Development plans update - Second Half of 2019

[admin]

5 hours ago, GrubbyZebra said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_attempts_by_Poland

not sure about Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas

 

all countries that had tried in the americas are described here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas

Chinese laborers also had two large settlements in Trinidad and Guadeloupe since 1806. 

[Galvez88]

Bringing China would help sell the game more, it would help developers have more money to create new ships etc. We all benefit. and see if we finally have another Spanish ship, it is necessary, we only have the santisima

Edited February 6, 2020 by ManuelSpain

[Smoothie]

If China will be implemented as a nation we surely need a chinese starter ship, the Junk :D

[BoatyMcBoatFace]

To bring china we need more of the map opened. Chances of that taking place? 

 

Current china players play under GB but they do not actually aid the nation in any shape or way. From my experience with other games, if that nation is put in NA,  in due time they will dilute and go to other nations aka poland v2.  They prefer to have their own micro communities in "foreign" conglomerates than a separate chinese whatever. So you are likely to see individually strong chinese groups in all the nations rather than them actually being in a chinese nation on its own. 

[GrubbyZebra]

37 minutes ago, admin said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas

 

all countries that had tried in the americas are described here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas

Chinese laborers also had two large settlements in Trinidad and Guadeloupe since 1806. 

There is also a sizeable Chinese population on Jamaica that traces back to the Colonial period.

[SirAlatriste]

If China is implemented, Portugal will be aswell implemented.

[Navalus Magnus]

2 hours ago, admin said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas

 

all countries that had tried in the americas are described here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_colonization_of_the_Americas

Chinese laborers also had two large settlements in Trinidad and Guadeloupe since 1806. 

Thank you for the links!

Just a comment from my point of view:

The linked texts back up your decisions to implement Polish-Lithuania and Prussia to a certain extent.

But Russia, according to these informations provided by yourself, had no part in the Carribean.

Chinese workers were assigned by the British it seems, to solve the lack of men working plantations, after slavery had been forbidden.

Thus it is clear, that neither a Chinese government nor traders played any (significant) part in the Caribean in the Age of Sail.

Apart from the mere prospect of selling more copies it seems to me, that there were and are no proper reasons to introduce a Russian or Chinese fraction into the game!

... for introducing Portugal on the other hand there are historical reasons a plenty!

Please consider, that a certain authenticity is also a reason to buy  / play a game and thus for the selling of copies.

To keep the game financially rewarding I‘d vote for more DLC ships and cosmetics rather than the introduction of another fraction that played no vital part in the period and area NA covers.

[Navalus Magnus]

2 hours ago, ManuelSpain said:

Bringing China would help sell the game more, it would help developers have more money to create new ships etc. We all benefit. and see if we finally have another Spanish ship, it is necessary, we only have the santisima

I completely agree with you, that the implementation of the Montagñe for example is something like a must.

But I think that should be achieved by sales from dlcs and the planed low cost version of the game.

[Galvez88]

12 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Estoy completamente de acuerdo con usted en que la implementación de Montagñe, por ejemplo, es algo imprescindible.

Pero creo que eso debería lograrse mediante las ventas de dlcs y la versión del juego de bajo costo prevista.

or the montañes or other ship, Spain had a lot of ships. Santa Ana, San Juan Nepomuceno.. hay muchas opciones

Edited February 6, 2020 by ManuelSpain

[Galvez88]

Santa Ana

[Galvez88]

San Juan Nepomuceno.

There are options. Spain even in a certain decline had still few ships and well armed at this time

Edited February 6, 2020 by ManuelSpain

[van Veen]

3 hours ago, ManuelSpain said:

and see if we finally have another Spanish ship, it is necessary, we only have the santisima

While I think more spanish ships would be great, you post is not quite true.

Diana and Santa Cecilia are also spanish ships.

[Galvez88]

11 minutes ago, van Veen said:

Si bien creo que más barcos españoles serían geniales, tu publicación no es del todo cierto.

Diana y Santa Cecilia también son barcos españoles.

those ships no longer exist, they are not buildable, only the oldest players have them well guarded (at least I love them) but they are gone!

[Navalus Magnus]

30 minutes ago, ManuelSpain said:

Santa Ana

1st rate dlc!? 😉

[Angus MacDuff]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Chinese laborers also had two large settlements in Trinidad and Guadeloupe since 1806.

I don't think this should be an issue about whether or not a country had representation in the Caribbean.  Its a game and that means fantasy.  We all want you to sell more copies so that there is more population.  I think you should certainly bring in other nations if there is a demand.  The only issue is whether or not they have a capitol and where you would put that if you decide to go that route.  What if Pacific Nations had a capitol on the Pacific side and have to fight their way into the Caribbean?

[LeBoiteux]

4 hours ago, admin said:

Chinese laborers also had two large settlements in Trinidad and Guadeloupe since 1806. 

1806 : arrival of 192 Chinese laborers in Trinidad

1850-1866 : next arrival of Chinese laborers in the Antilles (West indies), including Martinique and Guadeloupe (especially in 1859).

The drawing (from a photograph) comes from an article of the newspaper 'L'Illustration Journal Universel' published in 1860 (p. 13-14), entitled "First attempt of a Chinese immigration in Guadeloupe" and written in 1859.

Sources :

https://journals.openedition.org/etudescaribeennes/15892#authors

https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01629750/document

 

[Galvez88]

EL Glorioso

The Glorious "Ship of 70 cannons built in Habana

[Conte D. Catellani]

http://www.reformation.org/cabotia.pdf

I'm looking for some information about Venetian worker in America but actually i found this interesting documentation, well i knew it but wanted to give you some documentation proof.

There is also a picture of Caboto planting the Sant Mark lion Flag

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

@admin Chinese laborers arrival in Antilles were as "free men" but definitly can not count as a colony, they were Coolies (Cooly?) used as cheap workforce to replace the slaves after the ban. They were either kidnapped or recruited under false terms. Same happened with a lot of Indian coolies working in french colony.

 

Anyway, introducing China could imply also introducing Ottoman and also Maratha Navy if we looks to broaden the panel of potential players.

Then Italian states (/two sicily), Austrian navy (/Venice), Portugal, Greece.

 

  Not sure this is a good path for the servers but who know.. 

[Audacious]

5 hours ago, Smoothie said:

If China will be implemented as a nation we surely need a chinese starter ship, the Junk

 

This is better, double decker. 

[Navalus Magnus]

2 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I don't think this should be an issue about whether or not a country had representation in the Caribbean.  Its a game and that means fantasy.

Of course it is a bit of fantasy involved in every game.

But imo it‘s sort of inconsistent, if you create a game about a certain period of history and emphasis that your ship models are as close as possible 3D recreations to thier historic originals and at the same time bring fractions into the game that had no part in that area at the chosen period of history.

In other words: To meet Russian or Chinese warships (or even traders!?)  in the Caribean of the Age of Sail was probably not significantly more likely than meeting Aliens in spaceships at the same time and place.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Navalus Magnus

[Teutonic]

45 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Of course it is a bit of fantasy involved in every game.

But imo it‘s sort of inconsistent, if you create a game about a certain period of history and emphasis that your ship models are as close as possible 3D recreations to thier historic originals and at the same time bring fractions into the game that had no part in that area at the chosen period of history.

In other words: To meet Russian or Chinese warships (or even traders!?)  in the Caribean of the Age of Sail was probably not significantly more likely than meeting Aliens in spaceships at the same time and place.

So any game that tries to bring history to life and make things historically accurate...but then allows the player to not follow how history went should be dropped because it's bad?

if we want history to be exactly history, then you read a book about it. We play games set in historical eras to enjoy what we find cool in that setting, not because we want to be strictly bound to what "happened."

so we can't play our 7 years war tabletop games differently because history tells us how it ended up? I feel this type of thinking is narrow-minded.

[Navalus Magnus]

13 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

So any game that tries to bring history to life and make things historically accurate...but then allows the player to not follow how history went should be dropped because it's bad?

if we want history to be exactly history, then you read a book about it. We play games set in historical eras to enjoy what we find cool in that setting, not because we want to be strictly bound to what "happened."

so we can't play our 7 years war tabletop games differently because history tells us how it ended up? I feel this type of thinking is narrow-minded.

It‘s a sandbox game sort of, so you can relax I think: A reliving of history won‘t happen!

The players tell the stories here.

But as a developer / game disigner you need to decide about certain boundaries and thier impact on the game.

If you want to have a certain historic setting, picking fitting fractions for example will increase the immersion of players into the chosen setting.

If you want to sell more copies or show of that your open minded, than you might as well include every single nation of the existing world - well besides China at least Japan and India should also be introduced to the game in such case, because of the potential of rising player numbers.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Navalus Magnus

[Galvez88]

San Ildefonso

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

well besides China at least Japan and India should also be introduced to the game in such case, because of the potential of rising player numbers.

keep in mind that it would be a Chinese (or Japanese) flag on an existing ship.  I would hate to see the variety of junks etc, that sailed in Asian waters.