DLC Ships and Port Bonuses - Pay to Win

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Tenet said:

Pay to Win = being able to pay for a DLC that provides tangible advantages in combat instances and open-world PvP.

To @admin too, I would like an DLC to transfer my peace server character from that peace server to the war server, lock-stock and barrel.

That is to wipe/overwrite/replace my war server character with my fully unlocked rank, all the ships unlocked knowledge slots I've grinded out, all perk unlocks slots and all and any unlocked abilities I've have grinded out/gain thus far with my peace server character .

I would pay quite handsomely for it too, and I'll bet a lot of others would too.

So I can start on the war server at the top with full battle perks and start right away adding to pvp content.

And I would buy the other DLCs to make it work for me too. 😊

 

PS, also new DLCs like shipyard and forge starter packs.

 

Edited July 20, 2019 by Guest

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Or devs could save you the cost of a DLC, just bin the hippie server and move everyone across to PVP.  

Edited July 20, 2019 by Mad Dog Morgan

[o Barão]

8 hours ago, Tenet said:

Excellent. Threedecks does list crew as 245. Was that crew number the same regardless of missions and voyage length? Could a Xebec be used in the ocean, away from coastal waters?

The model you linked doesn't show anything about the bow chasers (and seems less detailed than the one I linked). The kit only includes 24 brass pieces - though I already conceded there seem to be two gun ports on the stern (masked by circular designs). The other circular openings on the front, the black railing, are the same as the other railing on the ship. It's just a railing. I want to see evidence of guns, and serious chasers, not just swivels. 

 

1- The same applies to all ships in game. 245 is the official number and that is what should be used.

About ocean travelling. The requin was made to fight Algerian pirates in the Mediterranean Sea, however there another xebecs crafted by the Spanish in carribean.

2 -those gun ports in the bow are exactly that. Gun port for cannons. IDK what you are trying to achieve here. The requin is not  the monster that it was when it was release, it is one trick pony. So you have a better picture, I am respawning a requin every day in the hope I can get one f/f very fast sailing 4 with the hope I can finally have some opportunities chasing guys downwind, and of course I would need to expend some expensive upgrades to buff the speed. Now atm against players that don't know the ships sailing profile i agree it can be deadly, but in the end it is one trick pony.

Edited July 20, 2019 by no one

[Jan van Santen]

Before i call DLC ships with port boni p2w, i'd still like my question answered: will the same ship bought for cm from admiralty as note get port boni on conversion ?

 

[Eyesore]

How about captured ai-ships with portboni?

Same reasoning applies as to the dlc-ships, the ai is buffed anyway, so why not compensate?

Atleast i'd have played the game to get some better stuff?

[James Thomson]

Just give captial region ports some random Port bonuses too.

[Hethwill]

59 minutes ago, James Thomson said:

Just give captial region ports some random Port bonuses too.

Regional capital ports will have bonuses IF owner invests. ( conquest and investments are tied together )

Or did i interpret wrong ?

 

8 hours ago, Tenet said:

Could a Xebec be used in the ocean, away from coastal waters?

Yes. They are recorded to even raid Iceland. It is all about logistics, and in all honesty, fresh water is most fundamental of all. All vessels, no matter what size would make port or anchor at shore to supply with fresh water. But you are right, the primary task for xebecs was immediate, close to home. But exceptions prove that nothing is impossible.

Realism only when it fits the argument ? C'mon, we know better than this.

[Simon Cadete]

Tenet don’t get me wrong but it just seems that you have way too much free time on your hands to post these well researched posts and the comment a million times. Anyway o7

[James Thomson]

8 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Regional capital ports will have bonuses IF owner invests. ( conquest and investments are tied together )

Or did i interpret wrong ?

 

Yes. They are recorded to even raid Iceland. It is all about logistics, and in all honesty, fresh water is most fundamental of all. All vessels, no matter what size would make port or anchor at shore to supply with fresh water. But you are right, the primary task for xebecs was immediate, close to home. But exceptions prove that nothing is impossible.

Realism only when it fits the argument ? C'mon, we know better than this.

Yes, if redeemable ships have PBs then should nation capital build ships have too. And Admirality ships. At this point bonuses being so OP. Every ships should have some.

Redeemable ships already have superior advantage as being ship you can spawn anywhere, now them having PBs too i dont see why other ships shouldnt have em too.

[Tenet]

12 hours ago, no one said:

2 -those gun ports in the bow are exactly that. Gun port for cannons. 

Proof? The same "gun ports" appear on a railing at the front of the captain's deck, and there are no guns there (stern chasers look out from below the aft deck, one level up).

Show me where the Bow has any room for guns. The Stern has an entire deck, and they only fit 2 guns there.

Edited July 20, 2019 by Tenet

[o Barão]

28 minutes ago, Tenet said:

Proof? The same "gun ports" appear on a railing at the front of the captain's deck, and there are no guns there (stern chasers look out from below the aft deck, one level up).

Show me where the Bow has any room for guns. T'he Stern has an entire deck, and they only fit 2 guns there.

But why are you so worried about those 2pd cannons? Do you prefer theRequin for not having those and instead had the perk control?

 

[Hethwill]

8 minutes ago, no one said:

Do you prefer theRequin for not having those and instead had the perk control?

Please  yes,

[o Barão]

16 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Please  yes,

If that is the case and also the possibility (if we could convince the devs to change , which is impossible since they are hard stats ) to change the 32pd for 24 then the Requin should got a buff in the sailing profile sailing downwind. As I said before and I repeat again , the Requin is one trick pony. If the enemy understand the sailing profile there isn't much a requin player can do.

[Tenet]

2 hours ago, no one said:

If that is the case and also the possibility (if we could convince the devs to change , which is impossible since they are hard stats ) to change the 32pd for 24 then the Requin should got a buff in the sailing profile sailing downwind. As I said before and I repeat again , the Requin is one trick pony. If the enemy understand the sailing profile there isn't much a requin player can do.

You received such a buff - it's called Sailing 4. Just keep rolling the dice and you will get your the OP Requin you need. 

I will repeat: If the Cerberus and Pandora are 5th rates, so should be the Le Requin. If the Le Requin is a 6th rate, so should be the Cerberus and Pandora (and other historical 6ths). 

Edited July 21, 2019 by Tenet

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Tenet said:

You received such a buff - it's called Sailing 4. Just keep rolling the dice and you will get your the OP Requin you need. 

I will repeat: If the Cerberus and Pandora are 5th rates, so should be the Le Requin. If the Le Requin is a 6th rate, so should be the Cerberus and Pandora (and other historical 6ths). 

Wrong. The elite pirate rig was what made the Requin dangerous and that is gone. It is easy to get 15.5 speed Requin, but to get a fast Requin going downwind it is a complete different story. I already understand that you have no idea what you are talking about.  Make this little mental exercise. How many Requins you saw sailing in the OW one year ago? How many you see now? Why the big difference in numbers? Maybe the other players already understand how situational it is the Requin and only you thinks that ship is OP. Maybe I am wrong? Maybe.

 

And what difference would make to see a requin as 5th rate or 4th rate , it would make any difference in the OW? Are you having problems fighting them in the patrol zone? That is why you are here?

Edited July 21, 2019 by no one

[Tenet]

You claimed there were gun ports for bow chasers. Please point at them on  the image, and remember - guns require a deck to roll on that supports them. Lets settle one claim at a time, instead of jumping to new questions. 

[Genevieve Malfleurs]

6 hours ago, no one said:

If that is the case and also the possibility (if we could convince the devs to change , which is impossible since they are hard stats ) to change the 32pd for 24 then the Requin should got a buff in the sailing profile sailing downwind. As I said before and I repeat again , the Requin is one trick pony. If the enemy understand the sailing profile there isn't much a requin player can do.

I want my beloved Renommee a buff against all her weaknesses, cause if an enemy knows these weaknesses there's not much I can do with my tricky pony.

[Durin]

I was recently attacked by ~10 frenchman. It was a very close tag and my sail HP went down to 58% at the lowest. They had among others a fir Inger, a Rätt, Herc and Hermione. I made it out in the end, due to upwind sailing, tactical use of rig rep and 2 friends that dragged some of my persuers downwind.

I was sailing a T/W very fast Endy with 2x speed mod and a speed rating of 13.8, there are faster endys out there, but i guess this is still amoung the most valuable 5th rates there is. Had i lost it because of that equal speed free DLC Hermione, i might had been a little pissed. Only reason i got out there is because of errors of the Hermione Captain, letting me tac away upwind multiple times

But heres the thing: If i sail a ship like that into enemy waters, and allow them to get a good tag on me with a big gank fleet.... i should get sunk or captured, DLC ships or not. It only gets annoying IMO, if ppl use that free DLC shit to yolo into enemy waters, attack everything they can to wear down and sink/capture a few valuable ships without regard of their own losses, since their ships ain't worth a damn.

[Beeekonda]

1 hour ago, Durin said:

ppl use that free DLC shit to yolo into enemy waters, attack everything they can to wear down and sink/capture a few valuable ships without regard of their own losses, since their ships ain't worth a damn.

That must be  #1 Urban Legend in NA 

 

[Durin]

it does happen, sadly

[Hethwill]

5 hours ago, Tenet said:

guns require a deck to roll on that supports them

Those chasers are Swivel mounts, not carriage. ( and can be replaced to other mount points as needed ).

The quarter deck mounts are deck sweepers. Unlike NA, in RL much of the boarding actions could and would go back and forth, many times, between both vessels decks ( i remember one occasion where a boarding action lasted for 3 days, spanish captain under the maltese order versus turkish/barbary corsairs). A tactic used since antiquity to modern times is enclosed decks and guns to sweep attackers on your own decks. Swivels are perfect for that but carriage guns were also used in closed decks.

The Le Requin model has those mounts (which ain't used in our boarding mini game). And somehow they are your focus of attention !?...

 

 

[Tenet]

2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

The Le Requin model has those mounts (which ain't used in our boarding mini game). And somehow they are your focus of attention !?...

My focus of attention can be seen here:

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/30770-dlc-ships-and-port-bonuses-pay-to-win/

I outlined an overall problem, provided two specific examples, and offered a series of solutions, specifically:

Quote

Solution options (keep in mind impact on Missions and Solo-Patrol-Zone): 

Option A. All three rare ships should be upgraded to 5th rate, so that the Mercury, an accessible ship, becomes the top of the rate again. 

Option B. Le Requin stays 6th rate but [EDIT] loses bow chasers, reduced crew to historical 220 max, reduced Fire-Zone to 10 degrees. The Niagara or the Rattlesnake Heavy become non-permit, common ships to top the rate.

Option C. Cerberus become a top of the line 6th rate, here are the stats for comparison. It may need to have stats adjusted - HP and thickness, to better match the rate.

Some people decided to nitpick on specific statements, and attempted to divert the conversation. The fact that the "bow chaser gun ports" now turned into "swivel mounted chasers" (lol) is just a side show. You can get back on topic if you like. 

The Le Requin is statistically superior to all other top BR 6th rates, with or without those imaginary swivels. It's only on part with other Light Frigates that are now 5th rate.

http://images.devs-on.net/Image/TFgVPX3bwt3LbSU1-Region.png

The L'Hermione is the fastest frigate in the game downwind, while also being heavily armed relative to the speed. 

The Hercules is also too fast compared to the weight of armament it brings, but I didn't mention it because two example of Paying to Win are sufficient.

None of these DLC ships should have had Port Bonuses. They should not be equal to crafted ships. They should be used because they are expendable - a very powerful property in a game where you have to grind for hours to afford a 1-durability combat ship.

Edited July 21, 2019 by Tenet

[LeBoiteux]

On 7/19/2019 at 11:32 PM, Tenet said:

Option B. Le Requin stays 6th rate but (with) reduced crew to historical 220 max (...)

Historical facts :

• The Majorcan shipbuilders built LRQ to take onboard 300 crew and 50-60 days of food
• Crew on LRQ (in 1752, in peace time) : 245 (according to A. Demerliac, Nomenclature des Navires français)
• In 1753, Chevalier de Fabry, Captain of LRQ, spoke in favour of 200 crew in time peace and 280-300 in war time. In his letter to the French Navy, he forecasts one only objection from the Admiralty : the cost of the crew wages...
• Crew lists of LRQ in peace time show 187-245 crew.
• One crew list of LRQ in 1759, thus in war time, shows 228 crew. But other crew lists exist and would show other crew numbers, especially in war time.
• According to crew lists, crew seemed more numerous on xebecs of the French Navy than on the corvettes and frigates that carried the same armament.

Thus, 250 crew for in-game LRQ seems fair.

Edited July 21, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[LeBoiteux]

57 minutes ago, Tenet said:

Some people decided to nitpick on specific statements, and attempted to divert the conversation.

On 7/20/2019 at 4:47 AM, Tenet said:

Facts don't care about your feelings. I posted evidence to support my claim, and provided sources (both the API info from Netlify, and the historical references). 

The fact is you make up your own History  to support your opinion 😉

 

 

Edited July 21, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Raf Van Boom]

You must be the only person in the game who finds the L'Hermione imbalanced. Fast? People make Bellonas go faster, stupid argument.