ALT clan capturing enemy port

[Guest]

I feel like it is solid case for the tribunal, since I believe there is no direct written rule about this. VCO clan (pirates) use their alts in the US nation (MAGIC clan) to flip a port. Now, as we speak it seems like they haven't comitted any crime yet, but knowing the past events and actions we know very well what to expect. It happened already in past with MAGIC clan taking Little River, so technically "the real" US would never own it. VCO as clan is directly attacking US nation and their ports, so it's another evidence that they have no intention of playing as real US players and support the nation. They are not even hiding with that fact, making jokes in global chat, making memes and posting them on forum about it. 

Same thing they did to take Little River from their own clan.  Now, I hope that moderators will keep this thread clean from VCO trolling and making jokes.

[Mad Dog Morgan]

A Pirate walks into a bar, notices a very large jar on the counter, and sees that it's filled to the brim with doubloons. He guesses there must be at least a thousand doubloons in it. He approaches the bartender and asks, "What's with the doubloons in the jar?"

"Well..., you pay one doubloon, and if you pass three tests, you get all the doubloons in the jar"

The Pirate certainly isn't going to pass this up, so he asks, "What are the three tests?"

"You gotta pay first," says the bartender, "those are the rules."

So, after thinking it over a while, the man gives the bartender one doubloon which he stuffs into the jar.

"Okay," says the bartender, "here's what you need to do:

First - You have to drink a whole quart of rum, in 60 seconds or less, and you can't make a face while doing it."

"Second - There's a dog chained in the back with a bad tooth. You have to remove that tooth with your bare hands."

"Third - There's a 90-year old lady upstairs who's never had sex. You have to take care of that problem."

The Pirate is stunned! "I know I paid my doubloon -- but I'm not an idiot! I won't do it! You'd have to be nuts to drink a quart of rum and then do all those other things!"

"Your call," says the bartender, "but, your doubloon stays where it is."

As time goes on, the Pirate has a few more drinks and finally says, "Where's the damn rum?!"

He grabs the bottle with both hands and drinks it as fast as he can. He doesn't make a face -- and he drinks it in 58 seconds! Next, he staggers out the back door where he sees the dog chained to a pole. Soon, the people inside the bar hear loud growling, screaming, and sounds of a terrible fight -- then nothing but silence!

Just when they think that the man surely must be dead, he staggers back into the bar. His clothes are ripped to shreds and he's bleeding from bites and gashes all over his body. He drunkenly says, "Now..., where's that old woman with the bad tooth?"

Edited June 27, 2019 by Mad Dog Morgan

[Black veil]

I think it's disgusting and very sad that a clan like VCO who have a good player base has to do this to get ahead if they want the US coast fight for it properly and take a sense of accomplishment if u do but to cheat because that's what this is means ur either not capable or scared either way it's sad and greatly unfair to the clans in the US that are playing the game as intended 

[Msk]

Question for those confused, if they own the port just south and could easily flip the port fight the pb most likely win and kill the nation as I keep reading. How is it so detrimental that their US clan takes a minor county Port that touches their already claim3d territory. I just don’t see how this is actually a big deal or even a small deal? Especially since they can’t use the port to generate hostility on anything. Hell even coming out of ays it’s all their own ports to attack. Didn’t they help the nation by painting another flag in the red white and murican blue?

 

Again from the outside looking in I’m confused how this is even and issue within the us nation? You still have to lose a port before they could lose that port, they had the entire county bordering anyway and at worse you’re looking at a 5 minute sail difference. And isn’t there already us clans trying to make deals with vco or uws to open a port in exchange of getting a pass for themselves? That’s the scuttlebutt around npg.

 

sorry for any typos using my iPad to respond is annoying

[z4ys]

Testing is over game is released - when accusations are true that a clan uses alts to ...

1. troll a whole faction

2. uses alts for rvr (not by occupying slots) more in an indirect manner by sabotaging (denying port entrance to actually defend the port) and taking advantage with mains and killing so the fun for said US faction.

There is no better way to kill the game and the fun for all player.

But the first post is lacking proofs, screenshots, videos, voice records...

 

[Guest]

This is the consequence of frontlines, maybe there should be a way to exlude ports from a county making them possible to get attack without going through the county capital

[Msk]

34 minutes ago, Liberalism said:

1. Port can be used for sabotage in hundreds of ways. They can pretty much set it FFA and use as base to make hostility on Ays, repair etc. If closed, that would be much harder. 

2. US nation won't have any influence on the port, like you know when nation plans development of ports, investments etc.

3. Port ownership is denied from real players (not alts). 

4. Since port is technically owned by VCO (enemy of US nation), US nation can't take it back from them, because it's within the same nation. Now think if Cartagena was owned by Dutch alt clan of BAIT they would collect all the taxes generated by the Dutch players (your enemy collects your money on your own national port), they could remove all clans from friend list denying you access to all port bonuses there etc. Enemy alt clans within your nation is even worse than rogue clans of normal players (not alts). With rogue clans you can at least negotiate something. With your enemy...

Except your references are to a county capital not a minor 15 point port that might be an alt clan but is still more active then 2/3rds of the nation. Some people like flying flags of certain countries and it’s why we have made up national representation in the Caribbean anyway. 15 point port owned by a clan clearly active enough to  take it, what a full week after the county capital was taken?

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Msk said:

Except your references are to a county capital not a minor 15 point port that might be an alt clan but is still more active then 2/3rds of the nation. Some people like flying flags of certain countries and it’s why we have made up national representation in the Caribbean anyway. 15 point port owned by a clan clearly active enough to  take it, what a full week after the county capital was taken?

50 minutes ago, Liberalism said:

4. Since port is technically owned by VCO (enemy of US nation), US nation can't take it back from them, because it's within the same nation. Now think if Cartagena was owned by Dutch alt clan of BAIT they would collect all the taxes generated by the Dutch players (your enemy collects your money on your own national port), they could remove all clans from friend list denying you access to all port bonuses there etc. Enemy alt clans within your nation is even worse than rogue clans of normal players (not alts). With rogue clans you can at least negotiate something. With your enemy...

another point to this is that IF they ask for help from a clan from another nation, that nation first has to capture and destroy the investments in the county capital, punishing that port owner in both time and currency, which is a HUGE flaw in the system and probably pointed out by others when it was about to be implemented

Edited June 27, 2019 by Guest

[Audacious]

This is not national news.  Stay on topic. - H. Darby

Edited June 27, 2019 by Henry d'Esterre Darby

[Thonys]

Mmm we need proof  screen shots and text of devious acts

if it is cheating for denying other to play the game in a fun way , it is lacable.  i think and must surely be punished in some way  i think that is the only criterium

deliberate destroying others own nation ports is rebellion 

if it is done for just stupid reason it is .....well weird stuff .

if people screw the game for just screwing the core  game it should be bannable for life and no return

Edited June 27, 2019 by Thonys

[Severus Snape]

52 minutes ago, Audacious said:

VCO been jumping nations and ruining life for new guys since I remember. Their leader is a Hillary supporter, so go figure. 

VCO has been pirate for a couple of years now.  

MAGIC clan asked the assistance of friendly pirate clans to flip a port for them so they could get Vic marks and a meager production up and running.  No alts we’re killed to generate hostility.  Missions were made available to the pirates by US captains.  This was all deemed legal in past tribunals and the mechanic in the game allows such.

Cayo Bisc was formerly a neutral port where anyone could access the coastline north or south.  MAGIC clans intention is to plug this leak and stop other nations from doing this.  US leadership is upset because MAGIC clan did this before MONKS clan, a primarily Prussian clan with alts in the US, could flip the port in their name and keep it open, thus doing exactly what we intended.   This was confirmed to myself via a member of the US leadership.  Our aim is to leave it closed and secure the coastline, nothing more.  If our intention was to sabotage the coast we would have picked a port further up, not one 2 mins away from pirate ports.

we also spammed nation chat multiple times for 2 days asking if any clans would like to participate in the battle.  Only 1 took us up on the offer.   No attempts to excluded the nation were done by our hands.

here we are already making the riff raft flee from our coast 

Also in the process of flipping the port a handful of dirty clans were seen jumping into hostility missions and intentionally sinking in an attempt to lower hostility and prevent the port being taken.   Just is classic hostility manipulation and I believe, a tribunal offense.  

Those involved.  

CrazyCraigMan

Detroit

Please see the video below and keep a good eye at how accurate Detroit’s broadsides are and how much damage was done to their AI.  

I humbly ask that @Ink get involved and punish these hostility manipulators.  

Edited June 27, 2019 by Severus Snape

[Teutonic]

When there are players in other nations with characters in the US, but it's ok for them to get hostility but not another alt clan.

Just because you hate 1 clan and group, doesn't mean it is tribunal worthy. This is no different to a nation that has a clan no one likes and yet still hangs out and does stuff.

I'm sorry but in this instance MAGIC has done nothing wrong and evidence has been brought to the contrary to show other people are more worthy of a tribunal instead.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Teutonic

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Severus Snape said:

"Wall of text"

I humbly ask that @Ink get involved and punish these hostility manipulators.  

maybe ill ask my friend with an US alt to help defending the US players down the coast 👀

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Severus Snape said:

VCO has been pirate for a couple of years now.  

MAGIC clan asked the assistance of friendly pirate clans to flip a port for them so they could get Vic marks and a meager production up and running.  No alts we’re killed to generate hostility.  Missions were made available to the pirates by US captains.  This was all deemed legs in past tribunals and the mechanic in the game allows such.

Cayo Bisc was formerly a neutral port where anyone could access the coastline north or south.  MAGIC clans intention is to plug this leak and stop other nations from doing this.  US leadership is upset because MAGIC clan did this before MONKS clan, a primarily Prussian clan with alts in the US, could flip the port in their name and keep it open, thus doing exactly what we intended.   This was confirmed to myself via a member of the US leadership.  Our aim is to leave it closed and secure the coastline, nothing more.  If our intention was to sabotage the coast we would have picked a port further up, not one 2 mins away from pirate ports.

Also in the process of flipping the port a handful of dirty clans were seen jumping j to hostility missions and intentionally sinking in an attempt to lower hostility and prevent the port being take.   Just is classic hostility manipulation and I believe, a tribunal offense.  

Those involved.  

CrazyCraigMan

Detroit

Please see the video below and keep a good eye at how accurate Detroit’s broadsides are and how much damage was done to their AI.  

I humbly ask that @Ink get involved and punish these hostility manipulators.  

Discussion of moderation.  Stay on topic. - H. Darby

Now that I got that out of the way,  Magic Clan leader is @William Death alt Albus Dumbledore.  How do I know, cause he made the char the same time I made Jaquotte Delahaye as US alts so we cold do econ on there coast and spy on them back on GLOBAL.  MAGIC current has 4 players in that clan.   

The issue is if VCO takes AYS and than lets MAGIC capture it from them as soon as it is on cool down US can not capture the port back.  MONKS is a clan that works with the US leadership MAGIC isn't.  So what there agreement is is between them.  Some of MONKS clans do not have prussian and are full time US players.   MAGIC is nothing but alts.....that don't play normally with the rest of the US.

A solution for this would be to make sub region ports only captured by clans on the Capitals friendly clans list.  That way you have control of who controls regions.  As was mention above they could of tried to take a northern port and left it open to have done more harm and US couldn't of done anything about that.   So the best solution would be to limit hostility missions to only clans that are on the friendly clan list of the owner of the capital so that alt clans can't just come and grab up ports and do what they want with.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Henry d'Esterre Darby

[--Privateer--]

It is not uncommon for clans from different nations to work together towards a mutually beneficial goal.

The closing of Cayo Bisc was agreed to be mutually beneficial to both Pirates and the US as it was being used by enemy nations (Polish, Swedes, Prussia, and Russia) to camp both the US coast and the Pirate occupied Florida Keys.

I am surprised the US leadership let it remain open for so long... unless maybe... the US leadership ARE alts of the Prussian clan [MONK]... and they left the port open... to hunt US players on their own coast! 😱 

[Severus Snape]

2 hours ago, Wyy said:

maybe ill ask my friend with an US alt to help defending the US players down the coast 👀

Please do.  Make sure they put up a better fight than these noobs who ran when they hit structure   

 

I’d also like to note that the sane tactics were used by Banished Privateer aka @Liberalism with pole players opening hostility missions and having other nations fill and complete them.  Unfortunately he failed. 

 

- Do not interfere with a specific Tribunal case by raising a dust cloud by bringing other issues that should have their own threads. It will be considered off topic -or- if continued; trolling/spamming - 

Edited June 27, 2019 by Hethwill

[Sir Texas Sir]

By the way any one sinking themselves in that battles was stupid.  The way the new mechanics work is all the hostility would of went towards WIE in that battle since that was the clan that open the mission.   Now in other missions I could see them doing it to bring down hostility, but it's still not against the rules.   What I do see by that video is that Serverus Snape was offering missions up prob and UWS was jumping into them to do the hostility so that MAGIC can get the points.  While not against the rules this is just very shady practice.

Shooting your self with agreed upon green on green is not against the rules.

3 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

I am surprised the US leadership let it remain open for so long... unless maybe... the US leadership ARE alts of the Prussian clan [MONK]... and they left the port open... to hunt US players on their own coast! 😱 

Or maybe they where hunting the pirates and ya'll just couldn't have that?   Maybe we are all the tooth fairy?  Maybe doesn't skip the point of folks abusing a alt clan to do something with there primary nation.   Now the smart thing is that if VCO used alts to bring the missions and UWS did the missions it keep them from crossing there chars in play.  Which is smart, but as I said above if they want to prevent this in the future than they need to limit the hostility missions to those that are on the capital owners friends list as was talked about at one time.

[--Privateer--]

11 minutes ago, Severus Snape said:

Please do.  Make sure they put up a better fight than these noobs who ran when they hit structure   

I'd also like to note that screenshot looks like a MONK player attacked a US player... so much for working 'with' the US.

[Capitalism]

Could someone please define an “alt” for a poor newb? If You have two characters in two different nations, both of the same rank and both with practically the same number of hours... and both have passed the exams (making one character more capable than a large portion of the nation it is in, but that’s an aside)... then which one and its actions is tribunal-worthy (as long as neither has broken the explicit rule of saying they’re an “alt”)?

Isn't this exactly what prolific forger DLC is meant to be used for?

[Teutonic]

@Sir Texas Sir

Lets get rid of the VCO hate for a minute. You don't have to like or hate vco, you have to see if rules were broken for a tribunal. 

Tell me with a straight face that MAGIC broke any rules? They didn't. 

A clan "following" the majority leadership in a nation doesn't mean anything when it comes to the rules of the game. 

Look, VCO and MAGIC could be the worst people in the world, but if they don't break any rules then there is nothing to add on and talk here.

From a game rules perspective: A US clan of players - and it doesn't matter who is in the clan - took a port in a county under their nation's control.

Let me repeat.

No. Rules. Were. Broken.

End of story.

[Sir Texas Sir]

18 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

@Sir Texas Sir

Lets get rid of the VCO hate for a minute. You don't have to like or hate vco, you have to see if rules were broken for a tribunal. 

Tell me with a straight face that MAGIC broke any rules? They didn't. 

A clan "following" the majority leadership in a nation doesn't mean anything when it comes to the rules of the game. 

Look, VCO and MAGIC could be the worst people in the world, but if they don't break any rules then there is nothing to add on and talk here.

From a game rules perspective: A US clan of players - and it doesn't matter who is in the clan - took a port in a county under their nation's control.

Let me repeat.

No. Rules. Were. Broken.

End of story.

Did you not read my post?  Even I said that since UWS did the actual missions  there was no conflict of interest.  All I did was supply the proof of who is alts of who for the base of them saying they where asked (by there own alts?) for help.   Also pointed out folks posting are actually been abusing rules....how many times they been ban and still post on alt accounts which is against the rules, even if all those bans should been lifted upon release of the game (which means I don't agree they should still be banned).  I also mention that green on green if approved is not against the rules.   

Finally I pointed out an easy solution that even the Devs brought up when all this started with them flipping ports with legacy missions.  If you want to fix alt clans from flipping ports behind lines than make it so that only friendly clans on the Capital owners list can pull missions for the sub ports of that region.  If you put said alt or troublesome clan on your list that is your own dang fault for doing so.   
 

It also has been stated how they have abused the ports to flip and hold so US can't take the ports back against a US clan.   Something devs should look at too as there is no way to remove a rebel/alt clan port from your Nation at this time and it's a very bad system to allow for such clans to be able to do so.  Lets take the pirates and every one out of this.  Say Lionshaft gets pissed off at US and he suddenly opens up Savanna to all.  There is nothing the other US clans can do about this.  The system is broke and needs something to help prevent this.  There was talked about doing something on PvE (economics sabotage) which might be something that could work on War server too, have it where there is a means to push a clan out if they are being abusive or anti National.

 

To me it sounds more like folks want a solution to this abuse of alts/clans/etc more than a witch hunt before it becomes more of a problem than it is now.

[Vernon Merrill]

This is not national news.  Stay on topic. - H. Darby

Edited June 27, 2019 by Henry d'Esterre Darby

[PG Monkey]

3 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Question:  

Do garbage humans know when they’re being garbage-y?  Or do they just not realize it?

Asking for a friend.....

At least when the game dies they will be able to say " I told you so"

[Sir Texas Sir]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

It seems to me that it might be just as likely that VCO, who always started started out as U.S. on PvP1, might just as well be accused as the most successful clan of U.S. alts in the Pirate nation ever...

Does that accusation make it true?  I'm still unsure.

Anyway, no rules broken by VCO or the true patriots MAGIC, therefore not tribunal-worthy, as has already been touched on. Therefore, I demand satisfaction and a duel between the OP's "main" character, whoever they are, and @William Death. Pickles at dawn in the netural shallow waters between the now glorious American coastline and Cayo Largo, I say!

In the spirit of this ridiculous Tribunal I've changed my forum sig. Rum to y'all.   [ ]D

lol you know @William Death hates the bathtub toys...lol

Though really guys ya'll talk all the time about hating the RPes in US and just look at some of ya'lls post, ya'll do more RPing in the furoms than they do in game (most of those Rpers aren't even playing any more)......cracks me up.

But I said my peace about how to fix the issue with limiting hostility missions to friends list on the Capital Owners friendly clan list and this wouldn't be an issue at all.

[Severus Snape]

Leave the moderating to the moderators. - H. Darby

Edited June 27, 2019 by Henry d'Esterre Darby