Make The Secret Islands a safe haven for all nations

[Sang Noir]

With the new port upgrades I wondered how any nation could get out of a corner if they lost all ports or only have the national ports remaining. Because their ships will lack the port upgrades and they won't have woods like White Oak or Teak available.

Maybe it would be viable to make The Secret Islands a haven for all nations to replenish:

• North Inlet, Rum Cove  and Kidd's Harbor become Freetowns
• One of these towns has all the ports bonuses available (or each is specialized in a certain bonus)
• They have all the resources available to craft ships and cannons
• White Oak, Teak and Live Oak become available without investment (buildings produce only at 50% of the usual rate)
• There is a No-Attack zone around these towns (for safe hauling)
• Tows to Nations capitals only (NO tows to frontlines)
• NO bonuses to labor hours discount
• NO possibility to craft purple or golden ships
• NO upgradable buildings
• NO drops of any other items
• NO hostility missions can be taken to any neighboring ports
• NO passenger or cargo missions can be taken

Basically The Secret Islands would be a place that makes sure that every nation no matter how small has access to well built ships for Port Battles. It would be a spot for retreating and replenishing and serves as an Equalizer.

It would also make The Secret Islands a special place instead of just another port to capture.

+ more ships =  more chances, more battles, more contest

Thanks for your comments.

Edited May 20, 2019 by Son of Surcouf

[Isaac J Smith]

That would completely remove the incentive for anyone to capture ports except for bragging rights. All shipbuilding for all nations would just move there, because no risk.

 

I agree that Nations stuck with just their capital (ie: DA-NO right now) or worse should have some form of assistance, but I don't think that is the way to do it. Maybe if a nation owns no county capitals, it's capital should get Lv2 upgrades until they capture a capital (just an example). Hardcore nations with no capital should remain as is, else they wouldn't be hardcore.

[Sang Noir]

8 minutes ago, Isaac J Smith said:

That would completely remove the incentive for anyone to capture ports except for bragging rights. All shipbuilding for all nations would just move there, because no risk.

Well, certainly a lot of people would start building their ships there, but:

• the ports wouldn't have the labor hours bonuses clan ports now have
• the buildings couldn't be upgraded so production would be a lot slower
• Tow restrictions prevent the Secret Islands from delivering an endless amount of ships

Edited May 20, 2019 by Son of Surcouf

[Sir Texas Sir]

Maybe he's making this suggestion for the PvE server?

[jodgi]

27 minutes ago, rediii said:

only because denmark doesnt play

... or it could be a symptom?

"The chicken and the egg"...

All this clan based stuff may work out fantastic, but I'm not betting even "et rødt øre".

[Sang Noir]

1. Derailing the topic - check!
2. Ignoring the suggestion - check!
3. Ridiculing the suggestion - check!
4. Talking about the petitioner in third person - check!
5. Trying to use language that makes you seem cool - check!

 

2 hours ago, Son of Surcouf said:

Thanks for your comments.

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Son of Surcouf

[Sang Noir]

2 hours ago, Isaac J Smith said:

Maybe if a nation owns no county capitals, it's capital should get Lv2 upgrades until they capture a capital (just an example).

Viable, but that wouldn't solve the problems about woods. Also, as soon as that nation captures a county capital, it would lose the upgrades again. It would need VMs to upgrade that port and before it would be able to do that, might lose all the ships again defending that port. It will never get past that one county capital. Besides, would Lv2 Upgrades really help against fully upgraded PB ships built with the right woods?

[Sang Noir]

57 minutes ago, rediii said:

symtpom of a "close" wipe and release?

Well, the good thing about the situation now is that it reflects the server in a state that it would reach only after a couple of weeks (months) after the wipe.

[Farrago]

6 hours ago, Son of Surcouf said:

With the new port upgrades I wondered how any nation could get out of a corner if they lost all ports or only have the national ports remaining. Because their ships will lack the port upgrades and they won't have woods like White Oak or Teak available.

Maybe it would be viable to make The Secret Islands a haven for all nations to replenish:

• North Inlet, Rum Cove  and Kidd's Harbor become Freetowns
• One of these towns has all the ports bonuses available (or each is specialized in a certain bonus)
• They have all the resources available to craft ships and cannons
• White Oak, Teak and Live Oak become available without investment (buildings produce only at 50% of the usual rate)
• There is a No-Attack zone around these towns (for safe hauling)
• Tows to Nations capitals only (NO tows to frontlines)
• NO bonuses to labor hours discount
• NO possibility to craft purple or golden ships
• NO upgradable buildings
• NO drops of any other items
• NO hostility missions can be taken to any neighboring ports
• NO passenger or cargo missions can be taken

Basically The Secret Islands would be a place that makes sure that every nation no matter how small has access to well built ships for Port Battles. It would be a spot for retreating and replenishing and serves as an Equalizer.

It would also make The Secret Islands a special place instead of just another port to capture.

+ more ships =  more chances, more battles, more contest

Thanks for your comments.

Why waste our time then with doing this to the secret islands. Just give us all a button to push to get the ship and/or materials we want. Oh, wait, they did already do that with DLC.

But I digress, I see no reason to implement your suggestion if we are going to keep RVR, port investements, hauling of materials in game. It would make them all a waste of time. Everything would be up in the island paradise.

i get that you worry what happens as one nation (or nations) fall further and further behind the power curve. In the past, those things have tended to work out. Ultimately we may need to deal with map wins and map wipes but just because nations fall behind that power curve doesn’t mean we should just get rid of the things that make a nation powerful.

[Sir Loorkon]

I hope the developers find a way out of this bonus systems. All those port bonuses combined with the books and upgrades are just to much in my eyes. I like the idea of port bonusses to create a „meaningfull“ RvR but all this is over the top. Creating an area like the hidden islands with a given bonus like you suggested here will make the situation even worse. 

Nerv all bonuses of ports, books and upgrades. Give each ship rate its own speed cap and lower the BR of the PB. Make standard blue 3/5 ships playable again. I do not want a grinding hell.

[Sang Noir]

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

Just give us all a button to push to get the ship and/or materials we want. Oh, wait, they did already do that with DLC.

You're taking it a bit to the extreme here. Ships won't be for free and I proposed some restrictions to make ship production easy there but not in a production line. There are no DLC ships for RVR.

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

It would make them all a waste of time.

The only thing that is a waste of time right now is The Grind. It's as if I proposed to have one week more of holidays and you said No to it because you love to work your ass off.

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

It would make them all a waste of time. Everything would be up in the island paradise.

Well, no. There would still be a lot of benefits from setting up your headquarters: decreased labor hours, upgradable production buildings, no tow restrictions, vicinity to frontlines, income from tax, better defenses, etc.

By the way I like that you call them an island paradise, because that's what there are right now for every nation holding them, the ultimate safe zone. Might as well call my proposition The Secret Islands Paradise.

But like I said, if you read my proposition, there would be a lot restrictions. So it's more of a hideout to lick your wounds instead of the whole Club Med experience.

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

i get that you worry what happens as one nation (or nations) fall further and further behind the power curve.

Well, I wouldn't call it worry, more of an observation about the game mechanic which seems to automatically lead to some nations floating dead in the waters (to use an appropriate wording here) after losing vital assets.

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

In the past, those things have tended to work out.

Did they? You are very optimistic.

16 hours ago, Farrago said:

Ultimately we may need to deal with map wins and map wipes but just because nations fall behind that power curve doesn’t mean we should just get rid of the things that make a nation powerful.

Map wipes would be a good thing for sure. Sort of like rounds. Everybody gets a new chance after a while.

What makes "nations" powerful in Naval Action are not just forts, port bonuses or rare woods, but the number of players. If you want attract more players, give them a chance to participate. And no, not by throwing them into the water as shark food with DLCs .

13 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I hope the developers find a way out of this bonus systems. All those port bonuses combined with the books and upgrades are just to much in my eyes.

I understand the reason they have been introduced. RVR basically was just about bragging rights before that. And I am not against the Bonuses. I think they are well implemented and well done. I like how clans can now produce rare woods. Maybe they need to be nerfed.

But those bonuses in the end only serve the strong to be even stronger. Right now there is no balance. Once the weak are defeated, they stay dead. They won't never get past the national ports again, unless other nations are willing to grant them capitals for free. But maybe you want to make sure a balance is implemented by game mechanic, not by good will of other players.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Son of Surcouf

[Farrago]

10 hours ago, Son of Surcouf said:

You're taking it a bit to the extreme here. Ships won't be for free and I proposed some restrictions to make ship production easy there but not in a production line. There are no DLC ships for RVR.

The only thing that is a waste of time right now is The Grind. It's as if I proposed to have one week more of holidays and you said No to it because you love to work your ass off.

Well, no. There would still be a lot of benefits from setting up your headquarters: decreased labor hours, upgradable production buildings, no tow restrictions, vicinity to frontlines, income from tax, better defenses, etc.

By the way I like that you call them an island paradise, because that's what there are right now for every nation holding them, the ultimate safe zone. Might as well call my proposition The Secret Islands Paradise.

But like I said, if you read my proposition, there would be a lot restrictions. So it's more of a hideout to lick your wounds instead of the whole Club Med experience.

Well, I wouldn't call it worry, more of an observation about the game mechanic which seems to automatically lead to some nations floating dead in the waters (to use an appropriate wording here) after losing vital assets.

Did they? You are very optimistic.

Map wipes would be a good thing for sure. Sort of like rounds. Everybody gets a new chance after a while.

What makes "nations" powerful in Naval Action are not just forts, port bonuses or rare woods, but the number of players. If you want attract more players, give them a chance to participate. And no, not by throwing them into the water as shark food with DLCs.

Perhaps I did write with too much hyperbole.

I recognize that you proposed restrictions on the secret island use. However, the benefits you mention of having ports somewhere else would be outweighed by the safety and ease you propose of building in the secret islands.

It just didn’t work in a game to design a mechanic and then provide a means to completely circumvent that mechanic.

I am optimistic about ultra strong nations not lasting forever. They may last a long time but eventually it gets boring, personalities start clashing, it’s harder to work together the more people you have, and jealousies develop. There has always been a way in game to be the strongest. But which nation has always been the strongest? Not one.

Anyway, it’s clear that I don’t agree with your secret island proposal. I would like to see things in game to simulate the difficulties of ruling a vast empire, thus putting more pressure on the Zerg if it exists. Exponentially rising port costs, depletion of overfarmed resources, unhappy populations, clan wars, bonus for joining small nation... there are many ways to do this without creating a mechanic to “go around” normal gameplay.

Fair sails. 

[Sang Noir]

13 hours ago, Farrago said:

It just didn’t work in a game to design a mechanic and then provide a means to completely circumvent that mechanic.

 

Maybe just try to see past what's intuitively logical. I don't know about the place you live in, but in the country I live in right now, if you knock somebody down (might be self-defense) and you see the guy lying on the floor, you are obliged by law to render first aid. If you don't, you will get sued for failure to render assistance.  Doesn't seem intuitively logical but that's the way it is (at least in civil society): knock him down, help him.

You may go as far and look for examples for warfare in the second half of the 20th century: you win a war, you help the nation you fought against to get back up again.

Why should it be helpful in a game to completely dominate your opponent when it will only lead to him not playing with you anymore?

 

14 hours ago, Farrago said:

I am optimistic about ultra strong nations not lasting forever.

True. When playing Sid Meier's Civ IV there always was this one Civ that was going strong against you. Once you dominated that one, the game became essentially boring. I probably played more close or losing games to the end, than the winning ones, because there was no challenge in the latter. But the ones I quit the most, where those where I could see early on that I wouldn't stand a chance.

1. Close to losing games - playing to the end
2. Winning games - boring
3. No chance games - would quit

 

14 hours ago, Farrago said:

But which nation has always been the strongest? Not one. 

True, but in NA it was mostly changes coming because of the development that dealt out the cards anew and caused the most changes to the dynamics on the map, not? Ultimately it was changes in game mechanics, not solely player decisions that caused shifts in power.

 

14 hours ago, Farrago said:

Anyway, it’s clear that I don’t agree with your secret island proposal.

Great. And I am not going to crusade for it. Thank you for the valuable input.

 

14 hours ago, Farrago said:

I would like to see things in game to simulate the difficulties of ruling a vast empire, thus putting more pressure on the Zerg if it exists. Exponentially rising port costs, depletion of overfarmed resources, unhappy populations, clan wars, bonus for joining small nation...

Yep, me too. It's important that winning means having to carry more costs and responsibility for what you just conquered, so that shifts in power become an inevitability by game mechanics.

 

14 hours ago, Farrago said:

Fair sails. 

You too.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

I like that approach, it gives Kidd's Island a special character other than just not being depicted on the map. For both PvP and PvE servers.

What would come out of this, has to be observed once devs give this a try.

Too many times ideas get sunk because everyone keeps anticipating the worst consequences they claim those would have. In fact some players are ultraconservative when it comes to promising changes which... kinda make them feel insecure while loving (and complaining) to stay in their trotten paths.

[Sang Noir]

15 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

What would come out of this, has to be observed once devs give this a try.

And that's the great thing about this game, that the Devs have been trying out so many things. I wish Civilization VI had a development team that would have tried out mechanics so thoroughly before release.

[Ruuster_IV]

Rediii. Danmark-Norge still plays. We are just somewhat low on players.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

8 players can flip a port in around 40-50 minutes. Denmark flipped 0 ports since wipe

denmark doesnt play

The high BR of port battles probably means they just don't bother as they know they can't fill it.

[Gregory Rainsborough]

Just now, rediii said:

poland, dutch and usa cant fill it either tbh

They can, they just can't fill it with many good players.

US have filled 25k PBs recently though not sure on exact numbers of other two.