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Pirate ROE Mechanics  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Pirates have their own mechanics

    • Yes
      34
    • No
      3
    • Maybe
      3
  2. 2. Which Pirate ROE mechanics should be implemented? (multiple choice)

    • Outlaw Battles (Rats vs Rats only)
      24
    • Rats vs Rats and other nations can join either side of battle
      24
    • Rats can join both sides of a battle
      24
    • The same Rat clan can join both sides of a battle
      10
    • The same Rat clan can join only 1 side of a battle
      12
    • Rat vs Rat battles must be "to the death" rules
      5
    • Rat vs Rat battles must be "to the death" rules only if other nations are present
      1
    • Rats leaving their clan to be able to join both sides of battle should be blocked from clan invites for a number of days
      5
    • If Rats don't fight or impede their team they should be banned temporarily
      3
    • If Rats don't fight or impede their team they should be banned long term
      1
    • If Rats don't fight or impede their team they should be banned forever
      2


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And...discuss. Make more suggestions if you think rat roe should return

#BringBackOutlawBattles with changes

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when it comes to a battle like Brits Vs French, pirates should NOT be able to join both sides. When one pirate choose a side, other pirates must choose that side.

 

Pirates Should get Outlaw battles back - and those battles should be the true FFA battle.

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What the actual hello kitty with all those "What pirate RoE in general should be like"?

Pirates should decide what Pirates should be like

Edited by Beeekonda
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For one pirates are not a nation, pirates are outlaws and outlaw is a status. You commit a crime and you become an outlaw, you privateer without adjudication, you are a pirate.

We have pirates only in name, they're just an ahistorical nation in this game, not real pirates. We don't have privateering so I don't think we can have pirates yet, that requires some lore building.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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remove them from RvR, turn Mort into a Neutral port for all to use that zone.  Make a lot of extra shallow ports called Pirate havens bases for pirates.   Let them be an impossible nation if they do do RvR and only can work out of free towns and pirate havens (all havens are shallow ports).   Keep pirate mechanic where they can join either side and bring back FFA.  

There we have a pirate mechanic that is within reason and for them to simply code.

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Pirate ROE is fine as-is. Add back pirate-on-pirate battles and be done with it.

Pirates are a cutthroat group with one of the easiest capitals to farm (I know this because I've farmed Mort for EZ PvP before). Sometimes these treacherous pirates get crafty and pretend to help both sides of a battle, when in reality they're only in it for themselves.

EXAMPLE:

I join your side of a battle to help you sink your enemy, my friend joins your enemy's side and sinks you; then my friend and I sail away together, laughing all the way home. (Till one of us insults the other and it leads to cannonfire between us.) May the best sea dog win! 

I'd like to see more in-depth Pirate mechanics, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. If the forced alliances happen, Pirates can be the only stand-alone group. It'll work nicely: a group of cutthroat mercenaries who can work for themselves or be hired by other nations to help. But beware, even your own fellow sailors under the black flag could be your enemy! Remove the reinforcement/capital zone around Mortimer as well. Make Pirates truly "hardcore mode."

 

As a side note, I do love to see the whining about mechanics that have been in the game for years now, used all the time and the handful of complaints were addressed by developers stating that mechanics are working as intended. Then Redii makes a post and its all of a sudden the worst thing ever. :lol:

 

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20 minutes ago, William Death said:

EXAMPLE:

I join your side of a battle to help you sink your enemy, my friend joins your enemy's side and sinks you; then my friend and I sail away together, laughing all the way home. (Till one of us insults the other and it leads to cannonfire between us.) May the best sea dog win! 

 

 

that's literally the example that we don't want.

If you have friends on the other side and you don't help kill them with you're "green side" then why should the Brits not want to shoot you off their team? Then they get punished for it because you can abuse the join battle system and they can't?

Come on Willis - lets not make it seem fair to the 2 nations that get tossed around because of it. Any other group doing this is not only tribunal worthy, it's a shitty thing to do.

You can enter 1 side with a 1st rate, bugger up the BR levels specifically so your friends can join the other side and you then reap the rewards of killing both sides? that's utter nonsense.

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49 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

that's literally the example that we don't want.

If you have friends on the other side and you don't help kill them with you're "green side" then why should the Brits not want to shoot you off their team? Then they get punished for it because you can abuse the join battle system and they can't?

Come on Willis - lets not make it seem fair to the 2 nations that get tossed around because of it. Any other group doing this is not only tribunal worthy, it's a shitty thing to do.

You can enter 1 side with a 1st rate, bugger up the BR levels specifically so your friends can join the other side and you then reap the rewards of killing both sides? that's utter nonsense.

39579a663dbb697f6ec18ae2b89c1f56.jpg 

"PIRATE"

Pirate, is the operative word. If you notice, I suggest to add pirate-on-pirate battles again. This is the "risk" to compensate the "reward" of getting to join both sides of other nation's battles. 

Any other nation could and should be tribunaled for doing this. Because they're a nation. If France and Spain are at war, England can't agree to help both the French and the Spanish.

Pirates, however, can. And they can double-cross and backstab all they please, because they're pirates.  

 

Regarding your comment about the BR raising so friends can join: yeah, thats a crap mechanic. But that'll happen with or without pirate's ability to join both sides. Anytime someone enters a battle, then escapes, their BR isn't taken away. So you could pay a defector from another nation to enter one side and then escape, raising the BR so friends can join. Technically he's done nothing specifically against the rules that I can think of. But its a dirty move. 

Nasty little loopholes and misuse of mechanics are the result of poor mechanics which rely on artificial ratings of ships which don't accurately portray a ship's worth in a battle.

Which is why I say yet again, battles should be open for any player who saw the crossed swords at the start of the battle (if within render distance), and 2 minutes for everyone else. Simple and effective. If pirates are present than you should be aware they might or might not help you, your enemy, or both ;).

 

Now, if you want to make the argument that Pirates are just another nation, I'll agree, and maybe they should have the same mechanics as all other nations. But if the game is being made with the intention to make Pirates something different than just another nation, then the mechanic needs to stay, so pirates can be proper mercenaries.

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

that's literally the example that we don't want.

If you have friends on the other side and you don't help kill them with you're "green side" then why should the Brits not want to shoot you off their team? Then they get punished for it because you can abuse the join battle system and they can't?

Come on Willis - lets not make it seem fair to the 2 nations that get tossed around because of it. Any other group doing this is not only tribunal worthy, it's a shitty thing to do.

You can enter 1 side with a 1st rate, bugger up the BR levels specifically so your friends can join the other side and you then reap the rewards of killing both sides? that's utter nonsense.

Easy solution for this is to simply make all pirates red no matter the side they join.  They jump on your side and don't help you, you have all the rights to sink them, they are pirates after all. Bring back FFA battles also, the only folks that abused them was nationals using pirate alts.  So what if you make them hard core mode than they won't be a big RvR threat (like they where on GLOBAL) and folks wouldn't have to use the FFA's to catch pirates in green zones either (which I agree with Willis they need to be removed from Mort and Mort made more a Neutral zone for all nations to use.  Would prob make it a PvP hot spot that isn't a zone.

Honestly if they go to a more hard core pirate I would be more active in that nation than I'm now. Hell I do have a solo none clan pirate mid level that I been playing in the mornings when I get off work.  I kinda miss the old solo days when I was part of no clan cause there is no drama and now with the elite AI I can actually capture some better ships than just using DLC ships.   That and no one brings good ships into the PvP zone so you just sink every thing there.

 

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pirates should be able to join both sides but green on green rules dont apply to them, what king is gonna punish a captain that killed pirate ?

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4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Easy solution for this is to simply make all pirates red no matter the side they join.  They jump on your side and don't help you, you have all the rights to sink them, they are pirates after all. Bring back FFA battles also, the only folks that abused them was nationals using pirate alts.  So what if you make them hard core mode than they won't be a big RvR threat (like they where on GLOBAL) and folks wouldn't have to use the FFA's to catch pirates in green zones either (which I agree with Willis they need to be removed from Mort and Mort made more a Neutral zone for all nations to use.  Would prob make it a PvP hot spot that isn't a zone.

Honestly if they go to a more hard core pirate I would be more active in that nation than I'm now. Hell I do have a solo none clan pirate mid level that I been playing in the mornings when I get off work.  I kinda miss the old solo days when I was part of no clan cause there is no drama and now with the elite AI I can actually capture some better ships than just using DLC ships.   That and no one brings good ships into the PvP zone so you just sink every thing there.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Rune said:

pirates should be able to join both sides but green on green rules dont apply to them, what king is gonna punish a captain that killed pirate ?

^I like these solutions, simple and easy to do. 

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No fresh minded person would consider keeping pirates a nation. The correct thinking is that one starts off as citizenry, they become a privateer, or an officer in a nation. They break a law, attack an ally, sink a trader, they get excommunicated into outlaw status. They become a pirate. That's how it works, not in anyway that the people in this thread imply. You pirates who want the benefit of a collective nation while also having EXTRA mechanics to yourselves. Seriously, get real. You play too much fantasy pirate nation. People want the real deal, not the silly parody.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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We already had a mechanic that turned us pirates when attacking same nation or allies. People had no idea it would do that and so complained when they were turned pirate without meaning to and lost all their things.

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4 hours ago, William Death said:

 

^I like these solutions, simple and easy to do. 

there will need to be some new way to stop pirates from taking up all of the slot from the "real" nations so its not gonna be easy fix. if they try to do it

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Please stop with "Pirates should do what they want, because history"

If so, I'd like to see other nations beein able to join and fight side by side in PBs, because history - like f.e. Spain and France fought together in Trafalgar.

 

No double standards please.

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2 hours ago, van der Decken said:

We already had a mechanic that turned us pirates when attacking same nation or allies. People had no idea it would do that and so complained when they were turned pirate without meaning to and lost all their things.

I honestly liked that system it was how my clan UNKN want pirate back in the day after getting tired of US players like NPG showing up in  crap ships to fight. Our clan actually had pirates pushed back to Mayguanna and the shallows when we switched so it wasn’t jumping to the better team at that time it was going to the more organized fighters.   I honestly thinks pirates should not be a chargen fresh pick.  You have to either do it in game or with forge papers.

28 minutes ago, OjK said:

Please stop with "Pirates should do what they want, because history"

If so, I'd like to see other nations beein able to join and fight side by side in PBs, because history - like f.e. Spain and France fought together in Trafalgar.

 

No double standards please.

We will get that back with faction play

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Outlaw Battles (Rats vs Rats only) / Rats vs Rats and other nations can join either side of battle / Rats can join both sides of a battle  / The same Rat clan can join both sides of a battle / The same Rat clan can join only 1 side of a battle / Rat vs Rat battles must be "to the death" rules only if other nations are present - it was already exploited to hide big fleet inside (national or allied nation) , so NO

Rat vs Rat battles must be "to the death" rules - dangerous, can be exploited by tagging a basic cutter with a PB full fleet to hide inside and then killing the cutter. good idea but it must be limited by BR and similar rank join (attacking a 5th rate only with a 4th,5th or 6th rate) and it must be to the death without capturing the surredered target. only sink

If Rats don't fight or impede their team they should be banned forever  - BIG YES, every player should be banned forever for joining battle only to rise BR for the other team join

 

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Pirates should be special, no nation at all, and most freedom. It's a pity the given multiple choices only focus on 'who could fight whom and when', there is so much more imaginable for pirates. And numerous suggestions have been made to that matter. The best was about being able to establish own hideouts on the map which keep secret until getting discovered by somebody else and then can be attacked.

Devs only have to play 'treasure hunt' and dig out ideas from the beaches of this forum.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac

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Outlaw Battles (Rats vs Rats only)

does this mean other nations could not join? That shouldn't be an option simply because I don't want to hear all the nationals complaining that a pirate attacked their friend to escape or hide or otherwise avoid fighting.

Rats vs Rats and other nations can join either side of battle <- this is a good option. 

8 hours ago, William Death said:

As a side note, I do love to see the whining about mechanics that have been in the game for years now, used all the time and the handful of complaints were addressed by developers stating that mechanics are working as intended. Then Redii makes a post and its all of a sudden the worst thing ever. :lol:

^Literally years of pirates joining both sides of battles and suddenly it's new information to all the nationals.

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42 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

Outlaw Battles (Rats vs Rats only)

does this mean other nations could not join? That shouldn't be an option simply because I don't want to hear all the nationals complaining that a pirate attacked their friend to escape or hide or otherwise avoid fighting.

Rats vs Rats and other nations can join either side of battle <- this is a good option. 

^Literally years of pirates joining both sides of battles and suddenly it's new information to all the nationals.

Yah it cracks me up how much they complained about us tagging each other to never join the fight when they out numbered us and found we didn’t move from center.  FFA battles was positional join so all you need was the spotter to join and call it.

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2 hours ago, Rune said:

there will need to be some new way to stop pirates from taking up all of the slot from the "real" nations so its not gonna be easy fix. if they try to do it

How to stop pirates from joining both sides all the time if the proposed mechanics in the quote were brought in? Ally your nation with them, or just work with the other nation to sink them and then move on to sinking each other like gentlemen without the dirty pirates around ;).

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Add the only way to become pirate is by attacking own faction

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59 minutes ago, William Death said:

How to stop pirates from joining both sides all the time if the proposed mechanics in the quote were brought in? Ally your nation with them, or just work with the other nation to sink them and then move on to sinking each other like gentlemen without the dirty pirates around ;).

nope wont work, there will need to a mechanic in game to controle it or pirates could all join one side and close it for all others and then leave and join the other side or they could sail around in 25 le requins and just troll other ppl battle by closeing them or talking spots from nations players

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33 minutes ago, Rune said:

nope wont work, there will need to a mechanic in game to controle it or pirates could all join one side and close it for all others and then leave and join the other side or they could sail around in 25 le requins and just troll other ppl battle by closeing them or talking spots from nations players

No. You can’t leave and join the other side. If you were in an instance and you leave, that instance is closed to you unless they very recently changed something. And joining just to raise br and then leaving could be considered griefing and punishable? 

Having *different* pirate players in both sides is fine, as long as they actually do something not just kite around. Which is griefing....which is punishable by the same rules that govern other nationals griefing. 

Your last point:

Any nation can roll in a requin troll fleet and steal spots in battles, not just pirates. I agree it’s annoying. Thankfully enough people hate that ship that it’s not common to find 25 players willing to sail them all together for the sole purpose of annoying others. 🙃

 

I don’t think people understand how battle joining mechanics work for their own nations. Because pirates have exactly the same ROE with the minor difference being that instead of all having to join one side of a nation vs nation battle, some can join one side and some can join the other. As long as both sides are fighting against the nations, and not griefing, I don’t see a problem. It’s that simple.

I understand the frustration that could happen if you were fighting some Brits and pirates joined both sides but refused to shoot each other, instead only focusing the two nations involved. To solve this, do what Sir Texas suggested and make pirates red to both sides if they join a battle Free agents/third party/mercenary mode. 

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4 minutes ago, William Death said:

I understand the frustration that could happen if you were fighting some Brits and pirates joined both sides but refused to shoot each other, instead only focusing the two nations involved. To solve this, do what Sir Texas suggested and make pirates red to both sides if they join a battle Free agents/third party/mercenary mode.

I would love that.  Several times I have joined a battle, only to find out I am on the same side as a player who is farming AI. 

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