Port bonus should cost extra to add to a ship.

[Guest]

It's already come to a point where most ships I see sailing around are level 3 or 4 on all possible port bonus. There is no extra cost to build these ships but they are immensely more powerful. I think it should cost more materials to add available port bonus' to ships. It would be even better if you could customize, perhaps you want a Trinco with sailing 4 but don't want to pay for crew 3. Or you want your Bellona to have hull 4 but don't care for the other bonus.

 

 

[HachiRoku]

why? The pros will only grind more mats for better ships and the rest will be hammered even more. 

[Slim McSauce]

Not that, but ships without Port bonuses should be cheaper.

[OjK]

Hell no.
Making a proper Spreadsheet Ship Calculator is already problematic.

Also, it wouldn't change absolutely nothing.

Also, it has no sense. Because it's about quality and skill of the builders, not that they put more wood on the side to make it stronger.

[Teutonic]

as I said elsewhere,

Level 3 bonuses really aren't all that much, and even Level 4 aren't a lot, it's only Sailing 4 and Crew 4 which could be reigned in a bit.

 

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Do away with all the port bonuses, all the mod stacking, and ban all the alts.  Only allow ability to add one mod of each type and that's it. And hopefully while they're making that update ban all the alts. 

PVP was more fun in ages for just a few days after release because everyone was in basic ships without all the mods, bonuses, and books for super ships.

 

[Papillon]

On 7/7/2019 at 1:47 AM, Mad Dog Morgan said:

Do away with all the port bonuses, all the mod stacking, and ban all the alts.  Only allow ability to add one mod of each type and that's it. And hopefully while they're making that update ban all the alts. 

PVP was more fun in ages for just a few days after release because everyone was in basic ships without all the mods, bonuses, and books for super ships.

 

Would love such a game.

[Raekur]

Well if you want to make the port bonuses cost more or require more materials then the materials to make them should be reduced as well. How about remove the port point system and make the bonuses at max 4%. 

Simply put, if you want a ship to match the crafted ships with port bonuses, get on the friendly list of a port that has them. Easy fix.

As for removing the alts, this is not going to happen as there are quite a few families that play from the same external ip address. So unless you can figure out a way to isolate these alt accounts AND convince Devs to issue a refund (good luck with that) I would suggest you drop the subject.

[CaptVonGunn]

it already did.. in the cost of investment for the Upgrade

[Mad Dog Morgan]

6 hours ago, Raekur said:

As for removing the alts, this is not going to happen as there are quite a few families that play from the same external ip address. So unless you can figure out a way to isolate these alt accounts AND convince Devs to issue a refund (good luck with that) I would suggest you drop the subject.

That's such a BS excuse maybe 1% of alts fall into that category.  

[CaptVonGunn]

If they remove alts they would have to refund all those accounts for the purchase that was made in good faith within the existing rules or risk getting the crap sued out of them.

[Slim McSauce]

What you could do is make it so players under the same IP are reported as alts under info. That way the anonymity is lost and people will know who is an alt and who is not.

[Capitalism]

2 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

What you could do is make it so players under the same IP are reported as alts under info. That way the anonymity is lost and people will know who is an alt and who is not.

What is an alt and what is a main? Who determines that in the case of those of us with equal rank, nearly equal play time characters? And what about family playing behind the same routable IP? 

This seems to me to be a problem that doesn’t need solving, and I don’t even know how we got on this subject...

Back on topic, port bonuses represent an extreme investment and as such should be free at the port they are invested in. You can argue that reducing the mod stacking or increasing choices available to crafters could be better (4 total points of port bonus can be crafted into a ship, crafter chooses their distribution from available port bonus levels, etc.), but that changes what these leveled ports were supposed to be: foci for RvR. 

I think the problem is that like so many things the developers have tried, they got this wrong because nations and zergs can place their main ship building ports behind basically uncaptureable capitals and timers.  And now, instead of nations going after the port bonus port in order to cripple a nation’s crafting and deter that extreme investment, you have people whining about the impact that investment has and asking to nerf it...

Why not just nerf the zergs or make port bonus ports always captureable regardless of their county’s status, etc.? 

[Slim McSauce]

2 hours ago, Capitalism said:

What is an alt and what is a main? Who determines that in the case of those of us with equal rank, nearly equal play time characters? And what about family playing behind the same routable IP? 

Doesn't really matter. If you're sharing IP with someone you're basically on shared accounts, whether family members or alts. 
This solves the paranoia and confusion, as well as persecution of many players who are believed to be alts (many new players)
Alts are a cancer and are actually destroying the integrity of NA. You can't remove them but you can remove their mask.

 

[Hethwill]

3 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

If you're sharing IP with someone you're basically on shared accounts

Incorrect.

My family plays several games through Steam Family and XBox live through the same ISP ip connection.

They are each a singular account, no sharing, albeit different hardware signatures ( PCs and consoles ).

P.s. - leave mortal disease analogy out of here please. I know you can use better ones. Is really distasteful. Appreciated a lot. Really, a lot.

[Slim McSauce]

18 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

P.s. - leave mortal disease analogy out of here please. I know you can use better ones. Is really distasteful. Appreciated a lot. Really, a lot.

Alts are easily the #1 thing plaguing NA. How many suggestions are shot down "oh but alts will do this"
How many new players are getting accused of being alt accounts? Ostracized and barred from clanship?

Don't get it confused, alts are an exploit, and if there was a way to prevent them it would be implemented.
People use alts to spy and troll and take advantage, we know very well what trouble alts can cause.

We can't remove or prevent alt accounts from doing things. But we can make it known who is an alt.
If you're playing with family, well you have no concern (if you're in the same nation)

everyone else should be looked at with extreme scrutiny.
"Why do you have ties to the opposition?"

[Hethwill]

I merely observed that same household ip is not shared accounts.

Personally, being a spy is okay, but admitting it should have consequences.

I rather remain innocent and think every single player i see is a "unique player" but also get dumbfounded how so many know about as many being alts of and, as a crowd, taking it as natural behaviour or approach to the game.

Granted it can be simply a game culture thing, a hobby exposure concept or maybe a competitive measure. All good.

But still, in my own individual NA player viewpoint, assuming alt'hood - especially cross nation - should be ground for "legal seizure of property, goods and any other assets the subject may consider his, and put under the care of the guard while at the same time the individual in question be destitute of all rank or nobility titles".

 

Regarding Port Bonus cost. Too low IMO. But the investments are done.

Bonus themselves though could be reviewed ( and I hope they are ) as they can stack up pretty nice with the rest of the mmo items ( books and modules ).

[Slim McSauce]

39 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

But still, in my own individual NA player viewpoint, assuming alt'hood - especially cross nation - should be ground for "legal seizure of property, goods and any other assets the subject may consider his, and put under the care of the guard while at the same time the individual in question be destitute of all rank or nobility titles".

Too bad we can't do this, we can only punish those who have absolutely no shame and name their alts, and that needs to be confirmed by admins.
Being a spy is O.K. in my book, it's a legitimate thing. Being an alt is not. Spying would be a risk, there is no risk being an alt as long as you don't, yourself spill the beans.

Otherwise you can't just punish people who share IP. Which leads the question, is showing which accounts share IP a punishment, and for who is it punishment towards.
It's not the father/son playing on the same nation is it? No. The account with multiple cross nations ties? Well it's good to know that the loyalty there may be shaky.

Knowing who is not an alt is 100x more beneficial than knowing who is an alt in my opinion. It's deeply embarrassing when a new player takes his first steps out of port, 
Into chat, or into battle and is immediately given trial by veteran players for possibly being an alt. You can't blame the veterans either, subterfuge can destroy a nation.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

So basically you'd see most players running around with "Possible Alt" flags. Furthermore, if someone really wanted to get around your little alt-shaming exercise in order to do real "subterfuge" it would be trivial to do so via VPN/proxy, etc. to hide their multiple accounts/clients.

That's exactly the problem. It's like letting IRL gold sellers run rampant in your game, they start scamming people and killing the market.
After you've already gotten into the gig you will defend it, but those who know better will not be for it any alt-ing of any kind.
Simply put if there was something we could actively do about alts without causing legal trouble, it would be done.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Slim McSauce]

21 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Don't misunderstand me, I think that it's much easier to design a game and its mechanics around systems where alts don't exist. But the fact of the matter is there is no way to prevent them from existing, and there's disincentive to the developers to slow down the pace of multiple sales since this is a game based around one-time purchases and not subscriptions.

So why bother advocating for it if it essentially amounts to tilting at the windmill... Spend your time elsewhere like banging down the dev's door for raids or other universally desired outcomes. And don't be chintzy and support the dev's and their hard work by buying another copy of the game. lol  

Likely the reason we don't have raids yet has something to do with the abuse of alts. There's a reason why this game was designed to be 1 character per account.
Alts, bot farming, IRL transfers will always be a problem from MMOs. Considering it as not a serious issue will always lead down the wrong path.
Sure you may make more money in the short terms letting these things happen. Is that really something anyone wants though?If there's a will there's a way, alts can't be removed but they can be exposed. At this point it would be a lot of exposing. Like I said, I'd rather know who isn't an alt than know who is. Maybe a loyal star besides the name of players without multiple accounts under their IP. Better to reward those than punish, because in this environment it's very tempting to buy multiple accounts for use.
 

[Raekur]

6 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Likely the reason we don't have raids yet has something to do with the abuse of alts. There's a reason why this game was designed to be 1 character per account.
Alts, bot farming, IRL transfers will always be a problem from MMOs. Considering it as not a serious issue will always lead down the wrong path.
Sure you may make more money in the short terms letting these things happen. Is that really something anyone wants though?If there's a will there's a way, alts can't be removed but they can be exposed. At this point it would be a lot of exposing. Like I said, I'd rather know who isn't an alt than know who is. Maybe a loyal star besides the name of players without multiple accounts under their IP. Better to reward those than punish, because in this environment it's very tempting to buy multiple accounts for use.
 

So in an off handed way, punish those families that play together. At the very least discriminate against them and since they do not have your little star they will be viewed as a spy/alt/traitor/general piece of Slime. It seems that you feel that alts have no useful function and instead are only used for nefarious means. How wonderfully near sighted of you. What about alts that are used just for additional storage, or as a trade ship that the main account can escort (since it seems finding escorts sometimes is like pulling teeth). What about a dedicated crafter so that perk points do not have to be constantly reset, or a mortar brig operator for the same reason (that 400 gold gets expensive over time). Not every alt is a fricken problem just the same as every alt is not benign. Accept the fact that there is no way to punish the malicious a-holes who use alts to disrupt the game without equally punishing those that do not. Think of the community as a whole, not just yourself.

[Raekur]

16 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Come on... are you literally trying to claim that alts are the reason we don't have raids yet?  That's a stretch even for you. 🙄 I'm only theorizing, but I think the reason we don't have raids is because it requires a few more lines of code than the simple twiddling of pre-existing knobs and database number-tweaking that constitutes the vast, vast majority of the only changes we've gotten in the game in the last year.

The real coders have done left the building for other projects methinks (This Land, Ultimate Admiral, etc. etc.) and I think their time on Naval Action is likely very, very limited.

in addition to what Wraith pointed out, there is also the fairly large amount of coding that would have to be created to determine the loot gained by raiding a port, making database changes upon completion to how many accounts, some of which might be in the process of trying to evacuate the port being raided. Add to that the assessed damage dealt to the port and if ships are to be considered up for capture by the raiding party...etc..etc..etc...

Unlike your internet, it is not fixed by just "flipping a switch" (note: that isn't either but many ignorant people think so)

[DeRuyter]

Steering back on course; the issue is not the cost but the stacking, bonuses + mods + books of the same type. Ports should not be building ships with every bonus anyway. The port owner should have to choose which ones to invest in but all the big ports have too many points. 

[CrustyJohnson]

The only way to stop alts is to make them less attractive. The admirality connections was a good step toward this. Maybe figuring out an alternative to labor hours, implementing hands-off AI traders (just give them the supplies and a destination and turn them loose), and allowing clans to go rogue from nations and create their own city-states would be a way. (no more spy-alts, rvr grief alts, or alts needed to access enemy port resources)

[Captain2Strong]

I agree that port bonus shouldn't exist - but it does, so just keep hauling trash until you can afford it!

Edited July 10, 2019 by Captain2Strong