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JG14_Cuzn

Mast Sniping

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on the other hand it's nice when you have someone aiming for masts the whole battle while you attack their hull, then when they realize they can't demast you it's too late. ;)

 

...I still feel like mast thickness should generally be a lot higher and if you want to demast someone, you first need to lower their structure a bit.

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I just feel like you should be able to see the damage like you can your hull. There's no telling how well your masts will hold up. I notice when I'm shooting high masts I tend to fall just up to the main sail, on ships with only 3 tiers of masts this means I'm not able to peel off the weakest points of the masts at range (where ball should be most effective)

Ball in my opinion should be most effective at chipping off the royal and topgallent masts posts, and less effective at blowing way the entire masts from the base just above the deck. Where full demasting from the root should happen is when structural damage is taken, either from the bow, the stern, or focused through the side, mainly the former two.
 

Edited by Slim McSauce
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Chain needs to do more than just sail damage. Chain should also damage masts as chain often broke rigging which in turn damaged masts. I'm not saying chain should do a lot of mast damage, but some.

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1 minute ago, RepairyMcRepairous said:

I guess someones salty they lost a mast.

na cuz... didnt affect me... just was watching some streams.   Now back to your troll cave ;)

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a majority of mechanics aren't completely realistic, its a game, you want to take out an element of the game out because:

3 minutes ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

All semantics

 

besides you really think devs will change mehanics now, when they wont even change port BR.

Edited by RepairyMcRepairous
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1 hour ago, Koveras said:

The accuracy of the guns has nothing to do with historical data. From the battle of Helgoland, a skirmish between the danish frigates "Jylland", "Niels Juel" and the corvette "Heimdal" vs. the austrian frigattes "Radetzky" and "Scwarzenberg", along with the gunboats "Bassilisk" and "Blitz" and the steamer "Adler": The danish frigate "Jylland", being the front pursuant of the austo-prussian squadron, fired more than 400 shots and less than a quarter of those managed to hit the targets hull. Whenever we fire a broadside ingame we hit with 90% of the balls allowing laseraccuracy sniping of the masts.

the aiming sector of the cannons are to big and the horizontal aim of the cannons are moving way to fast imo, this makes it really easy to last second choose where to fire instead of having to turn the ship in the right direction where the cannons are aiming.

Imagine if the cannons were locked 90* off the side and the only thing you could do was aiming up and down, you could aim left/right while reloading (simulating pushing cannon forward) aswell as changing between locked/unlocked/100m/250m only when the cannon was loading and when loaded could only fire, aim up/down and choose between bow/stern to stern/bow, random.

This would get things more interesting

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I have Zero issues with Broadsides fired at masts and taking them down... this I feel simulates the real life issues of rigging damage etc.     

it's the single shot, sniper aiming that should be removed.

I know it's not going anywhere...and i know you can use mod's to counter this... but's it's just bullshit.   

Also it doesn't help that Admin has Mast sniping as part of the tutorial  😂   

 

OK.. Rant over :)

Edited by JG14_Cuzn
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It is a server side issue as well, coded into the game and battle.  The best mast snipers have the lowest ping, you can just watch their streams/you tube video.  This decision was made long ago.  Don't have great ping, you get nerfed ability to do this very well.  That is the game, and I seriously don't see them considering taking away another bonus to the CORE PLAYERS. 

If you disagree, then I challenge someone to put up a split screen 1v1 RUNNING battle with the ping difference being that much, and see the success rate. Not on skill, not on practice, not on anything remotely involved with the players, but a total lack of coding consideration taking into account for people on the other 90% of the planet.

 

Edited by Atreides
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58 minutes ago, Atreides said:

The best mast snipers have the lowest ping

@SeaWolf_

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1 hour ago, Atreides said:

It is a server side issue as well, coded into the game and battle.  The best mast snipers have the lowest ping, you can just watch their streams/you tube video.  This decision was made long ago.  Don't have great ping, you get nerfed ability to do this very well.  That is the game, and I seriously don't see them considering taking away another bonus to the CORE PLAYERS. 

If you disagree, then I challenge someone to put up a split screen 1v1 RUNNING battle with the ping difference being that much, and see the success rate. Not on skill, not on practice, not on anything remotely involved with the players, but a total lack of coding consideration taking into account for people on the other 90% of the planet.

 

Ping doesn't effect skill in naval action because it is slow paced and 174-190ms ping is not enough for the other ship to "dodge" the shots. This game is very slow paced and twitch shooting or aiming is not needed. I get between 174-190ping and can still demast and snipe just fine even against other snipers in the EU like Hachi and TommyShelby.

What really messes up sniping is if you have very jumpy ping. like 150>350>234>90>300. that will screw anyone up. constant ping is the most important thing so you will learn how to lead the shots correctly.

Edited by SeaWolf_
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7 minutes ago, SeaWolf_ said:

Ping doesn't effect skill in naval action because it is slow paced and 174-190ms ping is not enough for the other ship to "dodge" the shots. This game is very slow paced and twitch shooting or aiming is not needed. I get between 174-190ping and can still demast and snipe just fine even against other snipers in the EU like Hachi and TommyShelby.

image.thumb.png.3870d42c582b88289904085857ff43e0.png

we might be both snipers yes but there is a considerable amount of a skill gap between us two. I will rephrase you sentence for you.  

"I get between 174-190ping and can still demast and snipe just fine even against other snipers in the EU like Hachi and Jesus."

All jokes aside Masts have never worked and assuming there still are thickness mods ingame it is still broken. If mods get strong enough to deny the enemy a tactical option without them visually seeing it, it removes all skill and relies only on chance. If buffed masts were visual we would know how to adapt so it would be fair. Even a suprise should be able to dismast a trinco imo. It should all be hp based. That might be hard to do with the damage model and penetration of cannons so what I think would work best if you had separate values for masts. This way you can keep dismasting and Armour damage separate so its easier for balance. Anyway it doesn't matter to me since I am just done with this game. Not with its design but I have played 4000 hours and am honestly just sick off it. Some games I stop playing after 10 hours, some after 100 and the ones I love for 1000 hours. Everything gets boring after awhile and Naval action is no exception. 

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2 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

I have Zero issues with Broadsides fired at masts and taking them down... this I feel simulates the real life issues of rigging damage etc.     

it's the single shot, sniper aiming that should be removed.

Don't think of it as "sniping." Think of it as a skilled gun captain aiming for the rigging of the enemy ships. We don't have rigging damage in NA, so the only way to make a mast fall is to hit the mast hitboxes. We don't have gun crews that can carefully aim individual cannons at these hitboxes, so we (the captains) have to do it ourselves. 

IRL, you'd shoot chainshot or even ball into the rigging to cut shrouds, stays, etc. Do enough damage and the force from the sails will cause the masts to topple. If a few shots clip the mast then so much the better (pine masts don't bounce cannonballs). Even destroying the chainplates on the hull could make a mast fall. None of this damage is modeled in Naval Action. We make do with simple hitboxes and having to aim cannons ourselves to hit them.

We don't have sailing masters turning our sails for us to tack, we don't have marines shooting from the tops, and we certainly don't have competent gun captains aiming shots into the rigging. This is why we single-shot 'snipe' masts.

 

Seawolf is right, ping has nothing to do with it, so long as you have stable ping. You get used to the lag. When PvP2 was merged into PvP1 in 2018, I went from 30ms ping to 130ms. It took me a few hour's practice to reliably hit masts again. 

Sorry to burst bubbles, but 'git gud' applies here.

 

Side note that I spam every time demasting comes up:

Balance masts with high HP, and thickness that allows the largest caliber carried to pen out to 250-300m. Remove mast thickness mods, and instead have the mods buff HP by meaningful amounts (like 50-200% buffs, not the laughable 20% buffs that do almost nothing).

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Here's what I think. Players should have limited information about each of their own masts, perhaps a dots or squares on the damage model with white squares meaning minimal damage, yellow moderate damage, and red critical damage.

Example undamaged:

2025155066_NAMastExampleundamaged.png.5339471b82a1e70edbecc00ce4b2a0a3.png

Example heavily damaged main mast.:

504723327_NAmastexampledamaged.png.b957f8c959ea8b581a5485a5bdb72a86.png

Then have mast failure based off of a combination of mast health, rig/sail health, and the force exerted on the masts from sails.

For instance, each time a mast takes a hit from a cannonball, there is a random chance the mast falls based on the above factors. At minimal mast and rig damage and full sails the chance would be zero, with moderate damage and less sails set the chance would also be zero . When masts start getting hit while lots of sails are set or they are already very heavily damaged, then the likelihood of demasting would be become significant. Heavily damaged masts with weakened rigging support taking fire from large cannonballs while under full sails stress would topple quickly.

This would give meaning to sail settings that are currently almost never changed in battle: Any captain worth their salt will handle yards and de-power jibs instead of raising sails in 99% of situations currently. With this suggested mechanic there would be a risk and a reward to doing so, extra agility and speed at the risk of losing a mast to an sudden well aimed broadside. It would also make "mast sniping" less effective because once a player sees that they are being sniped they can lower sails to battle sails where the requirements to actually down a mast would be extremely high.

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Anyone with stable ping can mast snipe, there is no secrets to it, git gud?. It's a crutch and while hull damage can be mitigated by  angling your ship properly this stupidity has no counter other than other equally stupids mods (mast condoms).

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1 hour ago, Raf Van Boom said:

Anyone with SKILLZ AND  stable ping can mast snipe, there is no secrets to it, git gud?. It's a crutch and while hull damage can be mitigated by  angling your ship properly this stupidity has no counter other than other equally stupids mods (mast condoms).

I fixed

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7 hours ago, Raf Van Boom said:

Anyone with stable ping can mast snipe, there is no secrets to it, git gud?. It's a crutch and while hull damage can be mitigated by  angling your ship properly this stupidity has no counter other than other equally stupids mods (mast condoms).

Rep management, with experience learn when to withdrawal, no condom required. 

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Dismasting is too easy. I would only allow when side armour is down to 50% and/or rigging damage about 60%.

Why should a mast fall when all stabilising rope are still in place?

I like the idea of having a connection to the number of sails set. Still I think the hit boxes for masts are too big.

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7 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

Why should a mast fall when all stabilising rope are still in place?

because the mast itself can get damaged!!!

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