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Just now, HachiRoku said:

This is what makes me really angry about the community. When it's only 6th rates it's no problem but 4th rates is were we draw the line. Why? Broken game mechanics are broken game mechanics.

It's a problem at 6th rate but a small one because it only effect those ships, then when it hits 4th rate we look down and realize we're frogs in a boiling pot of water. The line was drawn at DLC ships, once that was crossed there's no more line to be drawn.

DLC dropped too suddenly it seems, we had no discussions prior to how it should be done or what it will do down the line. If there were 20 threads on the topic of DLC ships before they were released I'm positive we would've reached a conclusion that redeemable ships  in this form could be very detrimental to the game.

Like if there was a thread asking what will DLC in this form look like a year down the line, we would've predicted today's controversy and could've steered clear from the backlash being faced now. Right? I don't remember any community polls or discussions on what's the best way to do DLC ships if we're do it. We had not time to figure it out.

Lack of foresight then has us thinking in hindsight. Effects of an idea is what we talk about most in suggestion threads is it not? How did we not see this coming? Only one explanation, the community had not the adequate time to discuss and reach consensus on DLC before it was added. Otherwise we would've avoided this mess all together.

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3 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Always been of the view, to be able to bypass the crafting by paying money is fine

Explain, because if you sell the economy away then you have no more economy, and how can you have an open world MMO without economy? Personally you may prefer to not do crafting, and rather buy ships for real money, but have you stopped to think what that may do to crafters when people stop buying their ships in game. Say if half the people in your country stopped paying taxes then programs are going to start falling apart, no?

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17 hours ago, The Banned Sailor said:

And what about Painter DLC ? :D

Devs got a nice opportunity with paints to add some trading content between players (trading dyes and fabrics from different regions and locations to get some colors etc) and they just added old paints system into DLC ... and for few ships (for the moment).

I don't actually mind that. I actually wish they had made it more expensive or made multiple paint DLCs. I would have bought them all but now with pay2win DLC ships ruining the game more and more I am not so sure anymore...

Cosmetic DLCs should have been the focus. I guess that ship has sailed.

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10 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I don't actually mind that. I actually wish they had made it more expensive or made multiple paint DLCs. I would have bought them all but now with pay2win DLC ships ruining the game more and more I am not so sure anymore...

Cosmetic DLCs should have been the focus. I guess that ship has sailed.

Could have done a dlc for each paint set....100% would have been better than this.

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57 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Could have done a dlc for each paint set....100% would have been better than this.

imagine how much they would have earned if they did 4$ For lets say Trincomalee paints etc, would have forgotten everything about requin and hercules dlc because they could be implemented as normal ships.

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1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said:

nope

 

Thanks for replying.  Wasn’t sure. If DLC ships were craftable, I’d be fine with DLCs.

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On 4/7/2019 at 12:25 PM, Graf Bernadotte said:

I agree. Only permit should be redeemable. But eco is much more broken than only by DLC ships. Access to rare woods is locked for most players. Transport of resources takes too much time. We have too few ship tows. Trading has no real impact on game. We won't get a great eco before release anymore. But we should expect a working economy at least.

We need sendable AI Ships for Trading. That woud change a Lot ingame

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5 hours ago, Routan said:

Not sure you are right abouth ppl would buy permits at that price, neither sure if ppl  did,  it would give more PvP. Ppl would worry abouth lose the ship because it cost money. But just a guess.

Neither is  permit the only problem in ship crafting today. Woods and upgrades to. For my self I can say I wouldn’t spend money on the permit dlc. But neither have I bought the last two dlc ships. 

But from a RvR point you are right abouth the dlc ships. Why now care about ports when you just can redeem a ship.

We might actually end up with 2 dlc ships systems. 4 rate and belove as now and 3 rate and higer you buy permits. Guess that would be there way to get more OW PvP and still let RvR matter to some point.

Buy permits to sell in game is in my opinion P2W. Ore am I missing something?

It would be arguably P2W yes. It would still not have any effect on the ingame eco(tiny bit but not major) and battles. Another problem dlc ships do is they deny anyone capping them. I personally think it's the most logical solution. Dlc in sandbox is very hard to do... 

If I were the devs I would have tested selling single permits first. 3 euro for a permit.  Is not much but players would buy and after sinking they might buy again. From a business standpoint I really think giving players unlimited ships for a one time payment is bad idea anyway. They won't get regular income. People are stupid and will keep buying after sinking. It would be far better for game mechanics too. I really don't care if the devs milk peoples money if the ingame mechanics don't suffer. 

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3 hours ago, Wyy said:

imagine how much they would have earned if they did 4$ For lets say Trincomalee paints etc, would have forgotten everything about requin and hercules dlc because they could be implemented as normal ships.

Thats what I don't get. Players that say they are cash grabbers have to be wrong. I could milk people way better without them even complaining. Look at gta. Rockstar rips people off bigtime and the idiots still defend them.... 

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It’s not Pay 2 Win; we’re on a path to optional Pay 2 Play.

With so many DLC ships a player could pretty much avoid PVE, the Economy, and Crafting and still participate fully. He can buy forged papers so he doesn’t need to worry about nation building, he can go where he’ll be strongest. He won’t need crafting/production ports so his slots can be dedicated to maximize play. Repairs, lineships, reals, doubloons he can obtain through trade by using all the combat medals and other rewards he’s getting since he needs to spend so little time worrying about his fleet.

On the other hand, another player’s financial outlay could be merely game purchase price and get everything else through game means. He wouldn’t have the DLC ships but he’d have the permitted ships, wealth, etc. He’ll just have to spend a lot of time pursuing it. (If we lose the RNG aspect of permits) he’ll just have to work harder.

This plan works in theory. In reality it’s going to be almost impossible to get right and keep it balanced.

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In my opinion the free-crafting-DLCs do not comply to an economy driven world like NA. It is more made for some arena game.

If you have to by the DLCs for being able to craft special ships  (so you may get a permanent permit), I don't see any problem. 

Maybe the devs should open a server for that arena fighting, where you will have your ship with two clicks, and change the OW DLC into permits.

I haven't bought a single DLC myself, since I see my ships as a reward for my efforts in collecting mats and crafting something. Don't know how others see it, most likely different. 

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17 hours ago, Farrago said:

It’s not Pay 2 Win; we’re on a path to optional Pay 2 Play.

With so many DLC ships a player could pretty much avoid PVE, the Economy, and Crafting and still participate fully. He can buy forged papers so he doesn’t need to worry about nation building, he can go where he’ll be strongest. He won’t need crafting/production ports so his slots can be dedicated to maximize play. Repairs, lineships, reals, doubloons he can obtain through trade by using all the combat medals and other rewards he’s getting since he needs to spend so little time worrying about his fleet.

The problem here is that the amount of Eco needed to support a successful RvR campaign against a clan that owns the DLCs is currently gamebreakingly high, leaving the DLC owner to win by default.
Ergo: Pay2Win

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2 hours ago, Capitalism said:

If you have nothing to add to a thread other than "game to die" then refrain from posting.

-Moderator Hethwill - 

OMG I so want to know what that said. 

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So I'm not in game that much these days but I've been playing consistently since Jan 2016 I think it was just as open world was made a thing, I must say @HachiRoku is correct players are buying DLC ships as a work around for the cost in reals and most importantly time involved in crafting ships the old fashioned way. Frankly I find it very very unrewarding sinking a ship  I know the player can magic back onto server worst case 24 hours I die involves 3 hours of my life sailing stuff from A to B...And gud knows what else... the playerbase feels like the devs are building a craft/ grind wall either side of you and leading you to the convienance of DLC.

Only DLC I've paid for is building slots..

A pal gifted me herc DLC and as much as I loved her if I'm honest owning redeeming and sailing it is CHEATING (game mechanics)...

I have no alts and as much as I hated all the sailing required to be able to store resources so I could replace losses fairly easily it was a part of the game and made winning or losing actually have meaning...now with all DLC hanging around it is like going to arcades throwing in a coin win or lose means nothing next arcade game please..therefore ruining the meaning of naval action purpose.....

 

So yeah thanks .....having to play silent hunter 5 so I can still have my sea wallpaper background on monitor...

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8 minutes ago, Spitfire83 said:

Frankly I find it very very unrewarding sinking a ship  I know the player can magic back onto server worst case 24 hours

So you derive pleasure and meaning from inflicting grinding pain on others? Neat.

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11 minutes ago, Spitfire83 said:

Short answer:  Yes..

1

You're not alone.

Your name is Spitfire so I can't really be mad at you, anyway.

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Yeah, that's a big "NO" from me.  I'm sorry to say this, but I paid for a ship that I don't have to build.  If they changed it they really would be breaking steam rules.  

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This game is potentially a grand and beautiful Sand Box, in which Players build their Empires in many ways for many purposes.  I have enjoyed playing and testing it for the past three years and a few months.  The game offers multiple challenges and competing demands that a Player must constantly juggle -  do I make that resource run or do I join this Port Battle?;  do I spend al my money on Trade Goods so I can have MORE money or do I buy this Ship/Item in the Shop right now?; do I level up the Bellona or the Surprise?; do I rush off to PvP in the Patrol Zone or go lurk in Shipping lanes?  This keeps Players engaged and motivated.  But in the past few months seemingly much of that has been hastily undone in a rush to get the game out the door.

If you want Players to have a strong Ship as a DLC, fine; but then also let all the other Players who toil the way the game was designed Craft the Ship so they are NOT penalized by not having the DLC.  Along the same lines, ALL the Permits for ALL Craftable Ships should be available for purchase; otherwise you are setting it up for Players to quit the game out of frustration of waiting for a random drop.  If you still want some Ship Permits to come from Chests, then don't make the drops random - label the Chests as "Surprise Permit plus" or some-such, so a Player can be certain that his/her labours will pay-off.

Additionally, please fix the "Fleet the DLC Ships" Exploit:  Currently, a Player can redeem the same DLC every 24 hours and stack them in a Fleet.  This allows them to have 4 available at any given time to flood the seas in a mad rush.  The fix for this is simple:  Once a Player downloads a certain DLC Ship, then that DLC is LOCKED for them until the Ship is Sunk/Captured.  The moment said DLC Ship is Sunk/Captured, only then should the 24 hr clock begin for the refresh of the DLC.

You have potentially one of the best games ever made, please don't bind its feet just prior to release...

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@jodgi  detailed answer 

How many wars have been lost due to supply line issues/logistics..unable to replace losses fast enough to justify the continued onslaught, well that use to be a thing in naval action DLC removes at least a portion of that. 

 And I think that's pretty obvious to anyone who thinks about it..

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23 hours ago, Spitfire83 said:

@jodgi  detailed answer 

How many wars have been lost due to supply line issues/logistics..unable to replace losses fast enough to justify the continued onslaught, well that use to be a thing in naval action DLC removes at least a portion of that. 

 And I think that's pretty obvious to anyone who thinks about it..

He wouldn't know since he didn't do rvr. Many players that defended the current system do not play rvr. I noticed that pattern a while ago. 

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On 4/6/2019 at 11:58 AM, HachiRoku said:

The whole point of this topic is that DLC ships that are not crafted are game breaking by design. Redeeming a NOTE will KILL the game.

Currently this is 100% true, if it's going to take months (not even exaggerating) to craft a ship that can match a Liveoak/Whiteoak Rattvisan that is redeemed in seconds, the game won't last.

However, I don't think the solution is to make DLC ships harder to obtain, that would alienate the players who simply don't have the time or patience to play the crafting game. So, instead of making DLC ships harder to get, it must become far easier to craft ships. And not just oak/oak frigates, I mean actual ships that can actually be used. Rare woods need to become far less rare and all the permits need to be available in the shop.

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