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On the issue of imported ship permits versus ready imported ships.


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On the issue raised by @HachiRoku @Anolytic and many other captains.  There was a proposal on this forum (i think it was @OjK but can be mistaken) Proposal was this: sell the permit that t

But doesn't that remove a part of the gameplay -raiding? Me and many other clan members prefer that kind of gameplay, probably other people too. Personally I don't want to fight just for the sake of t

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At the moment, it is evident that the devs changed the game to force players to buy the dlc by making all good woods very rare, makings permits tedious to obtain, introducing RNG for the ships I want to sail and making ai very tough so you loose ships.  When ai 2nd rates can out dps a full maxed (hp and reload) 1st rate something is very wrong.  ATM the current level of ai is absurd and I can only imagine what it would be for a new player or how gaining xp will be after the wipe.  Most player will not have ships unless they purchase the dlc.  Less players = less content.  I do not wish to sail an oak or fir ship and do not want to contend with players that have the rare woods because they bought the dlc.  Although I like the added content of dlc players i will not play along or be forced into purchasing dlcs for a game I already paid for.  I have never posted a negative steam review but shall be more happy to do so.  I used to enjoy this game but ATM my level of frustration with this game and the direction in which it is heading has reached a summit.  I have a job and do not wish for a game to become one.  There is a total disregard for the part time or casual player ATM.  Devs should listen to players and reading from the comments on the forums atm players are very displeased.  Steam reviews also confirm this.  @admin you should read and pay attention to the player reviews. 

Edited by TheLoneWolf
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On 4/10/2019 at 1:15 PM, admin said:

Enemy clans who do not want to spend time developing ports can try to capture the port from the enemies (why build if you can cap). 

I think this is a bad idea and it will just make all but the biggest clans reluctant to develop a port. If a port is captured it should be reset to an undeveloped state as the leaving nation would have destroyed as much infrastructure as possible to deny access to the enemy. At the very least the new owner of the port should have to but some development in to bring the port back up to developed status, i.e. simulate the repair of burnt warehouses, destroyed fortifications etc.

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19 minutes ago, jodgi said:

The opening post is about exactly that.

But in the opening post Admin said that with the new port upgrades non-DLC players will be able to produce ships with just a few clicks similar to the DLC owners, so my suggestion is to put both sets of players on equal footing, so both can get normal wood ships with the same ease, but if they want rare wood ships they have to put in some more effort.

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Please nooo. When i first started playing, i really loved the idea of moving resources from port to port and craft ships like that, removing this will make the game a lot more arcadish in a bad way.

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3 hours ago, jodgi said:

You're not paying attention to your precious eco then, because they lose their guns while guys in cheap crafted ships get almost every penny back.

I already disproved this in another thread, but you still like to keep repeating it. The insurance hardly covers the cost of the crafted ship let alone the cannons, while the person who has multiple DLC ships can just redeem and sell one to get Reals for cannons.

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3 minutes ago, o7Captain said:

i really loved the idea of moving resources from port to port

You don't have to use the port investment feature, you can keep on sailing.

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On day one (final wipe game release) i can redeem all dlc ships sell them and get money advantage over all none dlc owner. 

But its only a concern for day 1

Edited by z4ys
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5 hours ago, Communism said:

You stated an opinion, fact is dlc is hurting the econ, and for some players, Econ is the game.

So yes some people can say dlc is hurting the game in their eyes. There are many econ/traders/crafters I know who have quit because of devs ignoring this side.

you have no idea what this game coulda been. 

Ps take it easy on the Fox news

Rare wood types are hurting the economy, not DLC. Sooner or later, people will get tired of taking out their ratt or Pandora, simply cuz it cant perform to other 4th rates and so on.its not the DLC, it's the wood.

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I use DLC ships for multiple reasons.

  • I can redeem it where ever I need it, so it saves me a tow.
  • I get to chose the exact wood combination, what ever type I want with out having to find, buy and haul the exotic woods to a crafting port.
  • I often use redeemed ships to four fill a very specific task right then and there. When the task is done I sometimes destroy the ship, if I'm low on dock space. This saves me from having multiple tailor crafted and fitted ships models in different wood combinations holding up dock slots and awaiting their time to shine. All my ships are basically the same setup, and if I need something outside my normal setup, I just redeem, use and sink or later destroy.

Now most of my favorite ships require permits to be crafted. Permits require me to either grind doubloons, combat medals or reals to buy the others. And I do not sail out and get resources to craft 1 ship. For me crafting is a gathering/hording process I do not enjoy at all. So I gather tings one by one in ridiculous quantities som when I'm done  I will not have to repeat the process for a very long time. Now the exotic woods are hard to get and  if you want large amounts you need to grind doubloons to access it. It just feels like you put up this grinding wall for crafting good ships. If the permits where just for the line ships I would say nothing against it, but for Trincomalee and Surprise!? That's my workhorses, at least they used to be..  
When you at the same time release 2 new DLC ships I feel forced to buy those and that is when I start to get a bad feeling.

Please balance ship crafting so replacing 7. - 5. rates is easy! Replacing 4. rate should be noticeable more difficult and the difficulty should escalate for the larger ship rates. But again it should be possible for all players to craft a 1. rate, given enough time. To clarify: remove all permits for smaller ships than 4. rates and give us more ports that spawn the exotic woods, or inform the player base of where alle the forest are located and lower the doubloon price for collecting 5000 woods from  the port. Lowering the doubloon price will make it more attractive to actually take the port, and it helps if we know where it is also.. 

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14 hours ago, Diceman said:

I never said DLCs were necessary. They do give the casual player an opportunity to play without having to do a huge grind. More players playing = more PvP. That is not a bad thing considering that there is a giant number of post on these forums moaning about a lack of PvP. The Devs give a solution that makes more PvP likely and you still complain. Unreal!!!

OK. But there's no calculable increase in player-base due to DLC ships being available. There is notable decrease in reception on the Steam reviews because of the pay2win element. Reviews are pivotal when deciding to purchase a game so this is not a downside to be taken lightly.

Somewhere along your(well intentioned) reasoning is a a fault, because the solution proposed by the developers has not solved the initial problem of playerbase, or lack of PVP and has caused a new problem of this game being labeled as p2w, and the economy (which is core of an MMO) being diminished to irrelevancy.

I would say the real problem with pvp is seen when you look at the map, it's completely void of any tally-able information on what the realm is doing, what battles are being fought and wars waged. It's just empty. If you wanted more pvp you should make it easier to find with OW objectives and territory control, blockade missions and raids so people don't have to sail hours looking for a fight or worse, settling for country capitals or patrol zones which are static and really just a front for lobbies.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

OK. But there's no calculable increase in player-base due to DLC ships being available. There is notable decrease in reception on the Steam reviews because of the pay2win element. Reviews are pivotal when deciding to purchase a game so this is not a downside to be taken lightly.

Somewhere along your(well intentioned) reasoning is a a fault, because the solution proposed by the developers has not solved the initial problem of playerbase, or lack of PVP and has caused a new problem of this game being labeled as p2w, and the economy (which is core of an MMO) being diminished to irrelevancy.

I would say the real problem with pvp is seen when you look at the map, it's completely void of any tally-able information on what the realm is doing, what battles are being fought and wars waged. It's just empty. If you wanted more pvp you should make it easier to find with OW objectives and territory control, blockade missions and raids so people don't have to sail hours looking for a fight or worse, settling for country capitals or patrol zones which are static and really just a front for lobbies.

Honestly, idk if player base is up or down... I don’t have those stats.

I do know that I got offline like 5 minutes ago and during my 3 hr play session 3 dudes in nation chat said they are just back into game (all rear admirals btw) wowing about how different the game seems... One, I had an extended chat with giving assistance...

I’m not seeing this lack of PvP... all I have to do is leave Cton and away we go... My most recent video on YouTube, our guy didn’t even make out of the harbor mouth before he got tagged by a couple French... It took the first ten minutes just to get out of the harbor entrance choke point to get room to maneuver... fun fight btw!! 

You used to be US, right? If you’re having trouble finding PvP you need to comeback... we got a rotation of French, Pirates, and Russians here...

As for the Steam reviews. I look at those with a degree of mistrust. They strike me like the mainstream media with their Russian collusion talking points... which all turned out to be lies!!

Kinda like the dude on YouTube who did the dirty devs videos and had no real earthly idea how the game works... just barfing up a bunch of talking points he was fed by butthurt players... I mean the dude quoted Lord Vicious... lol!!

I will continue to play and I will continue to buy DLC I like ...especially the USS President (you listening Devs?? ;) ) 

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The stats are Steam charts and Steam reviews. That's what will dictate post-launch success of NA. Doesn't matter what you think of the people who dislike the game, what matters is what the people who dislike the game think. The concerns are legitimate, p2w is a slipperly slope, and it's killed many large titles. Some of you may be content with ignoring the fire, but most people (and we've seen this largely already take place) are going to get the hell out. Why return when NA is to be turned to rubble? The writing is on the wall, NA is not going to survive it's release. Time to move on. Eventually someone will do it again, who knows, maybe they'll do it right.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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On 4/10/2019 at 6:15 AM, admin said:

And here is the main discovery.

  • Players do not buy DLC ships for uniqueness.
  • They do not buy them because they are stronger or weaker than others (there is always a better crafted ship, sometimes 5/5 crafted ship). Rattvisan is definitely not the best 4th rate. 
     
  • They do buy them to support developers (thank you everyone for support)
  • And they buy them to avoid participation in the exciting economy (mainly hauling).

Trading goods is rewarding and has both risk AND profit. Hauling goods for crafting is boring, not exciting, is risky but gives you no real rewards (you make a ship that you will soon lose anyway). 

The first 3 points I believe are correct. The 4th point I would have to disagree with. It's not that people are avoiding participating in the economy, it's that the economy is nearly impossible to participate in.

For years there have been enough people willing to participate in the economy, haul resources, craft ships, etc. to sustain a vibrant ship market. It used to be that capital ports and free towns had many pages of ships for sale. I don't think this changed because a re-bodied Wasa was added as a DLC and everyone is content with it. People want to be able to craft ships, they used to craft ships.

Consolidating "basic" resources in one place is not going to fix the problem, rare woods are currently way too rare, and all the permits need to be available for some amount of Victory Marks, Combat Metals, or Doubloons.

 

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3 hours ago, Bull Hull said:

One of the bottom lines I get out of this is that large clans will totally dominate nations and smaller clans and solo/lone wolf players who have no interest in joining a clan are pretty much totally SOL.

actually its the opposite , .. clans dont need to take ports .. the idea of developing a port for crafting and defence is defunct before its even introduced .. why would a clan spend time developing a port  when they just need yo spend  a few dollars on a a dlc ,, no need to spend time developing a port with ship yards and production .. just redeem a dlc a day

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This port development might not work as expected. If all big clans of a nation go to the same port, develop and defend it, without the need to haul mats from other locations, there is no use in owning more ports.

In the extreme all ports except for one or two near the capital would stay neutral.

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5 hours ago, --Privateer-- said:

It's not that people are avoiding participating in the economy

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Even before player production I started the first of my many schemes to avoid as much contact as possible with eco gameplay. In the early days I actually advocated for the removal of everything eco, I've dialed back on that because I don't want to ruin someone else's fun (however inexplicable it is to me). I started asking for premium ships in early 2015 in order to have a back door out of the eco gameplay.

We premium ship users will let you enjoy your eco stuff.

Why do you seek to keep us from playing the game how we like?

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31 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Even before player production I started the first of my many schemes to avoid as much contact as possible with eco gameplay. In the early days I actually advocated for the removal of everything eco, I've dialed back on that because I don't want to ruin someone else's fun (however inexplicable it is to me). I started asking for premium ships in early 2015 in order to have a back door out of the eco gameplay.

We premium ship users will let you enjoy your eco stuff.

Why do you seek to keep us from playing the game how we like?

You can avoid the eco play, if there are enough goods, resources AND ships in markets. But there is no eco in this game, and i´d might say, there will be none.

No need to craft anything IF everything is available from those which are devoted to such type of gameplay. In that order the game has to ALLOW others to trade and craft. Currently, and i would say with the new direction of the game, as recently stated, there is no need at all to haul goods( delivery missions give you enough reales, actually by hauling NOTHING), or to craft Fir/Oak ships(because prolly nobody would buy them).

So,buy DLC ships and "enjoy".

p.s. ( crafting cannons and repairs ain´t crafting)

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May I suggest to roll back economy to 2016? With the multi-dura ships as they were available in that time with our new damage model, todays ships and todays battle mechanics.

In those old times people were really happy with the game (so was I), which showed in steam reviews which were nearly all positive.

With the old multi-dura ships the new DLCs wouldn't be a problem anymore. 

Edited by Sea Archer
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32 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

I don't see what would have given you that idea.

Yea, that was unfair. I lobbed you in with with the DLC whiners.

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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

We premium ship users will let you enjoy your eco stuff.

It's not just 'stuff. It's not just one thing that players who like it can do or not, it's the absolute lifeblood of an mmo. Without 'eco stuff' there is no game!

The combat mechanics are very good, yes. But this alone can't sustain an mmo. Fight after fight with DLC where no one cares about losing a ship will get very boring very quickly for many (i think most) people (it already has for me). There's just no point to it. NAL failed, miserably, so we already have some evidence for this.

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Why do you seek to keep us from playing the game how we like?

The opposite is true. A working economy with multitudes of roles for players to play, crafters, traders, haulers, hunters, RvR'ers, PvPers, PvE'ers, soloists, duellists: each having a space to play and experiencing how those players interact and respond to conflict is what made the game enjoyable and interesting and is what should have been developed and expanded on. 
NA badly lacked this before and now it has been all but abandoned. This has been (in my personal experience) by FAR the most cited reason for active players leaving the game.

NA suffers from low pop and so there is a shortage of PvP and the player base clamours for more (understandably). Features like DLC, Patrols, slim lined crafting, reduced hauling requirements, less R Zones have been promoted to encourage more 'fighting' but this is only ever a short term 'fix'. The econ stuff needed to be developed further, so there was more to do and players could take part in the game world, this attracts more players and then with higher pop the PvP pretty much looks after itself anyway.

An arena style PvP game with the only economy remaining, dominated by a handful of players and where the only option left to take part is to buy DLC does not seem to me to be a very attractive model for potential new players. 

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1 hour ago, Sea Archer said:

In those old times people were really happy with the game (so was I), which showed in steam reviews which were nearly all positive

I remember all the wining about tve economy back then. 🙂

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