On the issue of imported ship permits versus ready imported ships.

[Mr. Doran]

If you need evidence that people of my ilk were PVPers go look up "Rakers" on the forum search and that should provide you with at least the minimal level of credibility you so desire. I spent probably 90% of my time in OW solo-pvp hunting much like most of the people I played with. Out of my 2,000 hours playing I can say that most were not spent in Sea-Trials... though I really wish I could say they were. 

 

 

 

When you want to talk about how grindy and absent of updates NAL was then we can talk about why it failed. It was even publicly stated by GL that it was nothing more than a grind-test to see how long progression would take. You have to realize that NAL existed at the same time lee-way was being introduced and they did not even bother to implement it into NAL. Do you think it is any coincidence that the Exams allow you to skip all the way to MC on OW? Even some of the most ardent PVP arena players I knew threw up in their mouth when they learned that they would have to play through 7th-6th rates again. 

 

[jodgi]

42 minutes ago, Capitalism said:

Funny enough, it also has ten+ thousands of active daily players and an extremely vibrant PvP, PvE, RvR, and social tapestry to satisfy all play styles. 

Coincidence?

No coincidence at all. Of all those qualities you list I'm only interested in one: PvP, and when combat mechanics in EvE are what they are, there is absolutely no reason for me to play.

I'm sure EvE is a fantastic game for those so inclined.

The reason why I often take the bait in these discussions is because many posters desperately push the "arena will fail" idea. I know why so I try to refrain from even commenting. This is not that day. We can do the pissing contest.

NA OW was great/is great/will become great. NA combat mechanics are however better suited for PvP-on-demand gameplay and the recruitment pool is, by orders of magnitudes, larger. 

[Anne Wildcat]

Talking about arena games.  Personally I liked the destroy the tower port battle setup over capture the circles. Capture the circles seems too moba-arena-ish to me. 

 

Sorry for being off topic.

 

please make DLC ships craftable. 

[Barbarosa]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

When you want to talk about how grindy and absent of updates NAL was then we can talk about why it failed. It was even publicly stated by GL that it was nothing more than a grind-test to see how long progression would take. You have to realize that NAL existed at the same time lee-way was being introduced and they did not even bother to implement it into NAL. Do you think it is any coincidence that the Exams allow you to skip all the way to MC on OW? Even some of the most ardent PVP arena players I knew threw up in their mouth when they learned that they would have to play through 7th-6th rates again. 

What about proposing this under proper forum topic for another go with NA Legends?

It is perfect time to grab your mythical ardent pvp arena players and enjoy it as you like.

[Mr. Doran]

11 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

What about proposing this under proper forum topic for another go with NA Legends?

It is perfect time to grab your mythical ardent pvp arena players and enjoy it as you like.

All facts I have outlined to why NAL did not work have been stated repeatedly and will continue to be. It is up to "Admin" to begrudgingly acknowledge it.  

 

As to why it is being spoken about here? Some people like to speak of NAL and ST as examples to why OW must rise from flames; that OW is a fail-proof concept. The deepest of ironies exist in the fact of how many players are being alienated that could otherwise add to the server population if there was simply an arena outlet available in the current game. What exactly is the downside to having such a feature available? 

[Barbarosa]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

All facts I have outlined to why NAL did not work have been stated repeatedly and will continue to be. It is up to "Admin" to begrudgingly acknowledge it.  

 

As to why it is being spoken about here? Some people like to speak of NAL and ST as examples to why OW must rise from flames; that OW is a fail-proof concept. The deepest of ironies exist in the fact of how many players are being alienated that could otherwise add to the server population if there was simply an arena outlet available in the current game. What exactly is the downside to having such a feature available? 

You have this features now, with patrol zones and mid 1v1 zones, in sailing distance of 5 min from a port. Port battles are also instanced for equal battles and they exist since beginning for group play. You have small BR PB's and big BR PB's.

However, my aim was not to discuss with you about your gaming style. I respect it and would like if you find your enjoyment.

My point was to prove that there are many posts here proposing things that actually don't belong to open world sand box genre, misdirecting development. Thank you for this.

 

[Mr. Doran]

Just now, Barbarosa said:

You have this features now, with patrol zones and mid 1v1 zones, in sailing distance of 5 min from a port. Port battles are also instanced for equal battles and they exist since beginning for group play. You have small BR PB's and big BR PB's.

However, my aim was not to discuss with you about your gaming style. I respect it and would like if you find your enjoyment.

My point was to prove that there are many posts here proposing things that actually don't belong to open world sand box genre, misdirecting development. Thank you for this.

 

 

You are going to seriously try to compare the gank-zone and 1v1 zone inside the gank-zone to no loss on demand PVP? This is why I stay away from the Flemish Painter. 

[Barbarosa]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

You are going to seriously try to compare the gank-zone and 1v1 zone inside the gank-zone to no loss on demand PVP? This is why I stay away from the Flemish Painter.

Exactly my point, 2 different games that can not exist inside another. It is not genuine and wise trying to implement OW features to League of Legends or adding features to EVE for no loss on demand PvP.

May be it is time to start talking about NA Legends again for better focused discussions in their respective places.

[Mr. Doran]

1 minute ago, Barbarosa said:

Exactly my point, 2 different games that can not exist inside another. It is not genuine and wise trying to implement OW features to League of Legends or adding features to EVE for no loss on demand PvP.

May be it is time to start talking about NA Legends again for better focused discussions in their respective places.

You are telling me that they are incapable of putting an optional lobby based system inside the current game? Right. You wouldn't even need to try to "split" the player base at that point. It could only ever serve as a net positive to get people into NA to begin with. 

[Barbarosa]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

You are telling me that they are incapable of putting an optional lobby based system inside the current game? Right. You wouldn't even need to try to "split" the player base at that point. It could only ever serve as a net positive to get people into NA to begin with.  

We had it before. It was developers decision to remove it. They can implement it in a week if they want it since it is already coded.

23 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

You are telling me that they are incapable of putting an optional lobby based system inside the current game? Right.

No, I am telling that forum users can be manipulative with their lobbying, sometimes in very childish way.

Having NA and NA Legends both is not dividing the community. It will serve both games better in long run. The day lobby players leave NA forums for NA Legend forums I will consider it as a win for both games.

Edited April 13, 2019 by Barbarosa

[n_Ka]

DLC ship craftable,

DLC redeemable with the choice of the trim+wood+plank and the same randome possibility of to be gold/purple.

[Mr. Doran]

1 minute ago, Barbarosa said:

Having NA and NA Legends both is not dividing the community. It will serve both games better in long run. The day lobby players leave NA forums for NA Legend forums I will consider it as a win.

 

The failure to acknowledge the overlap between the two and how they can be mutually beneficial is pure lunacy. How having an additional source of players that can be picked from is a bad thing is beyond me.

 

Could you possibly explain to me why having the option to play a lobby based experience in the OW module would hurt OW? 

[Snoopy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Doran said:

[..]The deepest of ironies exist in the fact of how many players are being alienated that could otherwise add to the server population if there was simply an arena outlet available in the current game. What exactly is the downside to having such a feature available? 

This a million times. NA-L should be part of NA-OW, not a separate thing.

[Socialism]

NA L won’t exist inside NA because those in favor of playing won’t need to buy DLCs.  

[Barbarosa]

1 hour ago, Mr. Doran said:

The failure to acknowledge the overlap between the two and how they can be mutually beneficial is pure lunacy. How having an additional source of players that can be picked from is a bad thing is beyond me.

 

Could you possibly explain to me why having the option to play a lobby based experience in the OW module would hurt OW?  

You are not among additional source of players. You are different type of player.

Besides, as I stated before you have different tools for lobby play since very beginning. Port battles being one of them. 1v1 zone can be easily put out of normal patrol zone.

The problem of this lobby tools are as soon as you start loosing you have your excuses to not participate anymore. The population is very small to make it enjoyably for different tier of skills. You play it for a while till "winner, ganker, cheater" is decided. I am pretty confident that lobby players are nor after having lobby. They just want to cease the fun of others because is unreachable by them. If we have on demand lobbies one day, those players will only play till get dominated by some. OW leaves the options open to balance things.

DLC ships are to serve your saying  "no loss on demand PVP" in certain extent. You are asking for "on demand" part now since you already have "no loss" part. 

You were very very successful to direct game development to this point. The day you get on demand thing we should remove OW or keep it for authenticity only. The reason was explained many times. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Barbarosa

[Mr. Doran]

32 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

• You are not among additional source of players. You are different type of player.
• Besides, as I stated before you have different tools for lobby play since very beginning. Port battles being one of them. 1v1 zone can be easily put out of normal patrol zone.
• DLC ships are to serve your saying  "no loss on demand PVP" in certain extent. You are asking for "on demand" part now since you already have "no loss" part. 

 

2 hours ago, Barbarosa said:

Exactly my point, 2 different games that can not exist inside another. It is not genuine and wise trying to implement OW features to League of Legends or adding features to EVE for no loss on demand PvP.

May be it is time to start talking about NA Legends again for better focused discussions in their respective places.

 

Is this supposed to be a joke? Which one is it? Are the fake pvp gank-zones  the same as arenas or are they different? 

 

32 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

 

You were very very successful to direct game development to this point. The day you get on demand thing we should remove OW or keep it for authenticity only. The reason was explained many times.  

----------------

You play it for a while till "winner, ganker, cheater" is decided. I am pretty confident that lobby players are nor after having lobby.

 

 

A bit too far-fetched of a conspiracy don't you think? What is* the latter part even supposed to mean?

 

32 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

 

The problem of this lobby tools are as soon as you start loosing you have your excuses to not participate anymore. The population is very small to make it enjoyably for different tier of skills. You play it for a while till "winner, ganker, cheater" is decided. I am pretty confident that lobby players are nor after having lobby. They just want to cease the fun of others they can not reach. If we have on demand lobbies one day, those players will play till get dominated by some. OW leaves the options open to balance things.

 

You need to elaborate on what you are trying to actually say here. Are you saying it is a BAD thing that people could enjoy lobbies on and off whenever they felt like it? 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Mr. Doran

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Socialism said:

NA L won’t exist inside NA because those in favor of playing won’t need to buy DLCs.  

You've never played WoT, WoWS or WT have you? I'm not even sure I see what you're getting at...

[Socialism]

52 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You've never played WoT, WoWS or WT have you? I'm not even sure I see what you're getting at...

I'd explain it, but I like being able to post.  You can figure it out.

[John Page]

On 4/12/2019 at 7:01 AM, jodgi said:

On 4/12/2019 at 6:11 AM, Borch said:

auction from filthy eco players

Nothing is more unreasonably expensive than buying ships from crafters. Reals and doubloons is what I lack the most due to my PvE aversion. My crafting setup allows me to make ships for almost nothing and I occasionally help out fellow PvPers by giving them ships just as I have been given ships by other PVPers for free.

It's unreasonably expensive because econ has never been great and the model keeps shifting. Certainly it will always be cheaper**  to craft your own, otherwise no one would sell anything. **(in money/reals whatever we're using these days, but not time. It always takes time to craft, that's the trade off). However, with enough people to compete, the prices should generally become lower (i.e. be more competitive), but the market has to be fair and free in order for that to work. Fair and free meaning resources can be reasonably obtained, with some being more rare but not as difficult as they are now, i.e. less restrictions. Also, I think @TheLoneWolf mentioned earlier in this thread some suggestions that would work or help alleviate current issues, in my opinion. Yes, here they are: 

 

I think there are many reasons why economy has never been the greatest, but the leading reason has to be @admin just never really intended for this game to be economy based, and I believe it was originally brought in to satisfy the many requests for it. The economy/crafting system delivered for a time, but was never really quite there yet, and now, like LoneWolf, I am not sure where it will go.

 

Sincerely,

[Barbancourt]

On 4/13/2019 at 4:57 AM, Snoopy said:

This a million times. NA-L should be part of NA-OW, not a separate thing.

I'd just like to have fixed senario/composition "lobby" battle events in game that either all players can sign up for, or perhaps a competitive version between nations with some kind of OW RvR effect.  The ships would be senario ships appropriate to your rank, with a basic setup and very limited repairs.  No mods or knowledge slot nonsense.  I bought NA because of the Sea Trials youtubes with a vision of being in huge naval battles, but good battles rarely happen in the open world game because of all the shenanigans. 

 

[Licinio Chiavari]

On 4/10/2019 at 2:15 PM, admin said:

On the issue raised by Hachiroku Anolytic and many other captains. 

There was a proposal on this forum (i think it was Ojk but can be mistaken)

Proposal was this: sell the permit that the player then will craft (unique ship but still participating in the economy).
Initially thought a great idea. 

Evolution of imported (DLC) ships thinking was this.

• Premium ships was announced when we did not even think about the open world (in 2014)
• Premium ships were initially thought as unique status items, a more beautiful alternative. 
• Some ships introduced over time were not crafteable (Wasa, Hermione) to give us the option to add them to premium roster without taking away crafteable ships. 
• First experiments were ran with Hercules and LRQ (it wa good to do it in early access as many things were discovered and learnt as a result)

Now many players say that DLC ships reduce the role of the economy, and that there should be deep and interesting MMO economy. 

But let's get this straight. 

• Crafting was introduced last, and is a least cooked feature, as all focus was always on combat model, rvr and ROE (lately PVE). 
• Hauling was somewhat forced onto players because some time ago we wanted everyone to be the target. 

And here is the main discovery.

• Players do not buy DLC ships for uniqueness.
• They do not buy them because they are stronger or weaker than others (there is always a better crafted ship, sometimes 5/5 crafted ship). Rattvisan is definitely not the best 4th rate. 
   
• They do buy them to support developers (thank you everyone for support)
• And they buy them to avoid participation in the exciting economy (mainly hauling).

Trading goods is rewarding and has both risk AND profit. Hauling goods for crafting is boring, not exciting, is risky but gives you no real rewards (you make a ship that you will soon lose anyway). 

Thats why making permit based DLC ships is not going to achieve anything. Thats not what customers want.
 

Now. 
Here is the rug change that will tie the room together. 

• Port investments will remove hauling requirements for basic resources for all players who play with friends or have friendly clans in the nation.
• Clans (and you can have a small clan and capture a distant port to use it) will invest into
  • production of all basic resources in their port
  • defenses to protect it
  • shipbuilding to improve ships built in this region.
• By doing so - player will get ALL basic resources in one location, completely removing hauling requirements out of the picture. Saving time and getting ships by just spending LH and cooperating together to get rare woods if needed. 

Clan can decide if they want these investments to be available to them only, to friends or to everyone who can build in this port.
 

 

As a result.

• Clans who developed the port will be able to get ships with one click.
• Enemy clans who do not want to spend time developing ports can try to capture the port from the enemies (why build if you can cap). 
• There will be a lot less time wasted on hauling and more fighting. 

Question, in delay.

How can DLC (and note got) ships be barely competitive vs. same size port-improved ships of same size... being DLC already not OP?

Now the wood issue is solved with last patch.

 

How can sincerely a Rattvisan (already not the strongest 4th rate - your words) 3/5 (lower trim chances) engage with any chance even a 3/5+trim Indef with 5/5 port topped upgrades?

 

Honestly locking any upgradability to DLC and note ships could be very bad.
Getting a DLC will soon becoming not a free ship but a free target for enemy crafted ships.

Is that intended? if yes: shouldnt this well noted in DLC selling page?

[Angus MacDuff]

As it stands right now (changes will happen i'm sure), DLC use for me will die out.  Why sail a second rate ship if I can build something superior.  Yes it takes more time to get a crafted ship...BUT THAT IS THE GAME.  I will always sail the best ship that I can acquire.  #DLCisdead.

[Licinio Chiavari]

2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

As it stands right now (changes will happen i'm sure), DLC use for me will die out.  Why sail a second rate ship if I can build something superior.  Yes it takes more time to get a crafted ship...BUT THAT IS THE GAME.  I will always sail the best ship that I can acquire.  #DLCisdead.

Indeed I liked DLC not being OP. And they were not before last patch. They were fine.

And last ones are definately medium.

They got better woods... but even this is now past.

So they will be really totally DEAD... and trying to sell them as game assets could be on the border of circumventing buyers unaware of all game mechanics.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Licinio Chiavari

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Indeed I liked DLC not being OP. And they were not before last patch. They were fine.

And last ones are definately medium.

They got better woods... but even this is now past.

So they will be really totally DEAD... and trying to sell them as game assets could be on the border of circumventing buyers unaware of all game mechanics.

Now they are PTL (pay to lose)

[Slim McSauce]

You need something to offset the value of meta where you have free ships to pull and use almost exclusively. DLC being low risk, the reward can and be low (a less powerful ship in battle, but more powerful in OW scheme) where all you have to do is press one button to have a ship appear in any port.