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Anolytic

On Rare Woods Harvesting and Map Distribution

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the wandering forest isnt a bad idea jusr poorly executed ... the price in doubloons is far too much ... there is 1million teak 1m live oak  1m white oak logs in the game ... but its all sat behind a ridiculous  50k doubloon for 5000  and clan mission barrier

drop the price in doubloons to  5k doubloons for 5k logs ... people wil start using the clan missions .. will start trading the rare woods ... start hauling to ports to sell ... it will create content for those that want to trade ... the wandering forest effect will spread the wealth around the map ... it will re energise ship building ... im tot going to spend 50 cm   on a l ocean permit if the l ocean is going to be oak/oak

weve tested the current set up and its not working so if we are testing change it and test again

 

 

 

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What @huliotkd wrote makes sense, and gives everybody a chance to collect some rare stuff.

Like he suggested, if clans can still get a garanteed amount in the 'special' ports, it will still be a usefull advantage/convenience for RVR?

Two days ago, i capped two ai tbrigs, one had 100 live oak and the other had 110 white oak. I know, that is not much if you are crafting in bulk or crafting for extra trims or golden ships, but it makes the 'solo'-players and new and more casual people have a chance (i really think ai-ships carrying rare items in ow is a must (like it still seems to be to this day), i wouldn't be capping traders for just a chance to get some worthless (to me) tradinggoods). So, having delivered some rare items to random ports (i (and others) have suggested this before already, i'm not sure whether the ai-ships carrying rare items in ow actually deliver them to a port atm?) also makes people visit random ports and thus more traffic in ow.

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Why not giving a daily opportunity to each individual player? Like a message/mission in which a particular port will have a certain amount of one or two wood types just for you.

The player can decide wether to go there and buy it or not. There´ll be no concentration on particular ports and no orchestrated ganking because of randomness.

The map will be used as well :). Best wishes, Gene

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12 minutes ago, Genevieve Malfleurs said:

Why not giving a daily opportunity to each individual player? Like a message/mission in which a particular port will have a certain amount of one or two wood types just for you.

The player can decide wether to go there and buy it or not. There´ll be no concentration on particular ports and no orchestrated ganking because of randomness.

The map will be used as well :). Best wishes, Gene

nope.

you can abuse with ALT account receiving message also for ALT so you can buy too much rare wood and no other one will discover you.

making wood delivery RANDOM will move player to every port to find something valuable using more trader ship than now

 

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21 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

nope.

you can abuse with ALT account receiving message also for ALT so you can buy too much rare wood and no other one will discover you.

making wood delivery RANDOM will move player to every port to find something valuable using more trader ship than now

 

I fear there will always be an alt abuse whatever you chose to do. But I also fear running for ages in empty ports. With a working economy your proposal might be good.

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@Anolytic Good analysis of the problem and good suggestions and discussions generally.

Unfortunately  @Hawkwood is correct:  The current rare woods mechanic and the permit wall are engineered so as to encourage/force more DLC purchase.

Any suggestions and discussions that don't take this into account are not realistic.

 

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18 hours ago, Anolytic said:

There is a third solution: That rare woods forests are simply yet another expansion that can be applied to upgrade cities for a price. Say for instance that you can choose only one forest for each city, either Teak, white oak, live oak, mahogany, caguairan or sabicu. So to get all woods you have to upgrade six cities.

+1

Enable all wood types as city expansions - Scale the cost to be more expensive for the better wood types. Better wood types to be prohibitively more expensive

Positive: As member of a tiny clan I have a mechanism by which i can unlock access to rare wood types that is not dependent on finding a random spawn forest/be friends with a clan that has access to rare wood forests. I'm no longer looking at a scary 50k doubloon for wood grind transaction either

Negative: Having access to all wood types at home will not encourage ow sailing. Clans more likely to turtle up around their base of operations

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Why not adress the elefant in the room? - Why not balance mods and woods so as not to be a guarantee for success in neither PBs or PvP matches?

I can hardly remember when the game were balanced (if it ever were) to the point where skill actually had a deciding difference between two players where neither was a complete noob. In PBs it's exacerbated even more to the point where the winning side is the one with the right woods at all times - i.e. can't get the fine woods? - why bother = no fights.

The game has been bleeding players for the past two years and it's come to the point where days with no PBs at all (contested) isn't a fluke anymore. A year ago I would've been puzzled how there could be any days, full 24 hour cycles, with no PBs against a contested port. Now it seems to happen once every week or biweekly. The game needs to be fun, and it's not fun to be someone elses designated lamb.

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17 minutes ago, Koveras said:

Why not adress the elefant in the room? - Why not balance mods and woods so as not to be a guarantee for success in neither PBs or PvP matches?

I can hardly remember when the game were balanced (if it ever were) to the point where skill actually had a deciding difference between two players where neither was a complete noob. In PBs it's exacerbated even more to the point where the winning side is the one with the right woods at all times - i.e. can't get the fine woods? - why bother = no fights.

The game has been bleeding players for the past two years and it's come to the point where days with no PBs at all (contested) isn't a fluke anymore. A year ago I would've been puzzled how there could be any days, full 24 hour cycles, with no PBs against a contested port. Now it seems to happen once every week or biweekly. The game needs to be fun, and it's not fun to be someone elses designated lamb.

because the kind of balance you are talking about makes it all obselete .... whats the point of building a LO/WO ship when its the same as an oak/oak  ship ?

why not just have oak and get rid of the rest of the woods ?

but that again unbalances the game .. because  if everyone sailed oak/oak ships ...the winners would be those in the biggest ships ...and the largest broadside

having different wood type ships adds a big dimensio to the game .. do you have a fast ship ... a tanky ship ... something inbetween .. all this would dissapear

skill will always have a deciding diference ,,,  a skilled player in a teak/wo ship always beat an unskilled player in a lo/wo similar ship ....but where the skill level is comparable the opposite is true

 

 

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IMO the current system has to change for something easier - period. I have absolutely no understanding why crafting ships in good woods has to be so difficult. Where is the logic!? We all need easy access to ships so we bring them out into OW and lose them. Some of us might not have realized how much grinding and RNG is involved in crafting yet, because we have abundance of ships still. If devs had wiped all our ships when they released the changes to crafting the forum would be on fire!

When I got into this game in 2016 I was danish, crafting was easy and fun! Resources was just a sail away and in abundance. I as a solo casual player could craft what ever I needed, and I did not have use all my outpost for crafting because I could sail around and buy most of the stuff I needed. As I ranked up I crafted my own ships for the rank I was on. SO I was leveling crafting and crew rank parallel. It was glorious and i fell in love with this game. Somewhere along the way someone had the bright idea to make crafting more difficult, because there where to much big ships everywhere.. 

I get that line ships should be special and require effort to craft, but we should have stopped making it so difficult to craft in general that it alienates new and casual players. We are at a point where only organized groups of players that can share the burden involved in crafting, are able to craft competitive ships for high end PvP/RvR. This is not sustainable and it alienates new players and groups from joining PvP and RvR.

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I don't agree with all these complainings. It's everytime the same. Everything should be better, but nothing may change!

At the moment the main reason why the "Rare Woods" are difficult to obtain results from the small wipe a few weeks ago. This wipe was a hard hit mainly for traders.  

They lost nearly all their money, nearly all resources and nearly all their clients. All shipyards were filled in preparation of the wipe.

This is a economic disaster!

But with more activities in PVP, RVR and big fleets this will change. The winner of each battle is always the supplier of ships and weapons!

Try to remember the prices of "Rare Woods" before the patch and compare the prices with nowadays.

What has changed?

You have now a minimum  order quantity that is very high for a single player. But it is not to high for clans and it's not to high for single players, if they work temporary together. I did this together with another player, we bought White Oak and Teak. It works and it works fine!

Some guys here are also complaining about the DLC-ships.

Realy?

  • the Redsailed-bathtub is nerved an nearly useless
  • the Herc lost it's Metapower and is now a light frigatte and only as strong as the surprise 12 months ago
  • the new "4th-Rat" is a ship to sail and sink, nothing special
  • the l'Hermione is a nice ship - not more. It's able to do anything, but nothing in a real proper way

Don't be silly. These DLC's aren't a problem - a guy that hasn't at least five of the classical ships (Trino, Endy, Bellona, Victory, l'Ocean, Santi, ...) is called a Noob. These DLC's are good for players with plenty of time, they are good to use and sink. They are good to kill them and get dubloons from  their loot.

This is the thruth,

Right now the forum seems to be a vanity fair of guys who are pissed that now a working together is more important. 

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Just now, Tiedemann said:

IMO the current system has to change for something easier - period. I have absolutely no understanding why crafting ships in good woods has to be so difficult. Where is the logic!? We all need easy access to ships so we bring them out into OW and lose them. Some of us might not have realized how much grinding and RNG is involved in crafting yet, because we have abundance of ships still. If devs had wiped all our ships when they released the changes to crafting the forum would be on fire!

When I got into this game in 2016 I was danish, crafting was easy and fun! Resources was just a sail away and in abundance. I as a solo casual player could craft what ever I needed, and I did not have use all my outpost for crafting because I could sail around and buy most of the stuff I needed. As I ranked up I crafted my own ships for the rank I was on. SO I was leveling crafting and crew rank parallel. It was glorious and i fell in love with this game. Somewhere along the way someone had the bright idea to make crafting more difficult, because there where to much big ships everywhere.. 

I get that line ships should be special and require effort to craft, but we should have stopped making it so difficult to craft in general that it alienates new and casual players. We are at a point where only organized groups of players that can share the burden involved in crafting, are able to craft competitive ships for high end PvP/RvR. This is not sustainable and it alienates new players and groups from joining PvP and RvR.

the more difficult crafting and getting rare woods is the more appealing spending £30 on DLC that gives you a teak/wo or  lo/wo  4th rate that is really a 3rd rate   becomes

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2 minutes ago, HamBlower said:

Some guys here are also complaining about the DLC-ships.

Realy?

  • the Redsailed-bathtub is nerved an nearly useless
  • the Herc lost it's Metapower and is now a light frigatte and only as strong as the surprise 12 months ago
  • the new "4th-Rat" is a ship to sail and sink, nothing special
  • the l'Hermione is a nice ship - not more. It's able to do anything, but nothing in a real proper way

Don't be silly. These DLC's aren't a problem - a guy that hasn't at least five of the classical ships (Trino, Endy, Bellona, Victory, l'Ocean, Santi, ...) is called a Noob. These DLC's are good for players with plenty of time, they are good to use and sink. They are good to kill them and get dubloons from  their loot.

This is the thruth,

Right now the forum seems to be a vanity fair of guys who are pissed that now a working together is more important. 

currently in the game yes

after final wipe and release ... they will be kings of the sea 

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29 minutes ago, HamBlower said:

Some guys here are also complaining about the DLC-ships.

Realy?

  • the Redsailed-bathtub is nerved an nearly useless
  • the Herc lost it's Metapower and is now a light frigatte and only as strong as the surprise 12 months ago
  • the new "4th-Rat" is a ship to sail and sink, nothing special
  • the l'Hermione is a nice ship - not more. It's able to do anything, but nothing in a real proper way

Don't be silly. These DLC's aren't a problem - a guy that hasn't at least five of the classical ships (Trino, Endy, Bellona, Victory, l'Ocean, Santi, ...) is called a Noob. These DLC's are good for players with plenty of time, they are good to use and sink. They are good to kill them and get dubloons from  their loot.

This is the thruth,

Right now the forum seems to be a vanity fair of guys who are pissed that now a working together is more important. 

You are absolutely correct in that all currently available DLC ships are generally balanced against free counterparts, with regards to their stats and effectiveness in battle.
But you completely ignore the economical implications.

To specify: the availabilty of rare woods and the redeem cooldown in comparision with the crafting effort of comparable ships!

  • 24 hour cooldown and free wood choice for DLC ships up to Herc (and possibly Pandora) not a problem.
  • For the Hermione the cooldown is not problematic either, just the rare wood availabilty makes crafting a comparable counterpart more labourious, as they need more woods than the smaller ships.
  • For the Rättvisan both are problematic. The cooldown of 24 hours is too short in my opinion. Crafting a decent 4th rate takes time. But alas that cannot really be changed after the DLCs release. The fine woods problematic is now beyond good and evil though. And while I personally could take on a T/W Rättvisan in a cheap Oak/Oak Aggy, assuming my opponent is an average player, that should not be the norm. On equal skill the Oak ship suffers too much from the Thickness and Turn Rate difference. Which in conclusion gives the larger DLC ships a distinct advantage in long time gameplay.

As was stated in another thread:
Rättvisan is a great tool for casual players that don't have as much time to play. It is an extreme economic warfare advantage in the hands of a decent RvR clan.

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Clans should also get back Doubloons from others that buy it from there port.  This way they can pay for it with part of that and or sale it on the market. Even if they gain 10% of what friendly clans spend on the missions it's better than nothing.

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53 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

You are absolutely correct in that all currently available DLC ships are generally balanced against free counterparts, with regards to their stats and effectiveness in battle.
But you completely ignore the economical implications.

To specify: the availabilty of rare woods and the redeem cooldown in comparision with the crafting effort of comparable ships!

  • 24 hour cooldown and free wood choice for DLC ships up to Herc (and possibly Pandora) not a problem.
  • For the Hermione the cooldown is not problematic either, just the rare wood availabilty makes crafting a comparable counterpart more labourious, as they need more woods than the smaller ships.
  • For the Rättvisan both are problematic. The cooldown of 24 hours is too short in my opinion. Crafting a decent 4th rate takes time. But alas that cannot really be changed after the DLCs release. The fine woods problematic is now beyond good and evil though. And while I personally could take on a T/W Rättvisan in a cheap Oak/Oak Aggy, assuming my opponent is an average player, that should not be the norm. On equal skill the Oak ship suffers too much from the Thickness and Turn Rate difference. Which in conclusion gives the larger DLC ships a distinct advantage in long time gameplay.

As was stated in another thread:
Rättvisan is a great tool for casual players that don't have as much time to play. It is an extreme economic warfare advantage in the hands of a decent RvR clan.

DLC should only be blue 3/5 ships with a chance at perks.  Crafted ships should be the only ones with chance to have extra perks and slots.   This would be one way to make them more equal specially when you start looking at time to craft and make a 4th rate over the DLC.  Hell even the 5th rates seem to now be hard to craft compared just popping out a DLC.  I'll be honestly if I get back activily in the game I"ll prob after relase only run DLC ships for a good while as I stock up for better ships but there really isn't a point to craft anything other than SOL's if you have DLC's.

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1 hour ago, shunt said:

because the kind of balance you are talking about makes it all obselete .... whats the point of building a LO/WO ship when its the same as an oak/oak  ship ?

why not just have oak and get rid of the rest of the woods ?

but that again unbalances the game .. because  if everyone sailed oak/oak ships ...the winners would be those in the biggest ships ...and the largest broadside

having different wood type ships adds a big dimensio to the game .. do you have a fast ship ... a tanky ship ... something inbetween .. all this would dissapear

skill will always have a deciding diference ,,,  a skilled player in a teak/wo ship always beat an unskilled player in a lo/wo similar ship ....but where the skill level is comparable the opposite is true

 

 

There's nothing wrong with tweaking a ship for a specific role, but there shouldn't be "one size beats all" - it should depend on tactics and the ability to curtail the opponents tactics. Let's be honest - who here can't see that teak/wo or teak/teak is the only meta in PvP, and LO/WO or Teak/WO is the meta in RvR and anything else will basically be a waste of time.. Atm it's already the biggest ship that gets the win, I sincerely doubt any1 will willingly go into a PB with 4th rates against 2nd and 1st rates - regardless of woods.

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16 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

DLC should only be blue 3/5 ships with a chance at perks.  Crafted ships should be the only ones with chance to have extra perks and slots.   This would be one way to make them more equal specially when you start looking at time to craft and make a 4th rate over the DLC.  Hell even the 5th rates seem to now be hard to craft compared just popping out a DLC.  I'll be honestly if I get back activily in the game I"ll prob after relase only run DLC ships for a good while as I stock up for better ships but there really isn't a point to craft anything other than SOL's if you have DLC's.

I wouldn't go that far.  I'm a 5th rate fan and would be very happy to craft powerful 5th rates.....if I can get the right woods.  Still will have to rank up in crafting, so a lot of oak ships going on the market. But yes, DLC till I get there.

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36 minutes ago, shunt said:

currently in the game yes

after final wipe and release ... they will be kings of the sea 

This is what I ment: Forum is vanity of fair and  is full of guys who are pissed and destructive. 

You assume, you poison the mood with such sentences.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, El Patron said:

@admin

50k is too much. lower the price and its working

 

The easiest thing to do.

Also 5000 logs means that I will force to have an outpost in that port, so we could have 3 types of clan missions with different quantities of supplied logs.

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8 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I wouldn't go that far.  I'm a 5th rate fan and would be very happy to craft powerful 5th rates.....if I can get the right woods.  Still will have to rank up in crafting, so a lot of oak ships going on the market. But yes, DLC till I get there.

But DLC don't have to get the woods, they get instant woods so that is why they should be limited to only blue 3/5 ships with perks.

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1 hour ago, Tom Farseer said:

 

  • For the Rättvisan both are problematic. The cooldown of 24 hours is too short in my opinion. Crafting a decent 4th rate takes time. But alas that cannot really be changed after the DLCs release. The fine woods problematic is now beyond good and evil though. And while I personally could take on a T/W Rättvisan in a cheap Oak/Oak Aggy, assuming my opponent is an average player, that should not be the norm. On equal skill the Oak ship suffers too much from the Thickness and Turn Rate difference. Which in conclusion gives the larger DLC ships a distinct advantage in long time gameplay.

 

You know Sir Loorkon?

He or his Alt (Lord Loorkon) is nearly every day part of combat news. 

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 11:10 AM, Sir Loorkon said:

Just fought against one with my testing oak/oak Aggamemnon (I was just heading to capital to put 42er carros on the Agga lol). Rättvisan feels not to strong and I enjoyed the fight. Good balancing! 

But in total - I think the politics with "every-day-till-eternity-sporning-ships" is an economic fail. But I'm not responsible for the econimics of GameLabs, so why worry.

For me it's not only the battles why I play Naval Action such a long time. I have fun in fitting ships, in searching new sailing ways. I like the thrill to sail alone with a full loaded trader-ship from A to B. I like PVP, RVR and sometimes PVE. If I get killed (and this happens quite often), I know that this is a game.

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33 minutes ago, Koveras said:

There's nothing wrong with tweaking a ship for a specific role, but there shouldn't be "one size beats all" - it should depend on tactics and the ability to curtail the opponents tactics. Let's be honest - who here can't see that teak/wo or teak/teak is the only meta in PvP, and LO/WO or Teak/WO is the meta in RvR and anything else will basically be a waste of time.. Atm it's already the biggest ship that gets the win, I sincerely doubt any1 will willingly go into a PB with 4th rates against 2nd and 1st rates - regardless of woods.

i dont think you know what you want ...."There's nothing wrong with tweaking a ship for a specific role, but there shouldn't be "one size beats all"   but you then give examples of tweaking ships for specific roles and call  them metas

theres always going to be a meta  build  for a particular role unless you cut out having different builds altogether and just have one type of wood

there isnt a one build beats all ...

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