Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

On the issue of imported ship permits versus ready imported ships.

Recommended Posts

I believe it is as the @admin said;

DLC ships are:

1. For players who do not have the time/wish to participate in the economy

2. Ships that are different from other vessels in the game (A variation or just the same ship with a different name)

 

However, this does not take away that economy is indeed important for an MMO as we have so brightly discussed here, let me throw in my two cents here:

The economy from 2016/ early 2017 was very enjoyable for me, it got better imho when ships went to 1 durability as this adds to the need to craft more ships. If we compare this to the current economy the only main difference is that ships are, material wise, cheaper to manufacture and easier to manufacture (not taking permits into account). I do not mind the economy being changed like this as it makes it a little more accesible for players due to the lower LH requirements as all the parts were removed.

 

As for the DLC ships in the economy; Yes, they are able to select any wood and are redeemable every 24h and will remove some of the need for crafted ships, HOWEVER the highest rate is a 4th rate, admittedly it is a darn good ship but not overpowered like the Hercules and Le Requin when they started out. I think we can say that the Dev's learned from that mishap. So, these ships only impact the economy for a small bit, since there are ships in the same class that have outright better performance than their DLC "counterpart". This does not take away that at the moment there is almost no need for crafting or any fuel in the economy as there are no players to burn ships. I do believe that IF the game releases, gets wiped AND manages to gather a decent playerbase at launch the economy will settle down in a decent way.

Do not get me wrong, there are definitely points that could do with improving in the economy but as is I do not believe it is that bad. It has been made fairly simple compared to 2 years ago but the essentials are there.

 

Then onto the last point of my essay; Port investments (since they were already discussed here).

I think that this should be a possibility however I do not think that it should allow a clan or nation to just outright get all the mats without hauling as that would be a rather essential part to a functioning economy in an MMO (take for example EVE and PotBS) as they require players to produce resources in a certain location which has a higher risk level and transport them to a safe area where their production facilities are set up.

The way to go about the Port Investments in my opinion is to allow the owning clan to invest in the settlement which could have some or all of the following effects:

  • Increased productivity/ labour hour discount.
  • "Stronger" forts/towers (Ex. forts have 9 pounders standard, and can go up to 24 (32?) pounders with investment.
  • Ability to control buildings in other settlements (Ex. Outpost in Caracas has been invested into and I have production means in Willemstad, that would enable to me produce my goods in Willemstad) or enable players to build in their other outposts from the invested outpost.
  • Discount on locally produced goods (Say 10%, which basically makes it tax free for clan members).
  • Lower building costs.
  • More AI traders (Foreign and Local).

*Some of these are taken from the current clan settings as I believe they would make more sense if you invested in the city, which improves your clan's standing with said city and thus will grant you more privileges.

 

Kind regards,

Abraham

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2019 at 2:26 AM, Hullabaloo said:

There's just no point to it. NAL failed, miserably, so we already have some evidence for this.

 

 

On 3/15/2019 at 1:04 AM, Mr. Doran said:

In Sea Trials you had people being actively siphoned off to OW once that became an option and I am sure portions of the population outright quitting once it was definitely confirmed there would be an OW. Simultaneously its not fair to compare numbers to a game you had to pay for on pay-pal that was not even on steam until late January if my memory serves me right; along with the fact users were being siphoned to OW prior to that point along with my latter point. NAL, in your own words, was largely a grind test to see how long the grind would take. Including the fact that we were forced to fight bots is it any surprise to you that your PVP game did not have a strong retention rate? How many players did you think would find it fun to be grind slaves for the sake of data collection? Worst crime of all was the combat-model was imbalanced and not being attended to at all during the duration of NAL. The imbalanced funky one that existed on the OW build was better than what we got on NAL. The farming and battle imbalance was absolutely horrific with the cannon grinding. You could have a 12lb Constitution fighting a 24lb one.

 

What could have gone wrong, right?

 

I loved my Sea-Trials experience. So much so I had the most amount of duels and at some point if not by the very end the most amount of PVP battles. 

I absolutely hated my NAL experience to the core. Not because I was spoiled rotten by OW. But because NAL did not even come close to ST in its ability to provide PVP. The exact polar reactions should say a lot about the quality of experience between the two products. 

 

On 2/23/2019 at 12:58 PM, Mr. Doran said:

 

    They can’t be entirely blamed for trying. Even if all I say is true if the life-support plug was pulled it may produce an irreparable blight that will follow them to oblivion; maybe its just sunk cost fallacy (lel). Critics of the arena model cite Legends poor player retention as the smoking gun of the sustainability of the model and that OW should be the only focus. What is simultaneously failed to be mention is NAL was nothing more than a poor effort on part of Game-Labs. NAL was nothing more than a horrific grind test where you were forced to play with and against bots most of the time. Including the fact that it was missing key combat components such as double shot or, the fact that the demasting penetration tables were so out of whack as to make demasting non-existent, or the fact that there was not even a sail repair but a cool-down that could be used as many times as you could pop it in a battle.

    The original arena product provided in Sea Trials was better designed and more well thought out than what we were provided with NAL. In ST the grind was not sadistically unreasonable as there was no cannon grinding. In ST we were never forced to fight bots when queuing for PVP. In ST we even had a duel room, the fleet battle room (Trafalgar), and even a custom battle room. If Game-Labs followed just to start with what they already had done and knew worked NAL would have not been the disaster zone it was. The only thing that can be hoped for is next time they consider knowledge and lessons they had already known five years in the past.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Mr. Doran in parenthesis :

Please allow me to add in your description of what players expected, during the passage from Sea trials to OW, two kinds of pro-OW : the MMO fans (who got NA OW with clans, trading, RvR, crafting...) and others dreaming of a more simulation/historical/realistic experience in navigating, sailing and fighting with weather conditions, shallow waters... (often less interested in crafting, trading, economy...).

btw GL I am sure there's still a market for the latter. 🙂

Edited by LeBoiteux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2019 at 6:01 AM, jodgi said:

It's not, though I appreciate the effort to include me in the grand eco scheme.

You play EVE so I fully understand why you fight for eco.

I've given a very wide berth to EVE, not because of spaceships but because that game is a near perfect example of eco gameplay. 

Funny enough, it also has ten+ thousands of active daily players and an extremely vibrant PvP, PvE, RvR, and social tapestry to satisfy all play styles. 

Coincidence?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you love lobby based game so much why you didn't supported Legends when it was tested? The game test was shot down in 1 week for obvious reasons. There was no campaign to not play it, many were excited, nobody jumped with ideas about how bad it would be.

Your NA Legend failed, designed for players exactly like you and for casuals who have 1 hour per day.

Why you are so keen to push this game to another failure?

I wholeheartedly believe that you are not here to improve this game by advocating lobby style gaming. You are here to kill the fun others have. None of you were part of RvR glories/failures, none of you enjoy PvP as you claim here (pvp players know each other, cause they encounter each other, you are not among them), none of you enjoy nation drama, conquests and losses, none of you love trading, none of you enjoy sailing in OW, in which you have no idea what will happen next. I bet you spend more time in forums than in game. 

However, I admit that you have won the forum war. RvR/OW players either banned or very few remained posting in forums. Some enjoying playing the game in their limited spare time and many disappointed just waiting for release to see how it will be.

People bought the game as open world sandbox game. Server population is proof that their expectations were not met.

Dear developers, you can not design this game by surrounding yourself and  listening minority of players who never represented the NA community. I can assure you that their understanding of the game is very limited. It was very sad to see some moderators seeking to join a RvR clan to experience it properly after 4 years of development. :(

Edited by Barbarosa
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you need evidence that people of my ilk were PVPers go look up "Rakers" on the forum search and that should provide you with at least the minimal level of credibility you so desire. I spent probably 90% of my time in OW solo-pvp hunting much like most of the people I played with. Out of my 2,000 hours playing I can say that most were not spent in Sea-Trials... though I really wish I could say they were. 

 

fbbdb8834911ba0eac07d1bdc9184cd6.png

 

 

When you want to talk about how grindy and absent of updates NAL was then we can talk about why it failed. It was even publicly stated by GL that it was nothing more than a grind-test to see how long progression would take. You have to realize that NAL existed at the same time lee-way was being introduced and they did not even bother to implement it into NAL. Do you think it is any coincidence that the Exams allow you to skip all the way to MC on OW? Even some of the most ardent PVP arena players I knew threw up in their mouth when they learned that they would have to play through 7th-6th rates again. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Capitalism said:

Funny enough, it also has ten+ thousands of active daily players and an extremely vibrant PvP, PvE, RvR, and social tapestry to satisfy all play styles. 

Coincidence?

No coincidence at all. Of all those qualities you list I'm only interested in one: PvP, and when combat mechanics in EvE are what they are, there is absolutely no reason for me to play.

I'm sure EvE is a fantastic game for those so inclined.

The reason why I often take the bait in these discussions is because many posters desperately push the "arena will fail" idea. I know why so I try to refrain from even commenting. This is not that day. We can do the pissing contest.

f9c1152225fce895575758b641735091.png

aef9978a9c2bdce094225f02124eb473.png

5c28133ecbbcc56a8431f8dfb20af6d9.png

31d0f39f7d782d9b9a32ff0e03b4b4cf.png

NA OW was great/is great/will become great. NA combat mechanics are however better suited for PvP-on-demand gameplay and the recruitment pool is, by orders of magnitudes, larger. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking about arena games.  Personally I liked the destroy the tower port battle setup over capture the circles. Capture the circles seems too moba-arena-ish to me. 

 

Sorry for being off topic.

 

please make DLC ships craftable. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

When you want to talk about how grindy and absent of updates NAL was then we can talk about why it failed. It was even publicly stated by GL that it was nothing more than a grind-test to see how long progression would take. You have to realize that NAL existed at the same time lee-way was being introduced and they did not even bother to implement it into NAL. Do you think it is any coincidence that the Exams allow you to skip all the way to MC on OW? Even some of the most ardent PVP arena players I knew threw up in their mouth when they learned that they would have to play through 7th-6th rates again. 

What about proposing this under proper forum topic for another go with NA Legends?

It is perfect time to grab your mythical ardent pvp arena players and enjoy it as you like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

What about proposing this under proper forum topic for another go with NA Legends?

It is perfect time to grab your mythical ardent pvp arena players and enjoy it as you like.

All facts I have outlined to why NAL did not work have been stated repeatedly and will continue to be. It is up to "Admin" to begrudgingly acknowledge it.  

 

As to why it is being spoken about here? Some people like to speak of NAL and ST as examples to why OW must rise from flames; that OW is a fail-proof concept. The deepest of ironies exist in the fact of how many players are being alienated that could otherwise add to the server population if there was simply an arena outlet available in the current game. What exactly is the downside to having such a feature available? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

All facts I have outlined to why NAL did not work have been stated repeatedly and will continue to be. It is up to "Admin" to begrudgingly acknowledge it.  

 

As to why it is being spoken about here? Some people like to speak of NAL and ST as examples to why OW must rise from flames; that OW is a fail-proof concept. The deepest of ironies exist in the fact of how many players are being alienated that could otherwise add to the server population if there was simply an arena outlet available in the current game. What exactly is the downside to having such a feature available? 

You have this features now, with patrol zones and mid 1v1 zones, in sailing distance of 5 min from a port. Port battles are also instanced for equal battles and they exist since beginning for group play. You have small BR PB's and big BR PB's.

However, my aim was not to discuss with you about your gaming style. I respect it and would like if you find your enjoyment.

My point was to prove that there are many posts here proposing things that actually don't belong to open world sand box genre, misdirecting development. Thank you for this.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Barbarosa said:

You have this features now, with patrol zones and mid 1v1 zones, in sailing distance of 5 min from a port. Port battles are also instanced for equal battles and they exist since beginning for group play. You have small BR PB's and big BR PB's.

However, my aim was not to discuss with you about your gaming style. I respect it and would like if you find your enjoyment.

My point was to prove that there are many posts here proposing things that actually don't belong to open world sand box genre, misdirecting development. Thank you for this.

 

 

You are going to seriously try to compare the gank-zone and 1v1 zone inside the gank-zone to no loss on demand PVP? This is why I stay away from the Flemish Painter. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

You are going to seriously try to compare the gank-zone and 1v1 zone inside the gank-zone to no loss on demand PVP? This is why I stay away from the Flemish Painter.

Exactly my point, 2 different games that can not exist inside another. It is not genuine and wise trying to implement OW features to League of Legends or adding features to EVE for no loss on demand PvP.

May be it is time to start talking about NA Legends again for better focused discussions in their respective places.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Barbarosa said:

Exactly my point, 2 different games that can not exist inside another. It is not genuine and wise trying to implement OW features to League of Legends or adding features to EVE for no loss on demand PvP.

May be it is time to start talking about NA Legends again for better focused discussions in their respective places.

You are telling me that they are incapable of putting an optional lobby based system inside the current game? Right. You wouldn't even need to try to "split" the player base at that point. It could only ever serve as a net positive to get people into NA to begin with. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

You are telling me that they are incapable of putting an optional lobby based system inside the current game? Right. You wouldn't even need to try to "split" the player base at that point. It could only ever serve as a net positive to get people into NA to begin with.  

We had it before. It was developers decision to remove it. They can implement it in a week if they want it since it is already coded.

23 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

You are telling me that they are incapable of putting an optional lobby based system inside the current game? Right.

No, I am telling that forum users can be manipulative with their lobbying, sometimes in very childish way.

Having NA and NA Legends both is not dividing the community. It will serve both games better in long run. The day lobby players leave NA forums for NA Legend forums I will consider it as a win for both games.

Edited by Barbarosa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DLC ship craftable,

DLC redeemable with the choice of the trim+wood+plank and the same randome possibility of to be gold/purple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Barbarosa said:

Having NA and NA Legends both is not dividing the community. It will serve both games better in long run. The day lobby players leave NA forums for NA Legend forums I will consider it as a win.

 

The failure to acknowledge the overlap between the two and how they can be mutually beneficial is pure lunacy. How having an additional source of players that can be picked from is a bad thing is beyond me.

 

Could you possibly explain to me why having the option to play a lobby based experience in the OW module would hurt OW? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr. Doran said:

[..]The deepest of ironies exist in the fact of how many players are being alienated that could otherwise add to the server population if there was simply an arena outlet available in the current game. What exactly is the downside to having such a feature available? 

This a million times. NA-L should be part of NA-OW, not a separate thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mr. Doran said:

The failure to acknowledge the overlap between the two and how they can be mutually beneficial is pure lunacy. How having an additional source of players that can be picked from is a bad thing is beyond me.

 

Could you possibly explain to me why having the option to play a lobby based experience in the OW module would hurt OW?  

You are not among additional source of players. You are different type of player.

Besides, as I stated before you have different tools for lobby play since very beginning. Port battles being one of them. 1v1 zone can be easily put out of normal patrol zone.

The problem of this lobby tools are as soon as you start loosing you have your excuses to not participate anymore. The population is very small to make it enjoyably for different tier of skills. You play it for a while till "winner, ganker, cheater" is decided. I am pretty confident that lobby players are nor after having lobby. They just want to cease the fun of others because is unreachable by them. If we have on demand lobbies one day, those players will only play till get dominated by some. OW leaves the options open to balance things.

DLC ships are to serve your saying  "no loss on demand PVP" in certain extent. You are asking for "on demand" part now since you already have "no loss" part. 

You were very very successful to direct game development to this point. The day you get on demand thing we should remove OW or keep it for authenticity only. The reason was explained many times. 

Edited by Barbarosa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:
  • You are not among additional source of players. You are different type of player.
  • Besides, as I stated before you have different tools for lobby play since very beginning. Port battles being one of them. 1v1 zone can be easily put out of normal patrol zone.
  • DLC ships are to serve your saying  "no loss on demand PVP" in certain extent. You are asking for "on demand" part now since you already have "no loss" part. 

 

2 hours ago, Barbarosa said:

Exactly my point, 2 different games that can not exist inside another. It is not genuine and wise trying to implement OW features to League of Legends or adding features to EVE for no loss on demand PvP.

May be it is time to start talking about NA Legends again for better focused discussions in their respective places.

 

Is this supposed to be a joke? Which one is it? Are the fake pvp gank-zones  the same as arenas or are they different? 

 

32 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

 

You were very very successful to direct game development to this point. The day you get on demand thing we should remove OW or keep it for authenticity only. The reason was explained many times.  

----------------

You play it for a while till "winner, ganker, cheater" is decided. I am pretty confident that lobby players are nor after having lobby.

 

 

A bit too far-fetched of a conspiracy don't you think? What is* the latter part even supposed to mean?

 

32 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

 

The problem of this lobby tools are as soon as you start loosing you have your excuses to not participate anymore. The population is very small to make it enjoyably for different tier of skills. You play it for a while till "winner, ganker, cheater" is decided. I am pretty confident that lobby players are nor after having lobby. They just want to cease the fun of others they can not reach. If we have on demand lobbies one day, those players will play till get dominated by some. OW leaves the options open to balance things.

 

You need to elaborate on what you are trying to actually say here. Are you saying it is a BAD thing that people could enjoy lobbies on and off whenever they felt like it? 

Edited by Mr. Doran
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Socialism said:

NA L won’t exist inside NA because those in favor of playing won’t need to buy DLCs.  

You've never played WoT, WoWS or WT have you? I'm not even sure I see what you're getting at...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, jodgi said:

You've never played WoT, WoWS or WT have you? I'm not even sure I see what you're getting at...

I'd explain it, but I like being able to post.  You can figure it out.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/12/2019 at 7:01 AM, jodgi said:
On 4/12/2019 at 6:11 AM, Borch said:

auction from filthy eco players

Nothing is more unreasonably expensive than buying ships from crafters. Reals and doubloons is what I lack the most due to my PvE aversion. My crafting setup allows me to make ships for almost nothing and I occasionally help out fellow PvPers by giving them ships just as I have been given ships by other PVPers for free.

It's unreasonably expensive because econ has never been great and the model keeps shifting. Certainly it will always be cheaper**  to craft your own, otherwise no one would sell anything. **(in money/reals whatever we're using these days, but not time. It always takes time to craft, that's the trade off). However, with enough people to compete, the prices should generally become lower (i.e. be more competitive), but the market has to be fair and free in order for that to work. Fair and free meaning resources can be reasonably obtained, with some being more rare but not as difficult as they are now, i.e. less restrictions. Also, I think @TheLoneWolf mentioned earlier in this thread some suggestions that would work or help alleviate current issues, in my opinion. Yes, here they are: 

 

I think there are many reasons why economy has never been the greatest, but the leading reason has to be @admin just never really intended for this game to be economy based, and I believe it was originally brought in to satisfy the many requests for it. The economy/crafting system delivered for a time, but was never really quite there yet, and now, like LoneWolf, I am not sure where it will go.

 

Sincerely,

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/13/2019 at 4:57 AM, Snoopy said:

This a million times. NA-L should be part of NA-OW, not a separate thing.

I'd just like to have fixed senario/composition "lobby" battle events in game that either all players can sign up for, or perhaps a competitive version between nations with some kind of OW RvR effect.  The ships would be senario ships appropriate to your rank, with a basic setup and very limited repairs.  No mods or knowledge slot nonsense.  I bought NA because of the Sea Trials youtubes with a vision of being in huge naval battles, but good battles rarely happen in the open world game because of all the shenanigans. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...