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On the issue of imported ship permits versus ready imported ships.

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On 4/10/2019 at 2:15 PM, admin said:

On the issue raised by Hachiroku Anolytic and many other captains. 

There was a proposal on this forum (i think it was Ojk but can be mistaken)

Proposal was this: sell the permit that the player then will craft (unique ship but still participating in the economy).
Initially thought a great idea. 

Evolution of imported (DLC) ships thinking was this.

  • Premium ships was announced when we did not even think about the open world (in 2014)
  • Premium ships were initially thought as unique status items, a more beautiful alternative. 
  • Some ships introduced over time were not crafteable (Wasa, Hermione) to give us the option to add them to premium roster without taking away crafteable ships. 
  • First experiments were ran with Hercules and LRQ (it wa good to do it in early access as many things were discovered and learnt as a result)

Now many players say that DLC ships reduce the role of the economy, and that there should be deep and interesting MMO economy. 

But let's get this straight. 

  • Crafting was introduced last, and is a least cooked feature, as all focus was always on combat model, rvr and ROE (lately PVE). 
  • Hauling was somewhat forced onto players because some time ago we wanted everyone to be the target. 

And here is the main discovery.

  • Players do not buy DLC ships for uniqueness.
  • They do not buy them because they are stronger or weaker than others (there is always a better crafted ship, sometimes 5/5 crafted ship). Rattvisan is definitely not the best 4th rate. 
     
  • They do buy them to support developers (thank you everyone for support)
  • And they buy them to avoid participation in the exciting economy (mainly hauling).

Trading goods is rewarding and has both risk AND profit. Hauling goods for crafting is boring, not exciting, is risky but gives you no real rewards (you make a ship that you will soon lose anyway). 

Thats why making permit based DLC ships is not going to achieve anything. Thats not what customers want.
 

Now. 
Here is the rug change that will tie the room together. 

  • Port investments will remove hauling requirements for basic resources for all players who play with friends or have friendly clans in the nation.
  • Clans (and you can have a small clan and capture a distant port to use it) will invest into
    • production of all basic resources in their port
    • defenses to protect it
    • shipbuilding to improve ships built in this region.
  • By doing so - player will get ALL basic resources in one location, completely removing hauling requirements out of the picture. Saving time and getting ships by just spending LH and cooperating together to get rare woods if needed. 

Clan can decide if they want these investments to be available to them only, to friends or to everyone who can build in this port.
QOGCpwG.png 

 

As a result.

  • Clans who developed the port will be able to get ships with one click.
  • Enemy clans who do not want to spend time developing ports can try to capture the port from the enemies (why build if you can cap). 
  • There will be a lot less time wasted on hauling and more fighting. 

Question, in delay.

How can DLC (and note got) ships be barely competitive vs. same size port-improved ships of same size... being DLC already not OP?

Now the wood issue is solved with last patch.

 

How can sincerely a Rattvisan (already not the strongest 4th rate - your words) 3/5 (lower trim chances) engage with any chance even a 3/5+trim Indef with 5/5 port topped upgrades?

 

Honestly locking any upgradability to DLC and note ships could be very bad.
Getting a DLC will soon becoming not a free ship but a free target for enemy crafted ships.

Is that intended? if yes: shouldnt this well noted in DLC selling page?

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As it stands right now (changes will happen i'm sure), DLC use for me will die out.  Why sail a second rate ship if I can build something superior.  Yes it takes more time to get a crafted ship...BUT THAT IS THE GAME.  I will always sail the best ship that I can acquire.  #DLCisdead.

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2 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

As it stands right now (changes will happen i'm sure), DLC use for me will die out.  Why sail a second rate ship if I can build something superior.  Yes it takes more time to get a crafted ship...BUT THAT IS THE GAME.  I will always sail the best ship that I can acquire.  #DLCisdead.

Indeed I liked DLC not being OP. And they were not before last patch. They were fine.

And last ones are definately medium.

They got better woods... but even this is now past.

So they will be really totally DEAD... and trying to sell them as game assets could be on the border of circumventing buyers unaware of all game mechanics.

Edited by Licinio Chiavari

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2 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Indeed I liked DLC not being OP. And they were not before last patch. They were fine.

And last ones are definately medium.

They got better woods... but even this is now past.

So they will be really totally DEAD... and trying to sell them as game assets could be on the border of circumventing buyers unaware of all game mechanics.

Now they are PTL (pay to lose)

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You need something to offset the value of meta where you have free ships to pull and use almost exclusively. DLC being low risk, the reward can and be low (a less powerful ship in battle, but more powerful in OW scheme) where all you have to do is press one button to have a ship appear in any port. 

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Honestly.. stop trying to spin bullcrap about DLC ships not being op and appeal to what the devs want to hear..

If the OP DLC ships cant hold out on their own against port perked crafted vessels, people wont buy them as much and shazam.. they will allow port bonuses to DLC ships.

These kinds of DLC are a form of paid cheats(you get around certain game mechanics such as hauling and crafting and they also dont require you to be so good at sailing either since they are boosted) as was stated in original post. Casual and bad players wanna feel good about themselves and they will cough up the cash for these instant gratification boats. I bet my left testicle the devs will make sure the DLC boats will have the upper hand cos thats the only reason people buy them.

Give it a few weeks, possibly months and your precious cheaty DLC boats will get perked up. Or then the port perks will get nerfed to hell, at which point you will achieve the same outcome; Crafted boats are super expensive with crappy port bonuses and take an eternity and a half to craft with rare woods... and DLC ships can flex with their daddies credit cards.

 

If the devs wanted honest support, they would provide a go fund me link. But they went all in on this DLC crap and thats a rabbit hole you dont climb out of(though it does get them a lot more money if you have ever read up on game theory).. imagine how pissed off the instant gratification weeabos would be if you suddenly took their toys away from them or nerfed them? Devs chose to do DLC route so now the only way they can get people to support the development of the game is to offer the players cheaty boats.

 

UPDATE

I'm already looking forward to when they announce loot boxes 😂

Edited by Dostojetski
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12 minutes ago, Dostojetski said:

UPDATE

I'm already looking forward to when they announce loot boxes 😂

Oh man, you're right....

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I would like to request sales graphs..

The flags DLC is the only DLC that is in the spirit of truly supporting development, it offers no cheat nor perk to gameplay.

I would like to see how well the flags DLC has fared against all the other DLCs.

 

Before all this DLC crap I hoped to see a monthly subscription to support this game.. now it isnt even worth the spit to spat on.

 

UPDATE

One last thing

Developers, please hire someone who is an expert on game theory or sustainable development. I mean, you cant be so stupid that you don't see how the DLC boats are hurting your game. You have created a game which is essentially a diamond in the rough. Like EVE Online in its early days, you have something unique and there are no other games like it right now. But if you want this game to last, you need to stop giving instant gratification options to people.. are you truly so stupid and blind that you do not realize; if you let people hit the endgame instantly, they wont stick around for long. Yes, in your greedy little minds this will get you a lot of green quickly but that wont last. I guess you are aware of this and you are now doubling down to make max profit.

You saw how many players you had starting off and that was before anyone even knew this game existed(the casuals). You can still have those players and thousands more but in order to get them.. you need to show that you are willing to go for the long haul instead of instant gratification(yes, it goes both ways). Right now you are only showing people that you have absolutely no intentions to keep this game developing after launch :C EVE Online has been going for 19 years, you had a shot at that.

Edited by Dostojetski
rant to devs
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40 minutes ago, Dostojetski said:

The flags DLC is the only DLC that is in the spirit of truly supporting development, it offers no cheat nor perk to gameplay.

Well, there is the "painter" DLC ableit it does not have many cool paints yet, only the old ones... it is the other purely cosmetic DLC.

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1 minute ago, Sovereign said:

Well, there is the "painter" DLC ableit it does not have many cool paints yet, only the old ones... it is the other purely cosmetic DLC.

you can sell the paints. Apply to ship, sell ship.. profit

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1 minute ago, Dostojetski said:

you can sell the paints. Apply to ship, sell ship.. profit

Fair point but I don't see people paying a lot for paints now that they are so easy to get with DLC... if someone really wants paints he will pay the 13$ instead of ingame currency.

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4 hours ago, Dostojetski said:

Honestly.. stop trying to spin bullcrap about DLC ships not being op and appeal to what the devs want to hear..

If the OP DLC ships cant hold out on their own against port perked crafted vessels, people wont buy them as much and shazam.. they will allow port bonuses to DLC ships.

These kinds of DLC are a form of paid cheats(you get around certain game mechanics such as hauling and crafting and they also dont require you to be so good at sailing either since they are boosted) as was stated in original post. Casual and bad players wanna feel good about themselves and they will cough up the cash for these instant gratification boats. I bet my left testicle the devs will make sure the DLC boats will have the upper hand cos thats the only reason people buy them.

Give it a few weeks, possibly months and your precious cheaty DLC boats will get perked up. Or then the port perks will get nerfed to hell, at which point you will achieve the same outcome; Crafted boats are super expensive with crappy port bonuses and take an eternity and a half to craft with rare woods... and DLC ships can flex with their daddies credit cards.

 

If the devs wanted honest support, they would provide a go fund me link. But they went all in on this DLC crap and thats a rabbit hole you dont climb out of(though it does get them a lot more money if you have ever read up on game theory).. imagine how pissed off the instant gratification weeabos would be if you suddenly took their toys away from them or nerfed them? Devs chose to do DLC route so now the only way they can get people to support the development of the game is to offer the players cheaty boats.

 

UPDATE

I'm already looking forward to when they announce loot boxes 😂

What if, as I repeatly proposed, that if I redeem a DLC I get a free ship with no bonuses (even only 3/5 no trim) BUT I am allowed to craft her too if I wish to use THAT ship, not because THAT ship is redeemable but because I like THAT ship?

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8 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

What if, as I repeatly proposed, that if I redeem a DLC I get a free ship with no bonuses (even only 3/5 no trim) BUT I am allowed to craft her too if I wish to use THAT ship, not because THAT ship is redeemable but because I like THAT ship?

And by crafting the boosted DLC ship you are asking to add port bonuses on it, right?

Whats the point, really? Just bribe the devs with money and Im sure they will enable godmode for you.

 

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Hello

I bought some DLC ship because it was an easy way to get a competitive ship without spending my time (or my money to buy alt to get rare wood's) it was also a way to suport game development.

This ship weren't OP .

Ratvisan or Hermione aren't OP ship.

Now they are just becoming useless , so i paid , i give money to earn dev and this guy's just spit on my face .Why this ship's should be easy pray ...Why the Hermione should become a shiti ship in one day...

Dev you don't have any respect for your customer's .

Give port bonus to DLC if you redeem in your crafting port .....

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This whole thread has become absolutely hilarious. 

NPC 1:  DLC ships are OP and cheaty!!!!

NPC 2: DLC ships have become useless.  Why did I buy them?!?

ME:  Meta players are funny.  

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42 minutes ago, Dostojetski said:

And by crafting the boosted DLC ship you are asking to add port bonuses on it, right?

Whats the point, really? Just bribe the devs with money and Im sure they will enable godmode for you.

Is an Herc, Pandora, Ratt, Req God mode? are you kidding?

Even months ago the super feared requin was not God mode. I hunted them usually with a privateer just to make proportions.

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12 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

This whole thread has become absolutely hilarious. 

NPC 1:  DLC ships are OP and cheaty!!!!

NPC 2: DLC ships have become useless.  Why did I buy them?!?

ME:  Meta players are funny.  

I could agree.

Still you could agree that within some weeks with port buffed crafted ship getting bonuses and starting sailing around - with rare woods too, DLCs for sure will be totally not competitive toe to toe vs. similar sized enemies lacking too many stats.

Note: I did not propose to get port bonuses redeeming. Because crafting is really more time consuming.

I just proposed that if I have a DLC I get the ship BP in shipyard too. I can get a (subpar) free ship instant... or I can sail a competitive crafted Rattvisan or Pandora... because, may be I really like to sail that ship.

Is this so game breaking?

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11 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I could agree.

Still you could agree that within some weeks with port buffed crafted ship getting bonuses and starting sailing around - with rare woods too, DLCs for sure will be totally not competitive toe to toe vs. similar sized enemies lacking too many stats.

Note: I did not propose to get port bonuses redeeming. Because crafting is really more time consuming.

I just proposed that if I have a DLC I get the ship BP in shipyard too. I can get a (subpar) free ship instant... or I can sail a competitive crafted Rattvisan or Pandora... because, may be I really like to sail that ship.

Is this so game breaking?

I would be very happy to have the choice to craft the Herc or have the option to just redeem a note for a basic 3/5.  I would choose crafting most times.

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1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

I could agree.

Still you could agree that within some weeks with port buffed crafted ship getting bonuses and starting sailing around - with rare woods too, DLCs for sure will be totally not competitive toe to toe vs. similar sized enemies lacking too many stats.

Note: I did not propose to get port bonuses redeeming. Because crafting is really more time consuming.

I just proposed that if I have a DLC I get the ship BP in shipyard too. I can get a (subpar) free ship instant... or I can sail a competitive crafted Rattvisan or Pandora... because, may be I really like to sail that ship.

Is this so game breaking?

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all.....   I think that was a very reasonable request.

But then again, I'm of the firm opinion that ALL ships should have a reasonable chance of victory, with tactics and skill mattering more than meta gear.

I'm far more worried about rebalancing sailing profiles and mods/bonuses to reasonable levels.

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2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Oh, I don't disagree with you at all.....   I think that was a very reasonable request.

But then again, I'm of the firm opinion that ALL ships should have a reasonable chance of victory, with tactics and skill mattering more than meta gear.

I'm far more worried about rebalancing sailing profiles and mods/bonuses to reasonable levels.

Indeed my proposal is based on today level (ports!) potential (full) bonuses.

The previous less chances of better quality ship was totally fine: even a couple mod edge (granted same gear level, not basic crap vs top notch) will not break the battle balance.

But this stacking of mod and investments (+ proposed nerf to mod/book) will make port bonuses central and counter-balance-able for DLCs.

And sincerely, I'm not speaking a lot for myself: Requin is so unique that probably, if properly handled, will be able to maintain a small (smaller and smaller vs. portbuffed Niagaras and Princes for example) niche.
I am really worried more about balanced (or even a bit subpar) ships like the other DLCs.

Even right now a Herc/Pandora have small chances vs a properly handled Surprise.
Which against a 4/4/4/4/4 (and even a few less will not change) port bonus Surp?

Death. Only death.

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