Is helping with tutorial exams a case of good intentions - bad favor?

[Koltes]

Im guilty of that myself. Just gave advise on how to fight the finals and then had this thought.

I think that the exams are brilliant, however Im not sure if helping new players with the exams is a good idea.

No, giving some general tips is ok I guess, but exam is not just a test of captain’s skill, but also the knowledge of various aspects of the game. The reward is great - we jumping few levels and it pretty much puts us into hunting in OW capability.

I would like to think that this is how devs are giving us our levels back. You just need to prove that you deserve it. I wish there will be additional exam. Harder. That gives us more levels. Into 3rd rates at least (wink-wink) 😏

You would not expect to show up on the exam and have your examiner hold your hand and help you through the entire exam. Or would you?

No, its a test of YOUR knowledge. You need to come up with the solutions. How to survive. What tactics. When to execute etc etc. You need to get that feeling that YOU did it. That you had enough knowledge to do so.

Reason because I think that the exams are brilliant is because you should be able to gain necessary knowledge around the level they grant you when you complete them. This means that new players can just do the tutorial part and play the game and learn through experience how to complete the exam. 

Old knowledgeable players have the advantage here by completing the exams and jumping few levels higher having a little head start.

And I’m definitely not trying to shit on the new players here. Hence I think consumable rewards needs to be given earlier.

I know that exams give rewards that are so much needed at the beginning of the NA career. Why not change the rewards and give all these consumables for simply completing the tutorial, not the exams. 

There should be only xp reward for completing the finals and this will not make everyone try so hard to complete it. Some players will just enjoy the leveling process as it was intended and pass the exams at their own time when they are ready. And those players who are capable can rank up because they deserve to.

If we agree to this we would need to make forum  rules that do not allow to post step-by-step guides how to pass the exams. Disobeying these rules will be a tribunal matter. Just like green on green for example. It will happen still of course. In private. But on a much-much lesser scale in general.

I’m interested to hear other people’s thoughts on that. Cheers 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by koltes

[Koltes]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Grind is shitty content. PvP/RvR is really the only content we have in Naval Action and when success in PvP is guaranteed by access to bigger guns (because of a broken combat model) then you might as well give a pass to people for ships that allow some kind of success in my opinion, otherwise they'll just quit the game.

Its an issue indeed, but I don't think its the one I proposed to discuss in this topic

[Koltes]

15 minutes ago, Liberalism said:

Hell, I logged on other players accounts that couldn't finish exam and done it for them. Final exam is some battle vs AI that is cheating, I don't feel bad for getting it done for my friends. It's not anything near what you get in PvP.

Can you say why have you done that? What was the purpose?

[CaptVonGunn]

32 minutes ago, koltes said:

Can you say why have you done that? What was the purpose?

My guess is because the Final Exam is stupid... in a Real fight vs those odds the Surprise would damage sails and run away. Ai at out to about 300 yard has a High rate of hits and your ship has about 1/3 less thinkness then they do.. SUre it is doable.. I just did mine this morning after a couple trys. But I was at 5 min left when the 2nd one sank.. Toss in they have a lot of Marines and you dont have any so boarding is not the best option  either...  It is not a good test. It is almost the Naval Action Kobi Ashi Maru:) 

[Koltes]

4 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said:

My guess is because the Final Exam is stupid... in a Real fight vs those odds the Surprise would damage sails and run away. Ai at out to about 300 yard has a High rate of hits and your ship has about 1/3 less thinkness then they do.. SUre it is doable.. I just did mine this morning after a couple trys. But I was at 5 min left when the 2nd one sank.. Toss in they have a lot of Marines and you dont have any so boarding is not the best option  either...  It is not a good test. It is almost the Naval Action Kobi Ashi Maru:) 

See, you have found the way! And YOU did it! Kudos!

 

4 minutes ago, Liberalism said:

so they can get the rewards and rank. 

Hence why I think players should get consumable rewards for just completing the tutorial. Without even touching the exam

 

2 minutes ago, Liberalism said:

Boarding is the fastest option actually, can get you down to 10 minutes. Even if AI cheats in boarding by having more marines and ridiculous boarding bonuses, it still sucks in it and gets tricked by simple scheme and algorithm.

Yep

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Best we have done for our members is just give them a few proven strategy along with tips like don't rush. Got over an hour to complete it so best use your time wisely rather than do anything rash. I didn't find the final exam to be all that bad now with the Surprise, but I do see where players do get aggravated. Hence, why we don't require new players to complete it. If they want they can go back to it later. Let them have fun.

[toblerone]

to the OP

I do not want to appear rude, but I think your post shows quite clearly the actual problem of this game.

The lack of understanding of what makes a MMO Worth playing for the average player, which is …. guess what … FUN.

The open world in MMOs is not an E-sport arena and - what's most important - needs 80% average Joes and 20% diehard veterans, not the opposite.

Mind you, this situation is not caused by veteran players but has been set up step by step by the developers that created (on purpose in my opinion, due to the DLC monetization model) game mechanics that are (maybe) funny just for competitive veterans but are a chore (and a bore) for new players and casuals in general.

Time will tell where this choice will lead the game (even more due to the incoming steam sales), but the problem is there and it's quite clear (at least to me).

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, toblerone said:

to the OP

I do not want to appear rude, but I think your post shows quite clearly the actual problem of this game.

The lack of understanding of what makes a MMO Worth playing for the average player, which is …. guess what … FUN.

The open world in MMOs is not an E-sport arena and - what's most important - needs 80% average Joes and 20% diehard veterans, not the opposite.

Mind you, this situation is not caused by veteran players but has been set up step by step by the developers that created (on purpose in my opinion, due to the DLC monetization model) game mechanics that are (maybe) funny just for competitive veterans but are a chore (and a bore) for new players and casuals in general.

Time will tell where this choice will lead the game (even more due to the incoming steam sales), but the problem is there and it's quite clear (at least to me).

+1kk

This post should be pinned/highlighted

 

[Koltes]

3 hours ago, toblerone said:

I do not want to appear rude, but I think your post shows quite clearly the actual problem of this game.

No offence taken as you simply expressing your thoughts without abusing the other side. Thats what all discussions should be.

 

3 hours ago, toblerone said:

The lack of understanding of what makes a MMO Worth playing for the average player, which is …. guess what … FUN.

FUN is subjective. What fun for you, is not fun for me.

While I agree with you, this has nothing to do with what this post is about. Right now I'm talking about THE tutorial and THE exams as a separate thing while they are not. But they should be.

Tutorial is for new players to learn the basics. Exam (especially the way its done) is for very experienced players. I suggest we separate the two and reward players for both separately.
Consumables rewarded sooner for completing the tutorial and XP rewarded for passing finals.

Also I suggest to stop helping players to complete the exams.

Now, I dont mean to be rude, but your comment shows exactly why this game stopped being fun as it was long time ago .

We hold players hands too much. The OW should have been hardcore dangerous, less mechanics to stop players do and act as they wish.

Edited June 21, 2019 by koltes

[toblerone]

40 minutes ago, koltes said:

No offence taken as you simply expressing your thoughts without abusing the other side. Thats what all discussions should be.

 

FUN is subjective. What fun for you, is not fun for me.

While I agree with you, this has nothing to do with what this post is about. Right now I'm talking about THE tutorial and THE exams as a separate thing while they are not. But they should be.

Tutorial is for new players to learn the basics. Exam (especially the way its done) is for very experienced players. I suggest we separate the two and reward players for both separately.
Consumables rewarded sooner for completing the tutorial and XP rewarded for passing finals.

Also I suggest to stop helping players to complete the exams.

Now, I dont mean to be rude, but your comment shows exactly why this game stopped being fun as it was long time ago .

We hold players hands too much. The OW should have been hardcore dangerous, less mechanics to stop players do and act as they wish.

Strange thing is that I would also reroll the game back of a couple of years. That version of the game was more funny both for vets and newbies

Problem - in fact - is not helping newbies or not helping them in getting a better rank, the problem is the AWFUL GRIND the game must imply for every player (vet or new) to induce players to buy DLC.

Awful grind in ranks

Beyond awful grind in becoming abble to build ships

Awful grind to get materials

almost inexistent rewards for killing NPCs

Last exam is not there to teach anything to anyone, it's there to allow vets to have an immediate advantage on newbies in first weeks after launch so that they can gain xp faster by sealclubbing (but - mind - an advantage that also veterans can exploit properly just buying soon a DLC ship, and here's the trick).

Boredom and "hardcore" (but let''s call sealclubbing exping) will kill the fun for the most part on new players.

Fun is subjective, as you say, but if game features are not fun for 800 new players and are fun for 300 veterans, this has an objective impact on game population and - therefore - on the game itself.

You propose to make it even more hardcore? I could even agree with you, but only if the game would be changed in order to make it at least FUN also for the new players. Because the "hardcore" style with such a long, slow paced, monotonous and poor rewarded grind may by fun for veterans but it's not for most newbies (and, mate, I have 7000 hours in this game, so I know what I am talking about).

Making it more hardcore as it is now, without a HUGE reduction of the grind, would mean just getting back to the usual 400ish playerbase.

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by toblerone

[Vizzini]

Well, the tutorial isn't mandatory but at least it was a step in the right direction to try and show players the basic controls and methods of how to sail. Specifically manual sailing

Without this i feel new players would get frustrated and leave. Of course, many players are now whining that the exams are too hard and I guess many would not bother and continue to level the old ways.

Some are of course only doing the tutorials for the rewards and instant xp boost, they know how to sail already

 

The learning curve is steep enough , the player base ( without reinforcement zones ) won't bother helping the noobs enough and the game is harsh on anybody just starting out. Just look at some of the comments the new players receive when asking basic questions.

 

If you really think that the tutorial , on it's own is a bad thing for new players. I don't know what to say. Their hand isn't held , they aren't forced to take the tutorial

 

what you say here

28 minutes ago, koltes said:

FUN is subjective. What fun for you, is not fun for me.

and then later

 

28 minutes ago, koltes said:

Now, I dont mean to be rude, but your comment shows exactly why this game stopped being fun as it was long time ago .

makes me think you're viewing the game from only your pov and not from that of a potential new player

 

Without new players, the game dies and dies fairly quickly