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Barbarosa

Battle timers, join circles, ganging and Solo Play

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Problem :

  • Battle initiations can be abused very easily and result in many ganging battles.
    • You can keep half of the fleet in distance while baiting with single ship. Ships not visible in horizon appears (teleports) in your battle in no time. 2 minute timer is a long one comparing ow speed.
    • Baiting was used since beginning to drag enemies into traps. That creates lost of frustration which diverts players out of the game.
    • Sailing alone is becoming rarer and rarer. You never know when some enemy will drop from the sky right behind you.
  • 20 minute timer based on BR adds some interesting options but yet it is far away of being immersive.
    • If you are in a higher BR like constitution and attacking Agamemnon, you should always be ready for a Bellona dropping from the sky in next 20 minutes.
  • The position you entered the battle keeps changing in another parallel realm called open world. 
    • when you were engaging the enemy, empty sea turns to a death trap after the battle, full with revenge seekers.
  • Everything above, forces you to sail in a group. Adding you as another ganging squad.
    • Solo playing style is important and should have place if you want the game to succeed. Best gang win mentality has no future.

Solution :

JOINING BATTLE:

  • Keep the battles open till the end.
  • Inside battle, mark the enemy and ally join directions on mini map.
  • People should join the battle based on time they are entering. Place the ship away from center of the battle as following:
    • Keep the center of battle as reference point. Coordinate (o,o), OW speed multiplier = 4 (whatever it is)
    • If 1 minute passed in battle : Ship speed 13 kn (6,69 m/s), (60x4) x 6,69 = 1.605m.(OW distance when battle started).  1605 - (60x 6.69) = spawns 1.203m away from start point (we assume ship sailed for 1 min in battle instance).
    • If 1 minute passed in battle: Ships sped is 10.5 kn (= 5,40 m/s), (60x4) x 5,40 = 1.269m (OW distance when battle started). 1269-(60x5,40) = spawns 945m away from start point (for ships outside, slower ships should be closer to able to join in same time with faster ships)
    • If 10 minutes passed in battle : Ship speed 13kn (6,69m/s), (10x60x4) x 6,69 = 16.056m (OW distance when battle started). 16.056-(10x60x6,69) = spawns 12.042m away from start point
    • if 10 minutes passed in battle: Sip speed 10.5kn (5,40m/s), (10x60x4) x 5,40 = 12.960m (OW distance when battle started). 12.960 - (10x60x5,40) = spawns 9.720m away from start point
    • Briefly we are putting them in their respective places when battle started + assuming them sailed same time inside battle.
    • Condition 1 - Battle is very close to land or distance calculation considering join directions are on land: Move the ship to closest sea tile, with closest direction for calculated distance.
    • Condition 2 - Somebody sails out of the port and joins or the battle is right in front of port: Join him as above, keep the distance and move him to corresponding sea tile, far away from his actual position. We are simulating arrival time (which is important) not starting position.
  • Put a timer on battle screen outside in OW, people should know if it is worth joining or not.
  • As a captain in instance if you wish to run, hoping for help go to your ally join direction. That way you will get closer to friendly late joiners.
  • EDIT:  Possible exploit, people joining battles to escape enemy.
    • OW threat has higher priority, hence we can introduce 10 sec stationary joining time to allow anyone outside to able to attack you.
      • Your timer resets as soon as someone start targeting you (if BR check of attacker fail after 10 sec, you join). e.g : You clicked, enemy start attacking you at 9th sec. Your time reset but server keeps checking for BR difference, informing player with a message. If BR fail at your 19th sec, you join and battle start loading.
      • your spawning distance will be calculated according to time you click to join (your arrival time).
    • BR difference, battle group rules for tagging still apply to avoid exploits.

EXITING BATTLE:

  • Give two options on exit screen.
    1. Stay where you are in OW : You pop up outside ready to be attacked and attack. No invisibility timer.
    2. Sail away: Depending on the time spend in battle you gain invisibility and you can not see other players meanwhile.(to avoid exploit) (Formula : 10√x+x/2, you can find the better one)
      • 5 min in battle: 10√5 +5/2 = 22,3 +2,5 = 24,8 sec invisibility (no speed boost)
      • 10 min in battle: 10√10 =31,6 + 5 = 37, 1 sec invisibility (no speed boost)
      • 45 min in battle: 10√45 +45/2= 67 + 22,5 = 89,5 sec invisibility (no speed boost)
      • 90 min in battle: 10√90 + 90/2=94,8 + 45 = 139.8 sec invisibility (no speed boost)
  • If player attacks AI:
    1. Only one option will be available to leave battle : Stay where you are in OW (to avoid exploits)
    2. IF any enemy joins during the battle, regardless if he stays, sinks, leave; the second option to "sail away" become available.

BENEFITS:

  • Total immersion and simulation. No magical beamed ships appearing on water.
  • What you see is what you fight
  • Sailing closer in OW become important = better immersion and predictibility
  • No more Ganging traps
  • More enjoyable fights!
  • FINALLY SOLO OPTION FOR THE GAME, which is crucial.
Edited by Barbarosa
  • Like 18

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I feel this is absolutely needed, but also possible difficult.

Already there are so many rules and regulations in battle instances from OW and in battle that people are confused and in many cases still don't understand it.

Just yesterday we had to have some folks learn about the 13% BR factor to show if a side can join or not past the 2 minute mark. the response was "Why would I want to be spending time doing a math equation to see whether I can get in or not?"

I personally feel the rules of Battles and how to get into them should be simplified.

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13 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I feel this is absolutely needed, but also possible difficult.

Already there are so many rules and regulations in battle instances from OW and in battle that people are confused and in many cases still don't understand it.

Just yesterday we had to have some folks learn about the 13% BR factor to show if a side can join or not past the 2 minute mark. the response was "Why would I want to be spending time doing a math equation to see whether I can get in or not?"

I personally feel the rules of Battles and how to get into them should be simplified. 

I agree. All the calculations above are made for developers or just to show the result.

For players, you will see the timer on battle and decide if you want to join or not. Battle remains open till the end. Nothing to calculate for a player. Later you join further away you will spawn. That simple.

If you sail closer to enemy join direction more closer you will get to enemy late joiners, if you sail to ally one more closer to allies.

Since late joiners will spawn far away depending on timer, more time for you to enjoy your battle.

Besides I am not putting any limitations or rules. No BR limit, no join timer, nothing.

Edited by Barbarosa
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4 hours ago, Barbarosa said:

 

  • mark the enemy and ally join directions on mini map.
  •  
  • Briefly we are putting them in their respective places when battle started + assuming them sailed same time inside battle.
  •  
  • Put a timer on battle screen outside in OW, people should know if it is worth joining or not.
  •  
  • If player attacks AI:  Only one option will be available to leave battle : Stay where you are in OW (to avoid exploits)

Love these!  It actually seems way more straightforward to me than the current system. 

 

Wonderful! +1 :) Naval Action needs this... the way battles are right now is just too unrealistic and honestly it can be game-breaking

I have long hoped for someone to find a good way to transition late-comers into battle instance :) wonderful!

 

If this is implemented, I would start playing the game again in earnest... it could solve so, so many problems people have with current RoE.

 

Admin, please!

Edited by Sir "The Lorax" John
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5189032017de5650459a5c6253085109.jpg

 

You seriously underestimate how far people would be willing to sail in an instance if it meant even a remote possibility of pulling off the usual gank. Not the mention the tackling tags that would happen just to stop someones ship and immediately disengage in order to give their quarry the lowest possible invisibility timer and then dog-pile in afterwards with their always open instance

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Totally support the idea. The OW battle instances will be a much better proposition with a reasonably realistic delayed arrival system. With a delay system, battle can remain open for longer with hardly any negative side effect, I suppose.

The proposed distance-based mechanics looks spot on. If however coding that will be complicated / impossible, adding time delay might be a simpler to implement alternative. I mean opposing sides enter the battle in respective joining zone, but when in battle they are "released" (basically can sail and fight) only after a certain time corresponding to how late they join. For example, joining after 2 mins would mean 2 mins of "in-battle delay".  Or, a multiplier can be applied: e.g. 1 min in OW to be translated into 2 (or more?) mins in-battle time. Proximity of released and not yet released ships might be an issue, but hopefully not a show stopper. Since battle normally moves away from the starting point quite quickly, delayed released might work as well. 

 

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It's a great idea and you obviously put a lot of thought into it.  To be honest, you could almost get the same level of solo play fairness if you simply allowed battle entry to those who were in sight of the swords when battle commenced.  For exiting, make it a 45 sec invisibility and speed boost. 

I like your idea a lot for the reason that late joiners would be far away from the initial battle participants but that OTHER late joiners might be close to them and a second fight could occur.  Very realistic, I think.

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9 hours ago, Barbarosa said:

Dear admin,

What do we need to do to qualify as worthy testers in your eyes?

Regards

I feel you mate :) 

btw exactly my thoughts on ROE, so that means many people thinking similiar because it is logical and natural.

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I love this idea, but it is confusing and maybe a bit difficult to program, especially with battles near land. also people may complain about positioning. I advocate simply a variable time to wait before being allowed to enter the battle. Since ships move twice as fast in OW as they do in a battle, double the amount of time someone has to wait according to how long the battle has been in progress. if the battle is a minute old, make the new joiner wait two minutes.  I feel like this would be very easy to code, as all of the supporting elements are already in the game. 

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