The Timer Problem

[Msk]

Easy solution, no Eu times at all, this entire thing takes place in the carribean play it by carribean times making it much closer to us est then all! Joy and happiness for everyone then cause realism! 

 

 

Oh wait wait it’s a video game with people all over the world, the Russians took kids from us during our prime time no crying about timers and good in them. We got beat and they were relentless see what happens when you want to do it? In the mean time.

 

 

if you like it you shoulda put a timer on it. And timers are home with only having to secure the capital to secure the region. Stop crying and fight the game. If it doesn’t have a timer and get flipped by someone at a different time then you’re playing clearly you didn’t care enough to hold the port, it’s a fact of life empires get large and because of that vulnerable. Same thing in game with having to maintain timers.

 

brief edit, there is always this thing called diplomacy when you can try to work with a clan not In your time zone to achieve what is needed, i k ow WO paid havoc back when they were Dutch to help with north inlet and worked with the Prussians back when banished was running the show to have Eu representation when needed. These same nations complaining can try to you know, talk to these other timezones instead of looking down on them to get something done go they can’t be be bothered getting their asses out of bed on a weekend.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Msk

[Guest]

[Rabman]

On 5/5/2019 at 10:20 AM, Tiedemann said:

I disagree. 2 GB regional capitals bordering to Russia front lines just happens to have 02.00 - 05.00 defence timers. This basically prevent Russia to move forwards on these front lines. So we are locked in place. Region county = Portobelo and Port-au-Prince.

Imo they are obviously used to AVOID COMBAT and that is a real exploit.

The answer is clearly to partner with a nighttime fleet and you cover both zones and get what you want.  

Edited May 14, 2019 by Rabman

[RedNeckMilkMan]

ITT, 60-70% of the population complain that only 90% of the ports have timers within their prime time. 

I'm losing brain cells reading this.

Edited May 14, 2019 by RedNeckMilkMan

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

ITT, 60-70% of the population complain that only 90% of the ports have timers within their prime time. 

I'm losing brain cells reading this.

There you have it folks. Timer's even when statistically working will not pass the player-fun phycological test.

I guess I was right then? If you want good RVR you have to have CAMPAIGN, no timers. Port capture consisting of many battles lasting over days of fighting, not just one battle falling into a single hour.

You actually have to align RVR with real war, it's the only way. All the flaws of the current system, low pop involvement, strict timers, heavy planning compared to little content, gotta overhaul the entire thing. 

Yes that means zergs, yes that means night attacks, yes that means your clan no longer having exclusive rights to the pb, that's the price you pay for good region v region content.

what you do is let the attacker attack on his terms, have the hostility start, start a tally, add up points for ships sunk, points held, objective achieved, troops landed, whatever. At the end of 3 days the side with the most points wins the port. In concept it's that easy. 

Current PB system is beta shit, a single battle, what are we, virgins? get outa here with that shit. Give us real war scenarios not this MOBA crap. I know that's the desired direction because front lines. They don't work because timers restrict lattice movement.

Just redo it all, even if you get the 1 battle pb to work, you'll be stop gapped at 1k players when only 25 per side can participate. I'm telling you it's a dead end.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[RedNeckMilkMan]

12 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

There you have it folks. Timer's even when statistically working will not pass the player-fun phycological test.

I guess I was right then? If you want good RVR you have to have CAMPAIGN, no timers. Port capture consisting of many battles lasting over days of fighting, not just one battle falling into a single hour.

You actually have to align RVR with real war, it's the only way. All the flaws of the current system, low pop involvement, strict timers, heavy planning compared to little content, gotta overhaul the entire thing. 

Yes that means zergs, yes that means night attacks, yes that means your clan no longer having exclusive rights to the pb, that's the price you pay for good region v region content.

what you do is let the attacker attack on his terms, have the hostility start, start a tally, add up points for ships sunk, points held, objective achieved, troops landed, whatever. At the end of 3 days the side with the most points wins the port. In concept it's that easy. 

Current PB system is beta shit, a single battle, what are we, virgins? get outa here with that shit. Give us real war scenarios not this MOBA crap.

Pretty much every suggestion you made sounds awful. There is a reason for the state of the current RVR mechanics. We tried all of what you suggested and it was a shit show.

[Slim McSauce]

8 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Pretty much every suggestion you made sounds awful. There is a reason for the state of the current RVR mechanics. We tried all of what you suggested and it was a shit show.

No you didn't, NA has has the same PB system since forever. It's always been one battle consisting of capture circles and some type of fortification with or without land. What actually are you talking about, you must be imagining things if you think what I just suggested has ever been in NA. No this isn't flags v2, I'm going to slap you silly if you spout anymore nonsense about "what's already been done". You clearly have no idea.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Raekur]

Got to love the 2 sided crap from some people. You know the ones that will say "if you don't want to be attacked outside your prime time put on a timer" ... shortly followed by the comment "People who use timers are cowards just trying to avoid a fight" 

So it seems that some players can't even make up their minds how they want to insult people. 

[Slim McSauce]

3 minutes ago, Raekur said:

Got to love the 2 sided crap from some people. You know the ones that will say "if you don't want to be attacked outside your prime time put on a timer" ... shortly followed by the comment "People who use timers are cowards just trying to avoid a fight" 

So it seems that some players can't even make up their minds how they want to insult people. 

That's precisely the point. Imagine if you wanted to create a proverbial structure of war using just words and concept like you were writing a book, and at the very foundation of that book you wrote that in war, the defender dictates when the attack takes place. That would already be daft and your book from there would have no legitimacy. That's exactly what RvR is right now. War, like actual war how you imagine and see it is not at all representative to what NA portrays as war which is RvR. The war we have is like if you took an Arena MMO battle instance and put an Open world around it, then made players grind AI at a certain time to get a single Arena instanced battle the next day. Just one battle for about an hour and that's your war in NA. No it does not satisfy anyone. It's just a cary over system from the early days of NA, that's why it needs rewriting.

[RedNeckMilkMan]

Just now, Slim McSauce said:

That's precisely the point. Imagine if you wanted to create a proverbial structure of war using just words and concept like you were writing a book, and at the very foundation of that book you wrote that in war, the defender dictates when the attack takes place. That would already be daft and your book from there would have no legitimacy. That's exactly what RvR is right now. War, like actual war how you imagine and see it is not at all representative to what NA portrays as war which is RvR. The war we have is like if you took an Arena MMO battle instance and put an Open world around it, then made players grind AI at a certain time to get a single Arena instanced battle the next day. Just one battle for about an hour and that's your war in NA. No it does not satisfy anyone. It's just a cary over system from the early days of NA, that's why it needs rewriting.

It's a video game. Not war. 

[Slim McSauce]

35 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

It's a video game. Not war. 

It's a video game trying to portray war. If it doesn't satisfy people's expectation of war then it's a fail.

I bet you couldn't find a single other game, whether it be MMO, single player, open world, or RTS that has the defender decide the time of attack for the attacker. 

Like you literally just said it yourself, a majority of players are frustrated with timers, even though statistically they work OK. That to me means the design of RvR is not satisfactory, quite the opposite.

It would mean (in my estimate) the way RvR is set up, how when and why it takes place is...phycologically irritating. NA's portrayal of war may be so far from reality and games similar that it might actually be damaging to those who try to participate.

Very much not something to be taken lightly (I don't say it lightly), but that's what happens when game design and the reality which that game is based around don't mesh. Like I said, everything that follows the axiom that in war "defenders decide the time of attack" is false, illegitimate, antagonistic to what we know to be true. Timers do not work for that very reason.

My suggestion may not be great but at least it follows real world sense. A port being decided in arbitrary times by arbitrary numbers does not. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Barbancourt]

31 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

 

I bet you couldn't find a single other game, whether it be MMO, single player, open world, or RTS that has the defender decide the time of attack for the attacker.

If you play something like Assault Squad 2 in multiplayer both sides have to actually log in and set things up to ever HAVE a battle.  The PB timers increase the chance there will actually be a battle, instead of 20 minutes sailing around in an empty instance admiring the view of town.  (only a chance mind you, since most of us have numerous meatspace commitments)  Nevertheless the singular port battle model leaves a lot to be desired because even WITH the timers few players will be available to participate...I'd like to see RvR as prolonged OW campaigns of some sort, but it would take some deep thinking

 

[van Veen]

In my opinion the RVR game has to be designed to allow also asymmetric conquest in which two sides contest one target at different times. 

Requiring both sides to be present simultaneously should be optional, not mandatory. 

There have been some interesting solutions proposed. 

Finding a working mechanism that doesn't need scheduling and allows asymmetric battles is not trivial, but is critical. Timers are just a workaround that causes so much grief and frustration that it needs to be fixed. 

[Barents]

38 minutes ago, van Veen said:

Finding a working mechanism that doesn't need scheduling and allows asymmetric battles is not trivial, but is critical. Timers are just a workaround that causes so much grief and frustration that it needs to be fixed. 

this.

If game gets released without a solution to the problem above OR comes without regional servers, i fear  it won´t last long.

[Barents]

16 hours ago, Wraith said:

Two servers is simply a recipe for dead RvR in a niche game that at best will probably settle in around 500-800 active players.

Two or even more regional servers is the only solution i have seen so far for the time zones problem and all the issues it brings along.

[Slim McSauce]

We actually lost Australia with the merge, server reset falling right on their prime time, with that went NA's best content creator as well.

 

[Alvar Fañez de Minaya]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Nah, you just don't have any appreciation for the fact that the world is round and players play in all time zones. It's ok, it's a pretty difficult concept to wrap your head around.

Maybe, it is so difficult to understand that the world is round for him...... as for you to understand that you and I can not play together, because when you sleep I play, and vice versa .... Create a game so that we play together if we can not do it is doomed to failure........... It is not so hard to understand either ..... 

As soon as the new players see that they can not conquer ports simply because they are sleeping, they abandon the game. It has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future when game release ...... Maybe your brain also has problems to understand obvious things ...

I have given this battle as lost in the forum those who rule and that is why we are in this situation (500 players in the best moments). But do not treat as stupid who does not think like you ....

Edited May 15, 2019 by Alvar Fañez de Minaya

[Jorge]

1 hour ago, Alvar Fañez de Minaya said:

Maybe, it is so difficult to understand that the world is round for him...... as for you to understand that you and I can not play together, because when you sleep I play, and vice versa .... Create a game so that we play together if we can not do it is doomed to failure........... It is not so hard to understand either ..... 

As soon as the new players see that they can not conquer ports simply because they are sleeping, they abandon the game. It has happened in the past, and it will happen again in the future when game release ...... Maybe your brain also has problems to understand obvious things ...

I have given this battle as lost in the forum those who rule and that is why we are in this situation (500 players in the best moments). But do not treat as stupid who does not think like you ....

+1

[Potemkin]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

 

Segregating people to their own servers, with a small fraction of the server population that creates healthy PvP and RvR is essentially a death sentence for the game.

Wo and VCO dont even have the balls to attack the US at a reasonable hour... you had a choice of when to set the pbs at marsh and the other one on the east coast and you set them at like 1am east coast US time and set both pbs within 20 mins of each other and on top of all of it you decided to do it on a monday night. Gtfo with your "entitled" eu player bs, you guys wont even give the depleted US a chance to even put up a defense. People are just sick of scumbag gameplay. But please tell us more about how you guys are morally our betters and that we should listen to your armchair game developer ideas. Go on, show the screens from those battles and tell us you're all for good fights. Then lets consider how many of your members gave the game a bad review on steam telling people essentially to not buy the game because of the butthurt from admin not using your genius solutions. #adminmanbad

Edited May 15, 2019 by Potemkin

[FKL 1982]

4 minutes ago, Potemkin said:

Wo and VCO dont even have the balls to attack the US at a reasonable hour... you had a choice of when to set the pbs at marsh and the other one on the east coast and you set them at like 1am east coast US time and set both pbs within 20 mins of each other and on top of all of it you decided to do it on a monday night. Gtfo with your "entitled" eu player bs, you guys wont even give the depleted US a chance to even put up a defense. People are just sick of scumbag gameplay. But please tell us more about how you guys are morally our betters and that we should listen to your armchair game developer ideas.

VCO and WO both have the two biggest/most active "night time" fleets and BOTH complain there is no one for them to attack at those hours. But instead of attacking each other and having some decent battles, they choose to work together to multi flip nations that they assume cannot fill the port battles. I mean they're already targeting what they see to be easy battles yet still feel the need to multi-flip.

I agree with what you say about giving the US chance to put up a defence but that is not what these guys want

[Potemkin]

1 minute ago, H982 FKL said:

VCO and WO both have the two biggest/most active "night time" fleets and BOTH complain there is no one for them to attack at those hours. But instead of attacking each other and having some decent battles, they choose to work together to multi flip nations that they assume cannot fill the port battles. I mean they're already targeting what they see to be easy battles yet still feel the need to multi-flip.

I agree with what you say about giving the US chance to put up a defence but that is not what these guys want

Haha i forgot to mention the carebear alliance. "B-b-but we neeeed content". These guys have been pulling this shit for years it wont change, its just too bad that most of the new US buyers have to step into that shitty situation and then we see wo and vco blame game mechanics for the lack of us timezone players.

[Barents]

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Nah, you just don't have any appreciation for the fact that the world is round and players play in all time zones. It's ok, it's a pretty difficult concept to wrap your head around.

Getting personal, why?

Is it because you fear your own north-american server without nightflips, hiding behind timers and contested portbattles?

[Angus MacDuff]

Weekend PBs only.  It's the only solution.

[Guest]

Flags with reworked forts (location, player controlled, hit boxes more spread so a fort is actually hard to kill)

[Aster]

Timers are good, they prevent the bad people on the other side of the round earth from hurting you when you sleep. But if we must remove the timers and set a standard server time clearly it should be set to the Caribbean time zone you know it being a Caribbean game and all. Anyone who plays outside my time zone basically does not exist right so I see no issue with this time zone being used.