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Durin

Please make the Constitution a 4th Rate again and/or lower its BR

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Ahoy,

I assume other players allready complained about this, but today was the first time i ran into problems regarding the Constitutions too high BR, so heres the deal:

It is allready hard enough to fight 4th rates with this ship, as they all have an big advantage regarding firepower and turnrate. The worst thing about it is, that if you attack a ship like that, wich can outturn and outDPS you easily, the battle wont close since the Constitution has more BR.

connie.thumb.png.8a301fb18b8c8d1282f631d313d6d5d4.png

Since that battle didnt close, i had to run away. Its hard enough allready to fight an Agga 1v1 with this ship, i did not want to have to fight a 2nd rate at the same time. It seems like 5th rates and traders are the only ships i can fight, since i can sink those befor reenforcements arrive.

Please change something to make this beautiful ship compatible with 4thRates again.

o7

edit:

Apart from the problems mentioned above, it also has no place in the patrol zones, since it cant enter battles in the 4th rate zone, and in the solo zone it has to fight against Bellonas and other proper 3rd rates.

Edited by Durin
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Constitution should never have been made a 3rd rate, its stupidity and you can see that just by looking at its paper stats. The average/below average players struggles vs 4th rates in a constitution and they decided to make it a 3rd rate.

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I heared that they made it a 3rd rate because of its high HP, and it makes sense if you only look at HP. But ofcourse it doesnt stand a chance vs other 3rd rates, even if it had 3 times the hp it has now ;)

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I am fine with the Indefat and it being a 4th rate. The Constitution and USS just feel out of place as 3rd rates though. The ship in combat matches up better against other 4th rates and not up against the Bellona or 3rd rate. Not in a broadside battle. 

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I think the thing our dear american super frigates suffer the most from is their abysmal turnrate compared to other ships. The HP difference mostly evens out the DPS against, say, an Agamemnon. But especially for more skilled players, turnrate is arguably one of the most important stats on a ship. (Biggest reason for the popularity of the Hercules and the Snow in certain circles. *cough* @Gregory Rainsborough, @Carlos_Condell *cough*)
So personally I'd buff her speed slightly so that it can outrun all other 4ths and catch the odd  imprudent 5th rate, lower her HP a bit and reclass her to a 4th rate.

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USS United states is a frigate and should feel so, her force should be speed (sails surface ratio) in line with the 5th rates & thickness (ironside), her current hp buff feels super artificial. None of the US superfrigates would fight a lineship, but they could escape from them while they should bully smaller 5th rates with is broadsides weight & thickness+structure even if less manoeuverable.

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12 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

her current hp buff feels super artificial.

Her HP is based on displacement just like all the other ships.

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On 4/15/2019 at 10:17 AM, Durin said:

I heared that they made it a 3rd rate because of its high HP, and it makes sense if you only look at HP. But ofcourse it doesnt stand a chance vs other 3rd rates, even if it had 3 times the hp it has now ;)

HP should be totally irrelevant to the rating a ship gets. In every rate some ship have the most HP. So, according to the poor logic of this HP standard, that ship should be promoted to the next higher rating.  Using the number guns as the overwhelming consideration for how to rate a ship was good enough for history and so it should be good enough for this game.  Making the Connie and her sister ships a 3rd Rate was stupid.  The United States class FRIGATES were designed to be super frigates, or "Great Frigates" as the Brits called frigates with more than 40 guns.  They were designed to be able to out fight everything they could not outrun, and to out run everything they could not out fight.  All Ships of the Line had at least two gun decks below the weather decks for their main batteries and secondary heavy batteries with supplemental guns on the weather decks.  All frigates had ONE gun deck, either below the weather decks or on the main weather deck, and they essentially had from 30-59 guns.  Sloops of War (unrated) and Corvettes (rated) had less than 30 guns.  Ships of the Line had more than 60 guns.

The funniest thing I've noticed since this issue popped up is how the developers are trying to count EVERY gun, including bow and stern guns, to artificially inflate how many guns ships have.  But the only guns that matter for a ship's rating are its broadside guns.

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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Her HP is based on displacement just like all the other ships.

Displacement alone is a terribly simplistic and arbitrary way to determine HP.  HP should be a function of displacement AND how much of that displacement comes from its armor and its guns (i.e. how much of its displacement is due to its actual combat ability).  Two ships with identical displacement should not have the same HP when one of those two ships has three feet of armor from its thick hull while the other has no armor because it is only a cargo ship so it doesn't have any more hull than what it needs to keep out the water.  Not all displace is qualitatively the same.  The ship with no armor can easily be sunk with just a few holes below its waterline and nearly all of its hull/structure (i.e. HP) still intact.

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