give incentives for  skilled players to move to smaller nations because large nations will lose more manpower in general due to wide variety of skill levels.

This could become a natural balancing force.

When will this happen pls??

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On 9/4/2019 at 9:33 AM, admin said:

nice idea
1,000,000 DB cost to switch to OP nation, 0 to small nation
Its like buying a passport. Some nations will have a free passport (if you sneak in) and some nations will have it very expensive due to strict immigration policy.

Additional idea to naturally control expansions is to have national manpower.
Crew right now comes from air. And i think it should not.

More manpower = more cost and food required to maintain
If your nation has 50% of players only ship you can get (due to lack of free manpower) is the frigate or you have to ask someone to lend you 800 sailors (who each eat 1 ton of provision per game month and needs 1 gold db salary per month).
To provide some protection 100 crew is free for all, but all crew above comes from national manpower

  • if you nation has 10 players and 10000 manpower they can sail 10 first rates
  • If you nation has 500 players - you have bigger manpower - but not 50 bigger. Enough Field 10-20 first rates the rest will have to sail in frigates. Crew becomes a resource like guns (but will be expendable) making large countries vulnerable in case of fast manpower loss.

This will also give incentives for  skilled players to move to smaller nations because large nations will lose more manpower in general due to wide variety of skill levels.

This could become a natural balancing force.

+1

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On 9/4/2019 at 9:33 AM, admin said:

nice idea
1,000,000 DB cost to switch to OP nation, 0 to small nation
Its like buying a passport. Some nations will have a free passport (if you sneak in) and some nations will have it very expensive due to strict immigration policy.

Additional idea to naturally control expansions is to have national manpower.
Crew right now comes from air. And i think it should not.

More manpower = more cost and food required to maintain
If your nation has 50% of players only ship you can get (due to lack of free manpower) is the frigate or you have to ask someone to lend you 800 sailors (who each eat 1 ton of provision per game month and needs 1 gold db salary per month).
To provide some protection 100 crew is free for all, but all crew above comes from national manpower

  • if you nation has 10 players and 10000 manpower they can sail 10 first rates
  • If you nation has 500 players - you have bigger manpower - but not 50 bigger. Enough Field 10-20 first rates the rest will have to sail in frigates. Crew becomes a resource like guns (but will be expendable) making large countries vulnerable in case of fast manpower loss.

This will also give incentives for  skilled players to move to smaller nations because large nations will lose more manpower in general due to wide variety of skill levels.

This could become a natural balancing force.

totally disagree, please stop making experiments like this. This idea will never balance the game because as long as RvR exists, the game cannot be balanced because there will always be a powerful faction than the rest. Ideas like that for new players are not nice, because they will not to be able to join factions where there are more veterans players, and will have to accumulate in another different faction, and that will unbalance the game again. Everything that is said by many players to rebalance the game is really just to warm the Russian faction, not for rebalancing.

If you want to rebalance the game a simple way is to make the RvR as something secondary, generating capital areas for all factions with an unconquerable port of 55 points for each. An idea for this would be to return to pvp rewards as combat medals, only obtainable in pvp and patrols and some missions. These medals could be used to activate the crafting points of the capital port every time you make a ship. For example, crafting a 6-7th needs 1CM for every 5 points, a 5-4 would need 2.5 CM for every 5 points and a 1-3th would need 1CM for every point. Do you want a first rate with the 55 port points? You have to spend on it 55 combat medals. do you want a niagara with 55 port points bonuses, you need to spend 11CM on it

 
With a system like this there is no possible imbalance, no matter what ports each faction has. To make the RvR interesting, distribute resources for upgrades in neutral ports, and grant rewards for having lord protectors, turning victory marks into something useful, for example allowing them to be used in boat crafting instead of CM, to access port bonuses.
 

 

Edited by Despe
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14 hours ago, Despe said:

totally disagree, please stop making experiments like this. This idea will never balance the game because as long as RvR exists, the game cannot be balanced because there will always be a powerful faction than the rest. Ideas like that for new players are not nice, because they will not to be able to join factions where there are more veterans players, and will have to accumulate in another different faction, and that will unbalance the game again. Everything that is said by many players to rebalance the game is really just to warm the Russian faction, not for rebalancing.

The admin never said new players cannot join strong faction, only that having big crews will be more difficult to  help balance against smaller nation. (strong factoin will have more captains but less crew available between them, small nations will have less captains but a bigger amount of crew available per captain. Also possible that bigger nation can have more crew but price will be a bit more expensive to pay for more conscripts )

 

Russian faction will loose alot of power when Chinese faction added to game so we have that to look forward to.

 

 

Edited by Chromey
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6 hours ago, Chromey said:

The admin never said new players cannot join strong faction,

yes, but if u have limits in crew when you join in powerful factions you have less interest to do it, so probably the new player will prefer one weak faction. Is for that i think that this sistem proposed by admin it will be not effective. I insist, imho while RvR with actual rules exists, game is unbalaceable.

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well at the other hand, whats the goal anyway?

if we balance it to death, no one ever can win Map Domination, which is the goal anyway? or not?

 

so if map domination is the goal Russian just is the number one and wins the game, congrats good job and and. 

 

if not whats the goal of this game? i am not sure anymore after i read alot in this forum! 😉 Rom wanted to conquer all, they did (almost)

 

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13 hours ago, Dread2005 said:

well at the other hand, whats the goal anyway?

if we balance it to death, no one ever can win Map Domination, which is the goal anyway? or not?

 

so if map domination is the goal Russian just is the number one and wins the game, congrats good job and and. 

 

if not whats the goal of this game? i am not sure anymore after i read alot in this forum! 😉 Rom wanted to conquer all, they did (almost)

 

Do you WANT another reset comrade???

 

@ despe

if the devs dont do something to help balance this game then it WILL DIE.

Edited by Chromey

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On 10/16/2019 at 9:36 AM, Despe said:

totally disagree, please stop making experiments like this. This idea will never balance the game because as long as RvR exists, the game cannot be balanced because there will always be a powerful faction than the rest. Ideas like that for new players are not nice, because they will not to be able to join factions where there are more veterans players, and will have to accumulate in another different faction, and that will unbalance the game again. Everything that is said by many players to rebalance the game is really just to warm the Russian faction, not for rebalancing.

If you want to rebalance the game a simple way is to make the RvR as something secondary, generating capital areas for all factions with an unconquerable port of 55 points for each. An idea for this would be to return to pvp rewards as combat medals, only obtainable in pvp and patrols and some missions. These medals could be used to activate the crafting points of the capital port every time you make a ship. For example, crafting a 6-7th needs 1CM for every 5 points, a 5-4 would need 2.5 CM for every 5 points and a 1-3th would need 1CM for every point. Do you want a first rate with the 55 port points? You have to spend on it 55 combat medals. do you want a niagara with 55 port points bonuses, you need to spend 11CM on it

 
With a system like this there is no possible imbalance, no matter what ports each faction has. To make the RvR interesting, distribute resources for upgrades in neutral ports, and grant rewards for having lord protectors, turning victory marks into something useful, for example allowing them to be used in boat crafting instead of CM, to access port bonuses.
 

 

And this idea will further empower pvp players to be able to go after the solo, casual, and pve players like a bull in a china shop. PVP players will gain access to more powerful ships and the casual, solo, NEW players will become fodder for the accumulation of combat medals. Want a reason to increase the amount of seal clubbing? That is exactly what your idea will promote. Another VERY one sided idea that benefits a very specific group instead of the server.

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17 hours ago, Despe said:

yes, but if u have limits in crew when you join in powerful factions you have less interest to do it, so probably the new player will prefer one weak faction. Is for that i think that this sistem proposed by admin it will be not effective. I insist, imho while RvR with actual rules exists, game is unbalaceable.

that is actually the point though, not only for new players, but for veterans as well to try to give a reason to choose a nation that has less player population. Your suggestion only empowers the already empowered pvp players that will further as mention earlier farm on casuals. The crew thing is equal regarding if you are a veteran or a new player therefore that decision is balanced.

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