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John Sheppard

Strange occurances or RNG damage?

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Ok so i was in this battle just few mins ago and some really strange things happened (not for the first time)

I was sailing a teak/teak trinco with all 32pd carros . My clanmate had a herc with carros aswell . We get tagged by herc trinco and snow and we go for them thinking it'd be an easy fight . Couple minutes into the battle i fire full broadside at snow expecting to pretty much level it (coz it seemed quite fast) and well .. i get 20  hits (32pd carros) into his side (no i didn't hit his bow or stern) from pretty much point blank and NOTHING. Took less than one notch off his armor .. Now i don't care how tanky you make a snow this isn't possible under normal circuimstances and i'd love someone to demonstrate it if he believes otherwise .

So that was first WTF momment .. The herc was fine and pretty much what i expected .. put 14 shots into him (bad angle) and boom half his side gone + reload shock

Later into the battle Jaro joined in a requin and managed to turn the tide coz we were losing at this point. So fine we kill the herc pretty fast . Took considerable ammount of time to kill snow and due to a combination of factors like failed boarding attempt that didn't seem to work for some reason (no G even tho both ships were stopped and fully preped for boarding with more more crew on our side) we lost the 2 small ships so it was pretty much trinc vs trinc . I was taking far more damage in my teak/teak trinc than the enemy was even tho he kept missing lots of shots and i used both my broadside . 
Nevermind the fact that he somehow managed to repair 5 minutes earlier than me even tho we had repaired together earlier . In the end here we are i managed to out-maneuver and get on his weak side taking off the rest of his armor with my strong side facing him . and he had 30% structure left with yellow pump and rudder , stuck upwind . So i fire what i was pretty sure would be the last broadside, only 14 hits penn ok fair enough it was band angle but i had to shot but the strange thing is that i did only like 2-5% damage to the damn structure wtf?? so it barely moved form the 2nd notch down . i had to put it 3 more broadsides to actually destroy the ship .

I went to loot it , quite curious about such a tanky , yet fast build with obvius repair mods and what do i see? the screenshot bellow .. Fir/Fir with Croocked hull .. over 1k less HP than my ship and 8cm less thickess .. WTF??

 

Before you all start screaming "you're a noob git gud" , without actually adressing the points , keep in mind that i've got over 4k hours and done plenty PvP and PBs so maybe i'm not "gud" but  i know how much damage to expect before i fire a broadside 

If anyone has an explanation for those events i'd like to hear it . You can't say that my shots bounced coz i got credit for the number of hits everytime i fired 

Maybe just a rant but there you go . Not the first time this is happening either and i'd like an (reasonable) explanation

 

Thanks

battle2.jpg

Edited by John Sheppard
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I noticed something similar with an ingeri sank last night, stern raked him down to next to nothing he popes hull rep then lost al his masts, 3 notches of structure sitting 100 meters off his stern with carried wappen, 5 broadsides with almost all pens later his structure didn’t move. We ended up sinking him through the side alittle later.

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I have found that Port Bonuses are still making side armor OP, yet it seems to do nothing to the structure. So, battles take longer just requiring us to get bow and stern rakes as often as possible and just ignoring the sides.

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i experienced the same thing doing 10 full hits on the side  in several battles( close to medium range [carros]) but no damage was calculated 

weird indeed.

also when aiming at a ahip the balls fly in every direction except for the aimed ship . 

its RNG to the MAX. 

Arcade noob game i say.... i am noob even after 400 hours, everybody is noob. well almost everybody ,And some are top of the bill after 1 hour.. guess who?

the wipe did old players no good , and after 2 weeks, old balance was shifted  ,we will see more arcade RNG and upgrade advantage , to correct it .

it will en up... like WOWS sooner or later i think.

 

Edited by Thonys

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I noticed it too. Last night I was in t/t trinco and had nice duel against danish trinco. We both were full carro but after each broadside I noticed that he was doing much more damage to me then I was doing to him. Nothing strange with that but after I sank him I saw that his trinco was t/w with same hp as mine and since I had navy planking he had smaller thickness then me. So how was he doing more damage then me!?! Is there some secret damage resistance modifier that we don't know about?

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May be... I noticed that hits placed too high make a lower damage than hits at gun deck level. Too high shots are recorded as hull hits, but they only kill crew. Those could be checked if you recorded the battle. 

The hull of a Trinc is higher than the hull of a snow, but not of the hull of a Hercules. At short range, this can be a part of explanation.

Edited by Aquillas

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14 hours ago, Aquillas said:

May be... I noticed that hits placed too high make a lower damage than hits at gun deck level. Too high shots are recorded as hull hits, but they only kill crew. Those could be checked if you recorded the battle. 

The hull of a Trinc is higher than the hull of a snow, but not of the hull of a Hercules. At short range, this can be a part of explanation.

The snow doesn't really have a weatherdeck tho(EDIT: i mean yes it has guns on top but there is no armor protecting them ) and i alwas aim at the bottom gun deck for that very reason . Not to mention that because i was running carros and because of the strange way they work (aims is pefrect untill a certain point when you aim higher than that they suddenly shoot waaaay up , there seems to be a line that you should never aim above it) , i always aim just bellow the bottom gundeck to actually hit the gundeck

Edited by John Sheppard

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I actually have similar event 2 days ago.

 

I was in teak/teak endymion with port bonuses 2. Broadside to broadside with a Trinco. (Both carros, both point blank). We did roughly same damage, he might actually have done slightly more then me.

In the end he got sunk (was more players and AI involved but that doesn't matter). What matters is when i sailed up to his ship to check it out i was shocked. FIR/FIR???. Sure he had port bonuses, but no special upgrades.. and again.. FIR/FIR.

I haven't bothered mention it before I read that others have similar experiences.

 

If this is because he got hull port bonus 4, and I only 2 then something is really messed up. Being fir/fir he should have been smashed to pieces, and definately not going broadside to broadside with me at point blank range.

Edited by Liang Dao Ming

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4 hours ago, Liang Dao Ming said:

I actually have similar event 2 days ago.

 

I was in teak/teak endymion with port bonuses 2. Broadside to broadside with a Trinco. (Both carros, both point blank). We did roughly same damage, he might actually have done slightly more then me.

In the end he got sunk (was more players and AI involved but that doesn't matter). What matters is when i sailed up to his ship to check it out i was shocked. FIR/FIR???. Sure he had port bonuses, but no special upgrades.. and again.. FIR/FIR.

I haven't bothered mention it before I read that others have similar experiences.

 

If this is because he got hull port bonus 4, and I only 2 then something is really messed up. Being fir/fir he should have been smashed to pieces, and definately not going broadside to broadside with me at point blank range.

If both of your had a full carro build. Then a Trinc has a slightly higher broadside.

going by everything you have stated, if we assume the trinc has hull bonus 4 and you had which port bonuses?

you still have around 1,600 more hitpoints than the trinc.

Hull bonus 4 gives you 5% more thickness and 5% more HPs, along with better fire resistance (10 or 20%). if you have some port bonuses than what probably was making the difference is the trinc carro broadside. 

There are other possible reasons, depending where you hit also makes some variations of damage, I have noticed if you target more within the middle of a ship between the water and their top deck you will deal most of your damage towards their hull, whereas if you target the upper gun decks it seems some of your "damage" goes to killing crew. Going further, if you aim to create leaks against a ship, you may notice you don't deal a lot of damage, but you create a ton of leaks.

 

I am not suggesting anyone's experiences are wrong, rather, the combat/damage model we have in the game is really really complex. I also want to have folks remember that port bonuses as they currently are are not OP apart from sailing and Crew.

if someone had port bonuses and you didn't, both players can easily reach the hard caps in the game for a lot of stats, the 2 main stats that a port bonused ship has over a non-port bonuses ship after taking into account mods and books is normally speed and crew

 

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

If both of your had a full carro build. Then a Trinc has a slightly higher broadside.

going by everything you have stated, if we assume the trinc has hull bonus 4 and you had which port bonuses?

you still have around 1,600 more hitpoints than the trinc.

Hull bonus 4 gives you 5% more thickness and 5% more HPs, along with better fire resistance (10 or 20%). if you have some port bonuses than what probably was making the difference is the trinc carro broadside. 

There are other possible reasons, depending where you hit also makes some variations of damage, I have noticed if you target more within the middle of a ship between the water and their top deck you will deal most of your damage towards their hull, whereas if you target the upper gun decks it seems some of your "damage" goes to killing crew. Going further, if you aim to create leaks against a ship, you may notice you don't deal a lot of damage, but you create a ton of leaks.

 

I am not suggesting anyone's experiences are wrong, rather, the combat/damage model we have in the game is really really complex. I also want to have folks remember that port bonuses as they currently are are not OP apart from sailing and Crew.

if someone had port bonuses and you didn't, both players can easily reach the hard caps in the game for a lot of stats, the 2 main stats that a port bonused ship has over a non-port bonuses ship after taking into account mods and books is normally speed and crew

 

I had port bonuses 2. So the only difference was that he had port bonus 4 vs mine 2... but I was teak/teak vs fi/fir... , of course there is possibility that he was simply shooting better but as our ships were completely clashed together broadside to broadside I don't think it was matter of aim.

But i didn't really bother me that much, i was abit suprised that he was fir/fir but.. didn't think much of it. Until I saw this thread and thought maybe there's an issue after all.

Also a possiblity that he was using any of them new guns that drop with elite ships. I don't know about them. And since ship was sunk I don't know what guns he had, apart from that it looked like carros.

Edited by Liang Dao Ming
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55 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

If both of your had a full carro build. Then a Trinc has a slightly higher broadside.

going by everything you have stated, if we assume the trinc has hull bonus 4 and you had which port bonuses?

you still have around 1,600 more hitpoints than the trinc.

Hull bonus 4 gives you 5% more thickness and 5% more HPs, along with better fire resistance (10 or 20%). if you have some port bonuses than what probably was making the difference is the trinc carro broadside. 

There are other possible reasons, depending where you hit also makes some variations of damage, I have noticed if you target more within the middle of a ship between the water and their top deck you will deal most of your damage towards their hull, whereas if you target the upper gun decks it seems some of your "damage" goes to killing crew. Going further, if you aim to create leaks against a ship, you may notice you don't deal a lot of damage, but you create a ton of leaks.

 

I am not suggesting anyone's experiences are wrong, rather, the combat/damage model we have in the game is really really complex. I also want to have folks remember that port bonuses as they currently are are not OP apart from sailing and Crew.

if someone had port bonuses and you didn't, both players can easily reach the hard caps in the game for a lot of stats, the 2 main stats that a port bonused ship has over a non-port bonuses ship after taking into account mods and books is normally speed and crew

 

there are hard caps?

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31 minutes ago, CrustyJohnson said:

there are hard caps?

yes.

a couple off the top of my head are:

15.5 knts speed. - when your ship reaches the maximum speed limit, if you add any more speed bonuses, it does not increase your max speed, BUT it increase your overall sailing profile. 
Example: is that you go 15.5knts 30 degrees off the wind and 12knts at beam reach, if you use another speed mod, you still only go 15.5knts 30degree off the winds, but you can now go 13knts at beam reach.

30% Hitpoints (for both armor and sail) 

40% cannon accuracy

30% cannon reload

25% turn rate

30% repair (the maximum possible repair action is 50%, standard base hull repair is 20%)

 

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I just had a weirdest battle yet. I was in t/w trinc fighting Capn Rocko trinc. At first everything was fine. I killed his crew down to <100 and opened his left side. But then mine damage stopped. I wanted to board but couldn't turn him into the wind even when he was at 80% and I was at 100% and he was almost looking into wind, but he was still able to push me (I was in front of him so he was pushing my whole ship) and prevent boarding. So I get back to plain old destroying his hull, but mine damage was minimal compered to his damage and I had full carro trinc and he had ~20% armor on side I was shooting but couldn't damage it. I went from full armor to half structure (he had long 18 with 32carro)  while trying to destroy his last 20% but simply couldn't. I got to the point where he asked me if i ever used carros before!?! In the end I attacked his right side and menage to bring it down from 100-0 in 2-3 broadsides. Its like my damage was cut by 90% once I brought his armor down. And when he sunk I expected to find at least lo/wo with battery mod. NOPE! teak/bermuda with iron knees!!!!! WTF. I reported F11 bug but forget to take screenshot for me. I looked after battle and I did 70k damage to that trinco

9QurdoR.png

EDIT: I found screenshot of his trinco

14xRYZ5.jpg

Edited by Zoky
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