Rare Woods and Resources

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

@admin I must say that I wholeheartedly enjoy the way you have set up the random wood and resource delivery missions. It surely does give nations a chance to get access to such goods like Cartagena that was monopolized by few individuals before unless there was a random drop or chest. Also giving the port owners control of who has access to these goods is much appreciated. There are only two things I ask for you developers to consider implementing. The first being the pricing and initial amount available. Reducing their current amount and the cost might see the spread of the goods more swiftly than currently. Secondly, make the mission visible to everyone, even outside the nation. That way people have a stronger focus and player created campaign goals by knowing where certain goods are rather than having people use alts to find out. 

 

Edit (reasoning): should add that the reason behind the suggestion is for a few simple facts. First off players without alts are at a major disadvantage. The inability to locate these random wood spawns means they would have to spend their time doing RvR until they land on a port with a wood spawn. There is also a claim that these woods are far too rare which is not true. But these statements might be due to their lack of visibility to everyone. Not to mention reducing the cost and available amount should make it easier for smaller clans and casuals to purchase them from the missions and see the resource deplete and travel more frequently. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Velhelm Von Marrius

[van der Clam]

30 minutes ago, Routan said:

Have I gotten it wrong? If I sail a tader in to an enemy port, can I not see what rare items that drops there. It is an honnest question? I havent tryed.

You are right asumming all Nations can get rare Woods, but balanced I guess I say no. Strong Nations with lots of ports have a bigger chance to get acces to rare woods, unless the moveing is based on nations, and not ports. So basicly a system that favor the strong.

Yeah I know, just go take the port. Just can’t see the small and weak nations achive that. But it is a system I guess is right for the war server. Make it cheaper also is in favor for the strong. So yes your ideas is fitting the meta abouth give all to the strong.

It is my hope (probably in vain) to see such strong nations be willing to sell these rare resources, or ships made with them. But, I suspect it will become a hording thing. Our only option is to make national alliances to take over these ports and in good faith share those resources with allied nations. It might become a matter of the "suppressed"  nations to build rage boarding ships as a counter to the heavy built ships...and hope tactics in PBs will be in their favor.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

42 minutes ago, Routan said:

Have I gotten it wrong? If I sail a tader in to an enemy port, can I not see what rare items that drops there. It is an honnest question? I havent tryed.

I know when they first implemented you could but if I recall they patched it where you could not pretty quickly. Since then I have been told you can only see them if you are same nation as controller.

45 minutes ago, Routan said:

Yeah I know, just go take the port. Just can’t see the small and weak nations achive that. 

I have seen Espana and Prussia push around nations twice their size. It is possible. If you accept defeat before even trying then you will never win. Only nation if you want to call them that I do not see even getting close to getting a decent amount of rare woods is Poland. Everyone else there is opportunity. 

 

Not to mention you state the strong control the goods. What was the difference then from before? The strong always controlled the rare goods. Only reason US got what they needed was alts. At least in this system there is more opportunity for everyone.

[Barbancourt]

3 minutes ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

I know when they first implemented you could but if I recall they patched it where you could not pretty quickly. Since then I have been told you can only see them if you are same nation as controller.

Sounds like another use for....alts.

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

14 minutes ago, Barbancourt said:

Sounds like another use for....alts.

 

That is what I am stating. It is what we currently have. Cannot avoid alts unless alts are completely removed from game. You have to find a way where you can reduce their impact as much as possible. 

[van Veen]

Thank you for bringing it to attention that knowledge of the location for foreign pkayers is critical. Without this knowledge, there will be no RVR. 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

Just now, Koveras said:

No you can't, clan missions are only available for members of the owning clan or clans that are on their friends list, effectively cutting off SOME casual players from getting access to fine woods and rare ressources.

Corrected. I would not consider myself hardcore at all. I would fall into the casual group if anything and so would majority of the clan I am apart of. We have access to all the woods. I also know other casual players in other nation in the same situation I am in. They adapted and overcame the issues presented. 

[o Barão]

" It surely does give nations a chance to get access to such goods like Cartagena that was monopolized by few individuals before unless there was a random drop or chest. Also giving the port owners control of who has access to these goods is much appreciated."

Interesting that first you mentioned that is good because it's going to end with the monopoly just to add in the end that is good to give the monopoly to a few players playing in the big clans. Continue adding this handicap features to the solo players or players in small clans and the game is going to die. It is almost dead anyway.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

26 minutes ago, no one said:

Interesting that first you mentioned that is good because it's going to end with the monopoly just to add in the end that is good to give the monopoly to a few players playing in the big clans. Continue adding this handicap features to the solo players or players in small clans and the game is going to die. It is almost dead anyway.

So you liked the way before where once again it was an even more significant monopoly where in most cases a few people in the controlling nation had access to a steady source while others had to use alts to out bid, find them in chests, hope they can salvage off sunk ships, etc?

The solo player is not dead. Only people that live outside their means and refuse to adapt. Small clans are not struggling or dying out. Yes, things have become harder for them since the introduction of port ownership and management, but not dying or struggling to survive. I consider HRE obviously a large clan with over 100 players. Give or take alts. Yet I consider clans like CABAL and PURG3 to be small with not even 40 members, once again taking alts into consideration. Even clans like VCO and ORCA I would consider small, only based upon the frequency of the names appearing in combat news and who is chatting in global. Yet the four clans are functioning very well and are competitive. The reason why the clans I listed are able to function is they can work with one another and other parts of their respective nation. Heck, even the clan I help run is small by all accounts. Definitely not ranging to the member counts of any of the previously listed clans. Yet, we are not struggling simply for the fact that we are able to work with others within and without our nation. Only thing as of this moment we see ourselves struggling with coming soon is the increase of BR for port battles. Even that we are currently working to adapt and overcome. 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

9 minutes ago, Routan said:

Sweden? Really. They still live on there past, lets see what happens when map is wiped. But Sweden in still one of the stronger Nations.

They do not live in their past. They understand their situation and that is a huge reason why you see the number of ports they control reduced. But, yes Sweden I would say is one of the stronger nations. That is not our fault that we stay active. 

10 minutes ago, Routan said:

Before this system all players could get access to all. All it took was a bit gold, and yes maybe an alt. Now you will have to be in a Big nation and hope to be on a friend list. But it is a system that fit a war server, all to the strong. 

You definitely needed an alt which was the big issue. You do not have to be in a big nation. Even Poland has rare woods in their ports and Danmark has a source of Copper Ingots. Yet they are very small nations/nations with currently low activity. I am even looking down a list of ports and I can see a few that would be easy marks with low resistance and have low BR so these said small clans could have made a move for them. You have to be proactive to get things though in this game. Just being upset that you cant use an alt or purchase them at over inflated prices because of poor player economic skills does not mean they are less accessible. I was in the US at one point when we had a few Teak ports and I struggled to purchase them because of the inflated prices people were placing their bids for. 

23 minutes ago, Routan said:

In know wipe. Only because of wipe we no longer have any RvR.

I can think of a few conflicts that occurred post wipe that were on a more larger scale. They don't last long anymore though and that is not a problem. Actually nice when they don't since RvR becomes very dull being a repetitive task. But yes, the wipe as well does not help either. 

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

I honestly had a lot more written here but it is pointless to continue on the subject you seem to be fixated on. It is getting off topic. The main focus of this thread is not RvR or the struggles of small nations or clans. Even in the old system with very few ports holding value, and alts hold more power over players that play with one account only. That should not be the case. It was almost becoming a DLC. Small nations wills struggle period. Even when I was Poland there was a major lack of the rare woods in the old system. They were the smallest nation. Now however they have access to much more. The USA we had to have people with multiple alts to get the rare woods like White Oak and Live Oak, which should not have to be the case or norm. They were a nation with a population but not the access to get the woods.

By reducing the amount of what is available in the clan missions and reducing the cost slightly those missions would be depleted at a much faster rate having them randomly spawn elsewhere at a more frequent rate. Then with having the ability for people in all nations to visibly see where these resources are located without having to have an alt then these nations and clans can find a source of the woods more easily.

If a small clan or any clan to be exact refuses to work with the port owners then that is on them. This is not some single player game. This is a MMO where you have to work with others if you want to get anywhere. Even then, there are even more ways to get the rare goods you desire. 

Naval Action will not return back to the old system. Those days are over with a deadline set and the developers have made clear signs they are not making any major rollbacks to the changed mechanics. This game will continue to change for the better, especially after many of the suggestions @Anolytic have made recently. Do I like all of his suggestions? No, but I am not going to act like the game is ruined or going for everyone because of it because he does bring up points that although may affect some negatively, will overall push the game forward in a more positive manner rather. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Velhelm Von Marrius

[Archaos]

13 hours ago, Routan said:

Have I gotten it wrong? If I sail a tader in to an enemy port, can I not see what rare items that drops there. It is an honnest question? I havent tryed.

Yes you have it wrong. If you enter an enemy port on a trader you can see if a rare resource drops by opening the port information tab on the top left of your screen, it will show what resources the port produces normally and below that it will indicate the clan resource if any. I am surprised at how many regular players still do not know this fact. I will admit when it was first introduced I too struggled to find this information especially after they patched it so that the clan missions did not display for non-nation members, but it has been general knowledge now for quite some time and anyone really interested in discovering the rare resources spawns should have found it by now.

[Archaos]

11 hours ago, Koveras said:

No you can't, clan missions are only available for members of the owning clan or clans that are on their friends list, effectively cutting off all casual players from getting access to fine woods and rare ressources.

People constantly complain about this, but I personally do not see why a person who is active in their nation or part of a small clan who is active in their nation cannot just request for their clan to be temporarily added to the friend list or for the solo person to temporarily ask to join a clan to get access to the rare resource. Most big clans have a good idea who the enemy nation alts are and I do not see it as a bad thing restricting their access to rare resources. For genuine nation members I am sure one of the many clans on the friend list for that port would help if asked.

[o Barão]

9 hours ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

So you liked the way before where once again it was an even more significant monopoly where in most cases a few people in the controlling nation had access to a steady source while others had to use alts to out bid, find them in chests, hope they can salvage off sunk ships, etc? Wrong. I didn't like the way before and I also don't like the new way. If a game doesn't give fair chances to all players but only to a few the game is always condemned to fail, and die. Is dead already anyway.  

 

IMO to save the game and make interesting to all this should be implemented:

- Make big area around the capital ports without pvp . This would make new players safe to sail, fight pve and do some trading around the capital ports without problems. 

- Add 4 different ports. Capital ports ( no pvp ) neighbor capital ports where all players could do port battles against AI ( capturing or defending against AI fleets ), neutral ports where only clans could capture and resources ports. Resources ports could not be captured but is where the players would find the most valuable items to trade . This resources ports would be the new pvp main areas.

- To bring balance to the game economy. All DLC ships are blue and all ships produced would have 3 durability.

 -As a bonus to the pirates faction: pirates would be limited to sail in 4th rates, pirates capital ports would be around Nassau, pirates could attack other pirates outside the capital waters, pirates would have access to secret hideouts and pirates would have acess to a raiding port mechanic.

 

Now with this we are talking about a fun game balance to all. What you have now is nothing only a dead game.

 

[Serk]

All this talk about rare woods assume oak-oak ships can’t compete vs ships made of rare woods. 

Maybe this is what should be looked at. After all, oak was the primary shipbuilding woods for warship of the era. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Serk

[Papillon]

6 minutes ago, Serk said:

All this talk about rare woods assume oak-oak ships can’t compete vs ships made of rare woods. 

Maybe this is what should be looked at. After all, oak was the primary shipbuilding woods for warship of the era. 

 

 

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

35 minutes ago, Serk said:

All this talk about rare woods assume oak-oak ships can’t compete vs ships made of rare woods. 

Maybe this is what should be looked at. After all, oak was the primary shipbuilding woods for warship of the era. 

I agree people think too heavily on the wood meta. I have come across players with talent or the right combination of upgrades and have done very well against meta ships. It is the opportunity of getting the rare wood I am concerned with.

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

20 minutes ago, Routan said:

If you think wood is not so important, why then your op? If you think is has little value in making a ship competetive, why at all do you want to change it?

 

34 minutes ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

I agree people think too heavily on the wood meta. I have come across players with talent or the right combination of upgrades and have done very well against meta ships. It is the opportunity of getting the rare wood I am concerned with.

 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Velhelm Von Marrius

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

15 minutes ago, Koveras said:

There are some of us that remember a fully playerdriven economy where all forests could be farmed anywhere and back then there were more PBs, more PvP, more trading and more players. The solo player is dead, the numbers on the charts doesn't lie, what remains is the question: What is needed for this game to be something we can readily accept as fun, engaging and something we can recommend to others?

I'd like to discuss that, rather than reiterating on ideas already proven to be unfunctional.

Create a thread about it. It is off topic here. Frankly, tired of reading excuses from people who are stuck in the past and unwilling to change with the game. Small clans and solo players are not dead. Make whatever correlation with numbers and jump to conclusions all you want. I have friends that still solo and successfully so. I am even part of a small clan with usually less than 10 active members a day. We are doing quite well for ourselves. Points I would make but you can't teach a mutt a new trick when they only see doom. Game is not going back to what it was. That is a fact. Change with the game and solve problems. Don't cry about things getting hard. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Velhelm Von Marrius

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

19 minutes ago, Routan said:

You actually have answered you own op. 

In your opinion ppl care to much if meta wood. To remove that, they solution is not to make it cheaper for a few players. No make it 10 x more expensive. Then ppl know to see a meta build would be more rate than seing a flying pig. Problem solved, because then nobody will care abouth the meta wood, but all will sail in cheap wood ship.

I can get behind this. Rather than continue to feed into the meta, create a situation where because of their rarity and excessive yet reasonable  cost will be used less.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Velhelm Von Marrius

[Serk]

4 hours ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

I can get behind this. Rather than continue to feed into the meta, create a situation where because of their rarity and excessive yet reasonable  cost will be used less.

The problem I see, is how DLC ships allow to completly ignore this rarity. 20 or so Teak-Wo or LO-WO Rattsivan (or worst, 3rd rates) in a PB vs oak oak aggies that still cost 2,7k dubs? 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Serk

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

56 minutes ago, Serk said:

The problem I see, is how DLC ships allow to completly ignore this rarity. 20 or so Teak-Wo or LO-WO Rattsivan (or worst, 3rd rates) in a PB vs oak oak aggies that still cost 2,7k dubs? 

Yes, but that would be the same in any direction you go. The Rattsivan is an okay 4th rate. I like it but when it comes to port battles I will still take an Aggie or something larger over it. 

[Dibbler (Retired)]

2 hours ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

Yes, but that would be the same in any direction you go. The Rattsivan is an okay 4th rate. I like it but when it comes to port battles I will still take an Aggie or something larger over it. 

 

 Even if your choice is oak/oak or dlc wood of choice?

 Not against dlc, but depending on wood availability the decision could be quite easy  (Depending on Port battle BR total of course).

 

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Dibbler

[--Privateer--]

11 hours ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

I have friends that still solo and successfully so. I am even part of a small clan with usually less than 10 active members a day. We are doing quite well for ourselves.

Lets see how you're doing after the wipe when we no longer have ships left over from better times. And even if your small group is able to put in the hours per day necessary to claim the rare woods, many people can't. This is very obvious from the empty or nearly empty ports, it's even rare to find anything above a oak/fir 5th rate in la Tortue these days, how is that not a problem?

The old system worked for hard core and casual players; the hard core players would put in the hours and craft multiple ships hoping for a purple or gold, and the blue standard ships went to the new or casual players. Now the hard core players have blue ships (which they are less happy with) and the casual players don't have ships or are forced to buy the DLC.

[Mr.Crowley]

You have made it too hard to get the rare woods. I been working on getting some built up and still do not have the wood to build a good ship. You wanted to make it easier to craft then take awy the resources to craft. What kinda logic is that? I must agree with anyone that wants a different system for getting the rare wood. I do not like this systemat all. Please change the rare woods system to something a little more realistic. Yet findable for any player, Not just players in large clans.(because most of them can't get the rare woods aswell)

Please change the rare woods. or the amount of woods needed to build ships. 

Thank you for your time to read and post if you do not like the rare woods system now.

Mr.Crowley