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Delivery missions income discussion

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The real shame in my opinion is that the cargo/delivery missions would have been awesome to have at the same time as we had intermediate crafting....

Therefore we would have had the ability for new players to use those for your intended purpose along with more experienced crafters and traders doing runs to produce and supply RvR....

To me, THAT would have made the most sense...

P.S.--  You could still keep the "trade goods" in as tough and exclusive "super-long route super high-income" quests....

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Cargo and Passenger delivery missions are fine as they are. Especially when taking into account the high cost of setting up and maintaining forests, mines, plantations, buildings and shipyards.

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I think the missions meet their goal.  I think trade missions could get more variety - I'd like to see missions where you have to smuggle goods into and out of enemy ports (with rewards scaled on how active a port is), and mission chests offered for repeat runs.

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I think delivery missions are fine, the problem is you nerfed combat XP when you said you where going to buff it.  That is not how you make fighting more profitable, than you mix in you have to most the time share those rewards with others in battle?   You need to fix the profits of trade goods to be more profitable to trade and increase XP and combat rewards.

Why do we not get travel xp going towards our ship knowledge?   This would help trade ships open up slots that normally never fight.   As much running around doing delivery missions I should of open a slot or two on my Trader Brig or LVG by now.

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(I'd also like to see trade goods be worthwhile to haul, but I don't have any good suggestions for that, I'm afraid.  Maybe be able to take missions to exchange them for crafting materials in foreign ports, like a barter system...?)

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36 minutes ago, admin said:

Hello Captains. Lets talk about delivery missions

We get many letters and feedback where captains express concerns about delivery missions income. The goal of delivery missions was to give a captain who just lost his ship a quick way to recover and make some money to buy or craft a ship, buy guns and upgrades to get back into action. 

Previously we would rush to fix it ruining it for someone who enjoy them. Now we take all opinions into consideration. 
Lets have an honest discussion.
Do delivery missions give you what they are supposed to do? Do you use them and love them? Do you hate them and if you do - What do they break in your opinion? And how would you change the rewards ? 

The two problems i see are:

-The problem is that risk X reward situation is missing.

-The other problem is that the trade is not giving to much money so many players just prefer to do delivery missions.

 

a) To implement a risk X reward situation  , i suggest to implement an insurance policy to the missions where the player is forced to pay in advance 10% of the cargo value. If the player fails to deliver the cargo , he will lose that value.  As an example there is a cargo delivery missions that will give the player 170k reals, the player will need to pay 17K reals  (10%) to get the mission. The moment the player delivers the cargo, he will get the value of the mission , plus the insurance. In this case 170k + 17k.

 

b) To solve the problem with trading, is imo to buff around 20% the income with trade runs. ATM is to low and most players just prefer to make cargo runs unless they are dedicated traders with many indiamans in the fleet.

 

As a side note: I like the cargo missions, they are not just a good way to make money but also makes the players to sail around in the OW. They are good for the game experience, but it lacks a severe penalty for failing the mission.

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I love them, even if i prefered the rewards from the dev server back when you introduced them.

Make pirates able to transform cargo mission into "contrabant goods" & passenger missions into "ransom", so they can make profit of them by selling them in freetowns.

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7 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

(I'd also like to see trade goods be worthwhile to haul, but I don't have any good suggestions for that, I'm afraid.  Maybe be able to take missions to exchange them for crafting materials in foreign ports, like a barter system...?)

As I said, bring us back to a year ago with trading.  I can't remember why it was bad and needed to be changed. 

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@Devs
I think they gave themselves the answer in their question. If you only want to give money and doubloons to our PvPers quickly and easily, trading missions in the current form are just the thing. Sure, there will still be players who want more for even less effort, but it's up to you how easy they want to do it. Transport missions are undemanding, they do not require equity and they are boring (afk trading ftw).

If you want more challenge and complexity, you must revise the entire economic system. Goods without any function, trade that does not deserve the name, an economic part that even a child masters after a few minutes. Who should motivate them to seriously deal with the topic of economics?

But as mentioned at the beginning, if you just want to make the PvPers happy, then you can leave everything as it is.

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6 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

As I said, bring us back to a year ago with trading.  I can't remember why it was bad and needed to be changed. 

 

2 minutes ago, Georg Fromm said:

Goods without any function, trade that does not deserve the name, an economic part that even a child masters after a few minutes. Who should motivate them to seriously deal with the topic of economics?

I think this is why we revised the trading mechanic.  I don't agree with it.  Trade has meaning in the game just as it had in RL.  To make money.  This isn't an economy game, but it hovers on the edge of that.  We need to make money to carry out our other activities, but I don't care if my Parisian Furniture has any function in the game.  it's just a means to an end.

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48 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Hunting trader ships is barely a PVP.  Even Indiaman fleets  are made of Fir/Fir and in best case only the main one is armed.

but before you could see fleets of 4 indiamans with escorts carrying thousands of goods for huge profit to a port, now you see only small traders doing the same thing because there is a limit of how many missions you can take (not bad, but maybe the cargo weighs to low?) and they are much more profitable then doing trade runs with goods. I remember the times when i played in GB and we did Seville Musket bombs to generate millions of gold in 1 day

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Delivery missions are good as they are. not as low risk as many assume as if i lose my trade ships carrying the missions, i lost all the time invested in them. 

Please on the other hand make trading a lot more profitable on medium distances. One way to achieve this is to decrease the weight of goods drastically so a 4 ship fleet of indiaman can make a profit far exceeding delivery missions. Trade only gives Reals. Delivery missions can generate Doubloons too. Trade needs to reflect this in a way that it generates at least 3x the reals within similar timeframes. One way to achieve this is to decrease the weight of goods and increase sell prices at the same time might needed to achieve a viable alternative to delivery missions. 

Medium and long haul trading should be expensive and very rewarding taking the financial risk involved. 

Edited by Wick
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ooh! I can chuck in my 2 cents:

I like them - As you intended it is easy to do a delivery mission or two to get you started. this is especially true of passenger missions that have no weight considerations. I can do 1 passenger mission and have enough for a trader snow which then allows me to do cargo trading.

The good things:

1) I can earn reals and doubloons in a non rng way from the get go. Any port, get into a cutter/tcutter and of you go. Even the rock bottom newbie can do this straight of the bat

2) I'm out in the open world in a trader. More content for those folks that like to hunt the OW for traders

How I abuse it:

I treated myself to an Alt last weekend and literally all he does in between harvesting is run cargo missions. All day everyday. I can make a million + and about 7k dubs in a good session. Its very easy and even if he gets stopped and sunk I just get another trader brig . Rinse and repeat.

 

We then have to consider resource trading. i.e finding a good resource, planning a route, buying the resource in sufficient quantities to fill up your traders. then running the gauntlet from A-B with a closed sphincter hoping you dont get stopped. High risk, very high reward.

I think to maintain the original goal they should remain but the payout should be nerfed substantially. A trader snow costs about 5.5k from the admiralty  and even the quickest delivery mission pays out about twice that. The cargo mission payouts are astronomical in comparison.

How about you just slightly nerf the payouts for both delivery and cargo? divide by half would be fine 

 

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1 minute ago, Wyy said:

but before you could see fleets of 4 indiamans with escorts carrying thousands of goods for huge profit to a port, now you see only small traders doing the same thing because there is a limit of how many missions you can take (not bad, but maybe the cargo weighs to low?) and they are much more profitable then doing trade runs with goods. I remember the times when i played in GB and we did Seville Musket bombs to generate millions of gold in 1 day

I used to see a couple of Brits in heavy warships each with 3 Indiamen in fleet.  This is smart play and I always wanted to hunt them down with friends.  Really good content that is lost because trading is not worth it. 

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They're fine as they are at the moment, they're good for people to start off getting money etc but their existence has really undermined trading. Trading profits should be where the real reals are made. Profit margins in comparison to delivery missions are really poor. Why risk hauling cargo you've paid for when you can get it for free and have bigger rewards for the time spent doing it.

I think the easiest thing to do would be just to increase the selling price for goods, put it up 200% or something. That'd give folks an incentive to trade again.

Edited by Gregory Rainsborough
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It's probably been said, but I'll pitch in my tuppence.

I am a non-hardcore dude who actively plays two hours a day tops, around an hour on regular days, 4(ish) days a week; I have a day job that allows me to afk sail a couple of hours a weekday.

I like the delivery missions because...

... they allow me to generate fairly reliable income on a modest scale, with the time budget I have.

... with that income, I can finance my active playing time, either for the clan or for solo PvE.

... and I have to go to the open world for it, which generates the occasional hair-raising encounter for me, and a bit of sport for a hunter.

 

Without the income stream from the missions, I'd be very constrained in contributing to the clan efforts, and in putting my fighting ships to sea.

Edited by Kpt Lautenschlaeger
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5 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

You don't need alts to make 2 millions a day. You only have to sail from port to port and take every mission which lays on your route. This is boring, time consuming but efficient.

Of course you don't. But doing it semi-afk on an alt, gives you the opportunity to actually play it on your main account. It is another case of problematic balancing when it comes to alt accounts. Turns a non problematic mechanic into a money printing machine.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Do delivery missions give you what they are supposed to do? Do you use them and love them? Do you hate them and if you do - What do they break in your opinion? And how would you change the rewards ? 

Delivery missions are the best thing since sliced bread. I would change nothing regarding them. Easy reals and dubloons for people starting out or clans with big losses. However this should be the baseline income generation. All other successful activities should generate more.

Successful traders who put the time and risk in to develop routes and should be able to earn reals and doubloons. Perhaps trade missions to deliver specific goods should also get the same rewards that delivery missions get, plus the profit from their goods they hauled.

Combat should also be able to generate good income on par or greater than cargo missions. Sink a first rate in a second rate and you earn 20k, a simple passenger mission to the next port over earns that. To build a 2nd rate you need millions of reals and forty thousand doubloons to build the shipyard. You need to level to rank 6 in crafting, you need to establish outposts across the map, spend millions of reals in buildings and resources. Those huge sunk costs required to start should have good earnings. Perhaps they can be different, combat missions to attack trade convoys with escorts earn you resources/doubloons/reals, make them interesting group activities that reward useful things and it can be equal but different.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

The goal of delivery missions was to give a captain who just lost his ship a quick way to recover and make some money to buy or craft a ship, buy guns and upgrades to get back into action. 

This specific goal is working for me.

One delivery worth 100k reals allows me to equip the 6-7 and 5th rates i'm playing at the moment ( unlocking slots and so forth ); at a theoretical rate of 3 losses per day plus 3 DLC models, all equipped with mediums and minimum repairs and rum.

Given a healthy time expenditure of roughly 2 hours a day I might lose one ship, but truth be told is not a competitive playstyle.

What I experience though, and comparing it to other game I play, is that there's no 'penalty' for canceling the contract/mission; but taking again on the goal you intend for the missions - recovery of a lost asset by being active again in the OW - being a trader/passenger ride - the necessity for penalty is null.

What could also be done is delivery missions in a bundle, similar to Search and Destroy, with a certain amount of cargo and passengers to deliver to different regions ( all taken immediately ) and with completion rewarding also chests.

On that note, two observations:

- mission items should not be tradeable

- mission items should be capturable only by ship sinking and only by 'enemy player' entity

Just to clear up some 'shady' competitive situations out there.

 

All in all, thank you for this mechanics. They allow a '2 hour day' player like me to enjoy the Naval Action game without big problems, a cruise a day.

P.s: it won't allow for casual ship of the line gameplay, that is certain, but i also believe that is not the goal.

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Please leave the missions as they are. I would suggest  100 ton missions for starter Basic Cutters to provide Cargo delivery as well as Passenger missions.

Keep up the good work.

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I love the new missions.  If passenger  / cargo missions were nerfed, where would money come from?  I am >not< investing a million reals into ships and cargo only to lose them after sailing 4 hours across the map just to entertain the pure PvP players.  The risk / reward just isn't there.  

Some automatic nerfing is coming soon as most neutral ports will become taken, and missions can't be accepted in taken ports.  I would change this.  It would be totally realistic to allow cargo / passenger missions to be accepted in enemy ports - simulates smuggling, which was big business back then.

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1 hour ago, Tom Farseer said:

Drastically reduce the completion timer. 9 real time days to complete a cargo order leads to people stacking them in their warehouse and delivering large amounts in a single run.

i thought it was Ingame Days as you could see your days at sea, would be cool to remake them to that even if you extend the delivery due abit, would make that small but cool detail relevant aswell

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There is nothing wrong with delivery missions as they are. I'd adjust them personally but well we can talk about that later. They help all players regain money when losing ships. If anything, Cargo/passenger missions are a HUGE success, honestly one of the best additions to the game recently :).

The fact that Cargo Delivery missions have no collateral cost is further reason to get them over anything else. someone is chasing you and you are about to be caught? well I'll just delete these missions no problem - "woooosh" increased my speed because i have no weight in my hold... I am still being chased? alright well I can just surrender delete the missions and get new ones somewhere else. I'm not advocating that they should have a collateral cost, I'm just trying to create a picture in why people do missions instead of trade goods, when "trade goods" should be the best money maker.

 

Why do I have a problem with it? As other folks have said, a lot of activities are rendered "too risky" or "not good enough" because of these missions:

1. Trade goods - the fact that short to mid range trade good runs are piss poor in profit and money making ability. it is largely agreed that the only way to "actually" make decent money with trade goods are 2-3+ hour trips (4-6 hour round trip). When you factor in all the risk, the purchase price and sell price of trade goods, you realize you could make a ton more money (reals) for less time with cargo/passenger delivery missions. In fact, a large amount of trade good runs that would be "short to mid-range trade runs" are a net negative after factoring in tax, that's just straight up messed up.

This NEEDS to be fixed.

2. The adjustments on xp and real rewards for sinking NPC ships is still "low" and I think further adjustment should be made.

 

my solutions? as follows

A. All cargo and passenger delivery missions should have a reduction in real rewards of 10-25%, but always have a doubloon reward. These missions should be skewed in making more doubloons instead of reals.

B. ALL trade goods that are sold at ports that consume the item should be giving a good 20-40% more in revenue. and honestly I'd say it should be even higher of a sell price (30-50%). Trade goods should absolutely be the #1 way to make the most reals in PvE activities.

C. Sinking ships should again be giving more reals and XP. I'd honestly double everything here, for both PvE and PvP.

 

------------------------

want a further alternative solution?

A. seriously consider lowering all costs in building prices, I think this is a huge issue for a lot of players in that a big reason for everyone feeling poor or not having enough cash is directly due to the prices of "everything."

I'd honestly rather have a game where i make 1,000 reals and spend 800 reals instead of what we currently have where I make 100,000 and spend 95,000. It just feels incredibly swingy with 1 minute i have 5 million reals, and the next minute i have 50k reals and once again really poor.

Edited by Teutonic
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Love them, but they need a chain story that would lead to the Final Destination and final Grand Prize. Player can pick where he wants to stop. 

Instead from A to B + Reward, Make A to B(Cash) to C(Gold Coin) to D(1 ship citation)

Ship citations* - 50 Ship citation = 1 ship deed. 

In the end, make these missions like everything else more immersive. Everything is so flat atm. 

P.S> and don't forget about daily 30 day login rewards. 

 

Edited by Audacious
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You should let players generate delivery missions to move their own goods. I'd haul stuff for people all day.

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