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Anolytic

RNG-permits & pay-to-participate RvR

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4 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Despite multiple topics about it in this forum, not enough of us realises just how bad the current crafting and currency situation is in the game. Because ships have not been wiped, and because most clans are now indifferent to RvR, the enormous hurdles now placed on crafting almost any ships is hidden.

Another good article and all true.  I highlight the above, because it's really something that @admin should consider.  Maybe he has already made the decision, but we really need a FULL wipe (or at the very least, ships and xp) soonest in order to test all of these changes without the artificial bonus of having all of our stored ships.  What we are testing now is false and cannot be considered when compiling statistics.

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The problem will be magnified when the game is  wiped and released .... it is hard to craft ships now when we have access to reals and doubloons rng drops from misions that comes from pve grind with larger ships ..... after the final wipe we wont have reals or doubloons we will have to grind these in 6 and 7 th rates .with the new damage model ... it will be a massive grind just to be able to afford a shipyard .. never mind having to sail around and collect all ship building materials  permits and combat medals

meanwhile the dlc rattvisan owner once having completed the tutorial will find it much easier  and quicker to grind ... they will win all port battles

putting it simply if you dont buy the 4th rate dlc on release your going to get left so far behind it will take months to recover ... i predict some will find themselves so uncompetitive they will leave the game

 

Edited by shunt
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21 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Another good article and all true.  I highlight the above, because it's really something that @admin should consider.  Maybe he has already made the decision, but we really need a FULL wipe (or at the very least, ships and xp) soonest in order to test all of these changes without the artificial bonus of having all of our stored ships.  What we are testing now is false and cannot be considered when compiling statistics.

This is true, but oh shit I'm not looking forward to that. I fear player numbers will drop immediately and most ships in OW will be DLC.

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I don't understand which function the permit gating serves (I can half understand - though not agree with - the special wood shortage).

The game would be ready for release without it.

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1 minute ago, Tiedemann said:

This is true, but oh shit I'm not looking forward to that. I fear player numbers will drop immediately and most ships in OW will be DLC.

Player numbers would drop because many will just decide to wait it out until release.  But this is something that really should be tested.  I agree with you that the OW would be full of DLC and that is the point.  @admin can't observe the actual statistics on crafting vs DLC while we are living in this wonderland of stored ships and RNG driven crafting.

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all good points
will be done. Only rare ships (that we want to be rare like Christian, Endymion or Niagara or Santisima) should stay with permits. The permits as sinks are detrimental and counterproductive. There must be good counters freely available like Agamemnon vs Rattvisan
 

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Just now, admin said:

all good points
will be done. Only rare ships (that we want to be rare like Christian, Endymion or Niagara or Santisima) should stay with permits. There must be good counters available.
 

Rare is okay sometimes.  Finding the sweet spot between common and too rare is the problem.  A tough job!

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

all good points
will be done. Only rare ships (that we want to be rare like Christian, Endymion or Niagara or Santisima) should stay with permits. The permits as sinks are detrimental and counterproductive. There must be good counters freely available like Agamemnon vs Rattvisan
 

if you just left those 4 ships as permit only i think it would be a good balance

all you need to do now is reduce the amount of doubloons to purchace rare woods in clan missions .. so that the wanderingt forests actually start to wander and we will be getting somewhere

😊

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1 minute ago, admin said:

all good points
will be done. Only rare ships (that we want to be rare like Christian, Endymion or Niagara or Santisima) should stay with permits. There must be good counters available.
 

You really give us big pain :), and then some painkillers.

1st rates are used in PB, but please no rng permits for them. Make them even more costly but please no rng. 

6th and 5th rates make them easy craft, we wanna craft them, pvp and sink them. 

Please reduce difference between woods, give oak some love or make sabicu/cag/mah common woods again. 

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

all good points
will be done. Only rare ships (that we want to be rare like Christian, Endymion or Niagara or Santisima) should stay with permits. The permits as sinks are detrimental and counterproductive. There must be good counters freely available like Agamemnon vs Rattvisan
 

Not sure about the niagra.  Why would you consider this rare?  Assuming DLC ships will be entering PBs, the cerb/surprise/herc/pandora can all mount 32lb carros.  

If anything the niagra is in danger of not having a place (as is most shallow ships) in the game.  Now if you'd make shallows great again by removing 5th rates from them I'd love you long time.

#NoDLCsInPBsEver

 

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While I and my clan aren't as active as REDS i second with @Anolytic.

We liked the shallows and play a lot.

But there is no alternative to the requin for port battles in the shallows without paying a heavy permit price.

The surprise costing 15 medals is insanity for shallow waters and the alternatives are cerb (lol) or dlc ships.

I've been consistant in saying that we need a ship wipe to see the permit wall troubles. 

I am absolutely fine with lineships costing permits - but they should cost victory marks (and 3rd rate being a doubloon permit).

6th rates should not be behind permits - or at the very least only 1-3 of them should be.

Shallow water 5th rates - there are 2 dlc shallow 5ths against 3 craftable ones. Of which 2 are behind a permit - with 1 being rng...

 

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1 minute ago, Socialism said:

If anything the niagra is in danger of not having a place (as is most shallow ships) in the game.  Now if you'd make shallows great again by removing 5th rates from them I'd love you long time.

Niagara would be the Queen of the 6th rates if that damned Req was made a 5th.  Solo PVP zone for 6th rates would be more fun.

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I mostly concur with the OP.
However, I see one recurring theme with the permit discussions lately: The fact that craftable non-permit ships are generally not accepted as an alternative at all.


Take the Herc vs Surprise example from @Anolytic's post:
The natural non-permit alternative I see is the Cerberus. Directly comparing the base stats of each ship shows that while generally lacking in firepower, the Cerberus is remarkably similar to the Hercules in most aspects. Yet it seems to be out of the question for a lot of people. I often set up preliminary ship lists for GBs portbattles and am guilty of forgetting those ships myself. Old habits, I guess...


So while permit-based ships tend to be the best possible choice for RvR-Setups, better in general than their DLC-Counterparts (except our dear Le Requiem :P ), they will not be completely neccessary in the long run because permit-locked ships will become so much rarer once a complete asset wipe happens. And if after some time those rare ships become more abuundant to people in powerful clans I'd say that is an earned advantage and the nature of MMO's with a competitive aspect.

The more important problem in my opinion is that of basic crafting resources
and the amount of gametime that uses up (hopefully balanced by the next patch) and most importantly the fine woods problem, which Anolytic very nicely sums up in is other post:

 

Generally speaking though, I think all permits should be accessible in a non-RNG related way, but that is just personal preference...

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12 minutes ago, admin said:

all good points
will be done. Only rare ships (that we want to be rare like Christian, Endymion or Niagara or Santisima) should stay with permits. The permits as sinks are detrimental and counterproductive. There must be good counters freely available like Agamemnon vs Rattvisan
 

Thank god, looking forward to it

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When 50 people here on forum adress the same thing nobody reacts..Wenn Anolytic does, voila, changes applied.

Thank you for trusting us. "The others."

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1 minute ago, Hawkwood said:

When 50 people here on forum adress the same thing nobody reacts..Wenn Anolytic does, voila, changes applied.

Thank you for trusting us. "The others."

Can you link your topic to that matter? Anolytic has like 10 topics about that....

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5 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Then we better be glad, that Anolytic makes a damn good job of adressing those issues in well constructed posts :P

A well constructed and respectful argument gets listened to??  That can't be right....

Edited by Angus MacDuff
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3 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Then we better be glad, that Anolytic makes a damn good job of adressing those issues in well constructed posts :P

Shows only how much your or mine posts are considered in this matter.

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3 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

Shows only how much your or mine posts are considered in this matter.

it takes many drops of rum to fill the barrel

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4 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

Shows only how much your or mine posts are considered in this matter.

I agree that it took quite some poking of our dear @admin (even with PMs) to get a reply to some of my Ideas. But let's try and keep this discussion On-Topic, shall we?

Edited by Tom Farseer
spelling (or rather my inability of it)

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1 minute ago, admin said:

it takes many drops of rum to fill the barrel

its hard to tell which barrel is full and which is empty until you look inside

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12 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

When 50 people here on forum adress the same thing nobody reacts..Wenn Anolytic does, voila, changes applied.

Thank you for trusting us. "The others."

Anolytic is very good in bringing it to the Point in a Construcive Matter

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