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John Sheppard

Griefing in OW and battle

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Ok so this [SHOCK] Max Massey guy has been following us for the last 40 mins in a fast hermione , running away every time we turn on him.
We attacked him , he kept running again and every time we want to stop the chase (coz he's way faster and we can't catch him) he turn around and tries to tag us .
He even tagged us and pulled us in battle while we were loging off to try and lose him that way , same thing he runs and tries to keep us in battle for as long as he can

What can be done about this? If this is ok for him to do i we can have 20 alts doing it in british waters and nobody well ever get a kill how about that? 


 

grief 1.jpg

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It's funny, when britts cry on the part of the gameplay :D

Edited by PaNik

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If i recall correctly this action is not against the rules even though it is annoying. The same tactic has been used in the past to delay attacking fleets from reaching a port battle. It was allowed then and I have not seen anything disallowing the tactic. If you are being harassed by a shadowing ship then you need to either run to a friendly port or just sail out of the area since it seems that you were in hostile waters to begin with. I can see what he did as a way to persuade you to leave an area that is friendly to him and he is protecting other ships you happen to be raiding. If you were for instance parking your butts outside KPR and he did this in defense of the port, I find no fault with what he was doing. If he sailed to your waters and did it then he is just being an annoyance and you could just dock and wait 30 min or so (go grab lunch).

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What he did here is against the rules if what you said happened is borne out by the logs.  In your pic he attacked you, and if he turned and ran and never fired a shot he entered the battle with no intent to fight and that's a violation.  All is needed is a look at the logs.  If he fought you then it's tough luck you'd have to get over it.

Edited by Papillon

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24 minutes ago, Papillon said:

What he did here is against the rules if what you said happened is borne out by the logs.  In your pic he attacked you, and if he turned and ran and never fired a shot he entered the battle with no intent to fight and that's a violation.  All is needed is a look at the logs.  If he fought you then it's tough luck you'd have to get over it.

Do you have a link where it states that delaying tactics were considered a violation? Historically delay tactics such of this were used when a smaller ship encountered a larger warship and wanted to lead it away from other more vulnerable ships. 

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I don't need a link.  It's been stated multiple times by Admin that entering battle with no intention of fighting is a violation of the rules.  Find it yourself and look it up if you don't believe me.  I don't have time to do it for you.  Most everyone on this forum knows that to be true.  Also, don't twist my words, I said nothing about delay tactics, I specifically said entering the battle with no intention to fight.

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8 hours ago, John Sheppard said:

Ok so this [SHOCK] Max Massey guy has been following us for the last 40 mins in a fast hermione , running away every time we turn on him.
We attacked him , he kept running again and every time we want to stop the chase (coz he's way faster and we can't catch him) he turn around and tries to tag us .
He even tagged us and pulled us in battle while we were loging off to try and lose him that way , same thing he runs and tries to keep us in battle for as long as he can

What can be done about this? If this is ok for him to do i we can have 20 alts doing it in british waters and nobody well ever get a kill how about that? 


 

grief 1.jpg

get a faster ship

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3 hours ago, Raekur said:

If i recall correctly this action is not against the rules even though it is annoying. The same tactic has been used in the past to delay attacking fleets from reaching a port battle. It was allowed then and I have not seen anything disallowing the tactic. If you are being harassed by a shadowing ship then you need to either run to a friendly port or just sail out of the area since it seems that you were in hostile waters to begin with. I can see what he did as a way to persuade you to leave an area that is friendly to him and he is protecting other ships you happen to be raiding. If you were for instance parking your butts outside KPR and he did this in defense of the port, I find no fault with what he was doing. If he sailed to your waters and did it then he is just being an annoyance and you could just dock and wait 30 min or so (go grab lunch).

At least one smart person
 

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This can be easily solved by a gradually increasing battle timer if you are attacking the same person repeatedly within a period of time. 

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In RvR this allowed coz it's the only way to screen. But if everyone does this in Open World to "protect their waters" as some of you say this will only ruin the game coz we all can have our alts sailing around with fir/fir speed trim hermiones or something else and keep any enemy we see in battle for half an hour or longer without any intention of fighting

This guy did not only NOT fight but he actively prevented us from leaving the battle , in multiple battles by shooting keeping us tagged with single shots from 2 miles away , yet every time we turn to fight he ran, both in OW and battle
 

Why didn't i dock? coz i was raiding in an enemy area sisal-campeche and there was nowhere to dock , After multiple attempts to dissconect (some of which resulted in him pulling us in battle and running again) we finally managed to disconect after 1 wasted hour

Again if you guys think this is ok i can apply it on a very large scale and see what you think about it then 

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5 hours ago, John Sheppard said:

In RvR this allowed coz it's the only way to screen. But if everyone does this in Open World to "protect their waters" as some of you say this will only ruin the game coz we all can have our alts sailing around with fir/fir speed trim hermiones or something else and keep any enemy we see in battle for half an hour or longer without any intention of fighting

This guy did not only NOT fight but he actively prevented us from leaving the battle , in multiple battles by shooting keeping us tagged with single shots from 2 miles away , yet every time we turn to fight he ran, both in OW and battle
 

Why didn't i dock? coz i was raiding in an enemy area sisal-campeche and there was nowhere to dock , After multiple attempts to dissconect (some of which resulted in him pulling us in battle and running again) we finally managed to disconect after 1 wasted hour

Again if you guys think this is ok i can apply it on a very large scale and see what you think about it then 

As i said before, if you are invading you do not get to dictate the tactics being used by the people defending their area. First, with the comment of i can apply it, grow the hell up. You sailed a slow ship into hostile waters and got bested by someone who actually knows how to harass an intruder. Learn from it and as KOC and Wraith said, get a faster ship and stop being so butt hurt because of your own poor planning.

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Ya I have to agree, if he was simply messing with you in your own territorial waters, than likely you could have had someone come to help you and he'd be dead; but he was near this own shoreline, doing whatever he could to stop two ships from running up and down and decimating his nation's traders. Too bad the Pirates on the east coast of the US aren't stupid enough to bring in slow ships like yours or I'd do the same to them.

Edited by CrustyJohnson
misspoke
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Ok from tomorrow then i ask everyone to do the same in british waters then :)

 

I came in a cheap trinc with no mods coz i wanted to fight not run and kite and we did get a fight after even tho we were out-gunned we won coz the russians were in fir/fir ships

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If you try to gank him it is normal that they do that, what do you expect?

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You try gank his ally, its also considered to gank him.

Edited by Nakomuro

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On 7/10/2019 at 7:20 AM, John Sheppard said:

In RvR this allowed coz it's the only way to screen. But if everyone does this in Open World to "protect their waters" as some of you say this will only ruin the game coz we all can have our alts sailing around with fir/fir speed trim hermiones or something else and keep any enemy we see in battle for half an hour or longer without any intention of fighting

This guy did not only NOT fight but he actively prevented us from leaving the battle , in multiple battles by shooting keeping us tagged with single shots from 2 miles away , yet every time we turn to fight he ran, both in OW and battle
 

Why didn't i dock? coz i was raiding in an enemy area sisal-campeche and there was nowhere to dock , After multiple attempts to dissconect (some of which resulted in him pulling us in battle and running again) we finally managed to disconect after 1 wasted hour

Again if you guys think this is ok i can apply it on a very large scale and see what you think about it then 

so ur words is he fired at u in an attempt to keep u in battle this not a simple tag and run for the whole battle u gave chase probably firing at him to so he fired back basicly he had the intention to fight but on his terms. 

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On 7/10/2019 at 3:26 PM, John Sheppard said:

Ok from tomorrow then i ask everyone to do the same in british waters then :)

 

I came in a cheap trinc with no mods coz i wanted to fight not run and kite and we did get a fight after even tho we were out-gunned we won coz the russians were in fir/fir ships

lol i was outside kpr in a fir/fir ratt and no one came to play with me i was there for hours chasin ships

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5 hours ago, Crimson Sunrise said:

so ur words is he fired at u in an attempt to keep u in battle this not a simple tag and run for the whole battle u gave chase probably firing at him to so he fired back basicly he had the intention to fight but on his terms. 

No . He had no intention to fight . Why i say this? coz every time we try to tag him in open world he runs away . Every time we turn around and let him be he comes back at us following us. We tried many things to lose him but he kept annoying us doing false tags etc. Eventually we tried disconnecting but he pulled taged us in OW and pulled us in battle twice . In the battle he had no intention to fight . Started running away as soon as it started and while we were chasing him he did not fire .

After few minutes we gave up again coz he was way faster so we drop sails waiting to leave battle but he turn around drop sails also and kept us in battle by very long distance shots at masts . We tried going after him again , same thing he runs . In the end we got fed up with it turn around and sail away.. Guess what he started chasing us and doing everything possible to keep us in the battle longer . We being in trincs and he in hermione managed to get away by sailing upwind . 

Rince and repeat from the start in open world 

Eventually after over 1.5 hours if you count from the start

 

I believe @Captain Reverse was complaing about a similar situation on his stream today in truxilo and even asking that the people responsible should be banned (yes i speak russian too) . Well we can't have double standards .. i warned it would lead to this so devs should give official position about this . If russians are allowed to do this then same goes for brits and everyone

Edited by John Sheppard

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1 minute ago, John Sheppard said:

No . He had no intention to fight . Why i say this? coz every time we try to tag him in open world he runs away . Every time we turn around and let him be he comes back at us following us. We tried many things to lose him but he kept annoying us doing false tags etc. Eventually we tried disconnecting but he pulled taged us in OW and pulled us in battle twice . In the battle he had no intention to fight . Started running away as soon as it started and while we were chasing him he did not fire .

After few minutes we gave up again coz he was way faster so we drop sails waiting to leave battle but he turn around drop sails also and kept us in battle by very long distance shots at masts . We tried going after him again , same thing he runs . In the end we got fed up with it turn around and sail away.. Guess what he started chasing us and doing everything possible to keep us in the battle longer . We being in trincs and he in hermione managed to get away by sailing upwind . 

Rince and repeat from the start in open world 

Eventually after over 1.5 hours if you count from the start

 

I believe @Captain Reverse was complaing about a similar situation on his stream today in truxilo and even asking that the people responsible should be banned (yes i speak russian too) . Well we can't have double standards .. i warned it would lead to this so devs should give official position about this . If russians are allowed to do this then same goes for brits and everyone

if he never fired at u then how were u kept in battle then u did give chase did u not, and last i checked annoying u with false tags and tagging u when u tried to logout was part of the game i mean the brits do it as well. as do every other nation,  u do know u could of simply surrendered ur ships or closed the game down and just ignored him tagging u, it was ur choice to indulge this player who was tagging u to keep his territorial waters protected. 

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This type of conflict makes me concerned about ever attacking a player.  The combat in NA is convoluted enough without adding unwritten rules.

Tagging/attacking enemy ships without risking capture or destruction seems like a effective delaying tactic.  To hold a player in an instance and flee would be a great way to hold enemy until more friendly ships arrive to help, or stop enemy from continuing their journey to a port battle.  Conversely the enemy could call their own reinforcement players to counter the ships that are tagging-fleeing-delaying.

Where is this direction from Admin that delaying (with no intention of fighting) is against the rules.  We are not talking about willfull griefing with the intention to anger or offend, we are referring to a player who is holding or delaying the enemy as a strategy to defend, or defeat the enemy's mission.

Ultimately the decision to stay or leave is completely up to the enemy.  The enemy can surrender, attempt to use diplomacy (promise to leave the area), or log off the game.

This type of complaint creates concerns that an attack, without complete commitment to fight, might be considered against the "unwritten rules of NA".   Is it win or sink at all costs?  Seems like it would be safest to just never attack anyone at all, unless I'm prepared to be banned, or prepared to commit suicide.

Edited by Macjimm
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