Robert Danforth Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The problem with "Alpha, Bravo, &c." is that it doesn't really fir the feeling of the game. For one, it's the NATO alphabet, but even if we used other words, it would just feel odd in the age of sail. Class and/or name is really how ships would have been called out as targets in line battles. Or location in the line ("Coolingwood, cut them off 6 ships in. I'll cut the line 4 down from you."). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sin Khan Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 It is understandable why people do not want names listed above ships. However, real life ideas such as removing a players name and forcing players to use in game flags and other visual identification will only take away from game play in my view. Why? 1. On a real ship you have crew to remember things for you. In this game, you're it. There is no one to remind you that the target that you are attacking is a friendly. Having names above the ship is needed. 2. I have watched many game replays and many times someone has to zoom out and recheck the color and name of the person they are targeting to make sure that its the right guy. So, players already have to constantly re-check for identification before firing in large battles right now. So forcing people to spend more time than necessary doing this more is wrong as they already have to do this now. 3. In the real world you have more time to identify ships. This game is sped up. So, forcing players to spend more time than necessary just to identify a target should not be done unless we are all willing to also slow down the game play to allow for this real world situation. All in favor? I didn't think so. So, no, the game should not force players to use binocular identification for a game that is already sped up for quick combat engagements. 4. All the models are the same in this game. 3 constitutions all say "Constitution" right on the back of them. There is no other way to identify one, from the others. In the real world there are many differences in ship colors, flags, equipment, sails, rigging, etc. So, no, if all the ships are almost exactly the same then the player should not be forced to use visual identification of a target when virtually no visual difference is apparent from friend or foe targets. 5. Certain targets are always valued over others. Notorious pirate captains were hunted down. Keeping people from knowing the captain of a ship is not actually realistic. In the real world there was only one Constitution. You see a frigate with a white stripe down it and you knew immediately that it was either the Constitution or one of its sister ships, and, you knew who was in command of it if it was an infamous captain. In conclusion, because of the 5 reasons listed above i feel the naming scheme should be kept the same for now in this testing phase and should perhaps be kept as such for the future. World of Tanks, World of Warplanes has used this for years and its not a problem. Yes, a known player gets the shaft, but, real life also follows this. Famous people get paparazzi. Sucks, but its the price of being famous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 As long as the name labels can't be used for rangefinding, I don't care what happens to them. But they need to dance around the screen or something, so we don't use them as a gunnery aid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leviathan Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I remember when the reload rings where right in the middle of the screen. Now that was an aiming aid. You could hit a pimple on a gnat's butt at 500 yards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 What if labels sit between the fore and mainmast head while in gunnery view? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crankey Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I don't mind the names, it is a game after-all and nice to see who is against you, I don't mind them being shown elsewhere on screen but where would work ?, I don't need them to help with ranging as after a period of playing the game you get reasonably good at judging your first ranging shot, I am disappointed if I need a 3rd ranging shot, and I am sure anyone in anything larger than a surprise doesn't feel the same way. Do I get primaried more often, sometimes yes, especially if I have a clan friend on the opposite side. (They hate me - love shooting me and laugh about it in TS while I'm in channel the curs Remove the names completely and you will get better at ranging, however you aren't going to prevent someone using a stick-on aid on screen. column of dots dashes or otherwise. Some people feel they will need an edge, are you going to pop round theirs and pinch their sticker or rub off their little none-permanent marker pen dots OMG Who would do that ? Well I've seen those reticules for COD and similar on ebay - someone must be buying them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonsStyle Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Best choice in this, as you want o know who ur friends are.. and know who ur playing... so best option is to have a hot key that allows ppl to bring them up or get rid of them... that way every one is happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Best choice in this, as you want o know who ur friends are.. and know who ur playing... so best option is to have a hot key that allows ppl to bring them up or get rid of them... that way every one is happy. You miss the point - that people are using them for targeting. Your suggestion is like the gun control debate - the ones you actually want to control will just ignore it. It has to be across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I have often heard the names used as targeting... As in range finding? I find that this is not consistent... Ergo, targeting as in "a means of identifying an enemy target, preferably one of high caliber or known status (specific player) ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I take the position that it is perfectly fine to aim at "anything you want to aim at". ----- But ----- You need to select your "targets" for a reason - such as "Victory is the biggest threat to me" or "I'll shoot at which ever one I can bear on" ----- Now - there are "good" reasons to target a particular ship and "poor" reasons as well. I mean "good" and "Poor" in relation to the level of sportsmanship we SHOULD want in our game! ----- Good: High (potential) threat level Good: High (potential) damage Good: Out of place (easy target) Good: Gotta pick someone (opportunity) Good: Any criteria based on "what" they are - not "who" they are. ----- Poor: The S.O.B. sunk me three games in a row Poor: Ohhhh, he's on the leader board - I gotta sink him Poor: So THAT's the famous SideStrafe in a cutter - wonder if I can take him in my Bellona! Poor: Any criteria based on "Who" they are rather than "What" they are. The giant red banners with the players name on them over their head promotes poor targeting decisions and does little to help good targeting decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe we could have the ships entirely outlined by a colour? Red outline for enemy, green outline for friendly. It works in World of Tanks, so why not here? OK, now that everyone has vomited their breakfast/lunch/dinner, let's get real and come up with a better solution. In truth, I hate all icons regardless of the game, and pare down the GUI to absolute minimum if I can. That's just me, and I likely suffer in game performance for it, but there it is, I am no stats whore. I'm out, I do not care if I am at the bottom, I care more about the experience. As mentioned, the Naval Action in-game issue is that the same ship is likely on BOTH sides of the battle (like World of Tanks, hate to point that out). The only way to implement a visual identification system sans icons is to have skin/textures different for ships of different sides. Perhaps have Royal Navy ships black with the ivory bands at the gun ports, French and Spanish ships with whatever colours they had, and so on... It is not perfect, but a damn sight better than names hovering over ships in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I understand your position. Good or poor is subjective though. Personally, I believe it is a good choice to kill the opposing fleet commander. Cut the head off the snake. Some people might find that despicable. I don't have specific references at this moment, but the tactic had been used throughout history in all forms of warfare. Generally speaking, enemies have intel prior to battle that tells them "who, what, & where". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I don't have specific references at this moment, but the tactic had been used throughout history in all forms of warfare Sun Tzu. All the reference you need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Sure, but what is the lesser of two weevils here? Sorry, couldn't resist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Lol. I'll close with this. And leave the decisions to the devs, as I'm not convinced there is anything additional to add to this thread than more noise: Poor: The S.O.B. sunk me three games in a row Poor: Ohhhh, he's on the leader board - I gotta sink him Poor: So THAT's the famous SideStrafe in a cutter - wonder if I can take him in my Bellona! Poor: Any criteria based on "Who" they are rather than "What" they are. Allow for content creation that is beyond ship battling mechanics. The players names add an intangible element: These create content for the individual users. It creates competition. And I'm sorry if some folks are famous, but their sinking just might be the highlight of the day for half of the other team. Those famous folks need to evolve and adjust their game play to continue defining why they're the best out there. Open world mmo - content creation should be king, if not, then very near the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Lol. I'll close with this. And leave the decisions to the devs, as I'm not convinced there is anything additional to add to this thread than more noise: Poor: The S.O.B. sunk me three games in a row Poor: Ohhhh, he's on the leader board - I gotta sink him Poor: So THAT's the famous SideStrafe in a cutter - wonder if I can take him in my Bellona! Poor: Any criteria based on "Who" they are rather than "What" they are. Allow for content creation that is beyond ship battling mechanics. The players names add an intangible element: These create content for the individual users. It creates competition. And I'm sorry if some folks are famous, but their sinking just might be the highlight of the day for half of the other team. Those famous folks need to evolve and adjust their game play to continue defining why they're the best out there. Open world mmo - content creation should be king, if not, then very near the top. Well, Admin voted no - so I don't hold out much hope for a change, I hope they will me more useful in open world. I will bow to your thought - with the proviso -- that there may, just may, be a better way if only we can thunk it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've reached my qouta for likes today, otherwise the would be one on your post (seriously, there is a forum mechanic that limits likes...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Sun Tzu. All the reference you need Actually Sun Tzu would have recommended against attacking the snake directly and would have advocated sabotage and misdirection to induce the snake to eat it's OWN head .. er tail. Cyrus II of Persia would be the earliest RECORDED user of the "snake tactic" Just sayin ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Maybe off topic, but the irony is Comical. I've been reading some history of Nova Scotia, and there's a piece on the sea faring live. Therein is a qoute that JUST reminded me of our conversation RE: famous people: "... Nelson when into Aboukir with six colours flying; so that even if five were shot away, it should not be imagined he had struck. He too must needs wear his four stars outside this Admiral's frock, to be a butt for sharp-shooters. "In honour I gained them," he said to objectors, adding with sublime illogicality, "in honour I will die with them." That's the game environment I want, where it is my honor, and that in quite purposely a target. Sound vain, but Nelson had it right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Nelson did have it right - but not with a 25 foot tall RED banner - I think your name in the ships damage ID box (like it already is - see post #136) should be honorable enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The 25ft name thing is cute, I'll admit, but a complete exaggeration from a game play point of view. But it was a good recovery on your part The name on a 1980 x 1020 is sufficiently small enough that these only semi-old eyes often have to lean forward just to read. The names are conveniently placed to facilitate game play. Post #136 could work, but would be a poor substitute for a well laid out hud that facilitates efficient play. I'll concede that the person's name overtop the ship may not be the answer, but at least a number or nato call sign (insert whatever, as long as there is something). My last post on this topic I promise. I'll leave with a prediction. Firstly, I'm not convinced the devs will take the poll & implement the recommendation. To answer why, let's pretend IT IS implemented. What will happen upon release is that the masses will call for change on this item and it will be fixed to include an indicator over top of the ship. Why? Because it is perfectly reasonable to expect such a built in design that facilitates quality game play. PS-not even the admin can make me post again by asking a great question... Oh, and smoke covering the name is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 can someone explain how exactly names are used for targeting? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry d'Esterre Darby Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think this one is the most prevalent: The Name is used at long distance as a "guide" to how far above the ship you need to aim. In the real world, you'd choose a particular yard, or mast, or what have you on the ship to use to remember your aiming point. I might, for example, use the topsail yard on the mizzen mast as a "remember to aim here at the current range for the next broadside" marker. By having the name floating up there, you provide guidance on gun elevation that isn't there in the real world. Now, instead of aiming "somewhere above the ship, about this far", I can say "aim just underneath the "GameLabs" text. The name aids in sniping at long distance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 can someone explain how exactly names are used for targeting? Probably meaning that you can use the name as a reference point to correct aim and adjust and ''save/remember'' last hit location at longer ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I think this one is the most prevalent: The Name is used at long distance as a "guide" to how far above the ship you need to aim. In the real world, you'd choose a particular yard, or mast, or what have you on the ship to use to remember your aiming point. I might, for example, use the topsail yard on the mizzen mast as a "remember to aim here at the current range for the next broadside" marker. By having the name floating up there, you provide guidance on gun elevation that isn't there in the real world. Now, instead of aiming "somewhere above the ship, about this far", I can say "aim just underneath the "GameLabs" text. The name aids in sniping at long distance. hmmm but at long distance names are not shown.. or am i missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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