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7 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

Norfolk nChance [ELITE]

Ps

A Balls of Steel move would be to Un-Ban everybody from the last month as an amnesty…

 

You're a far better person than I....  

In my mind, once you venture outside of the "family" of the GL forums and start ACTIVELY promoting for the failure of the game and spreading of half-truths and negativity, you lose any right to join in the use of that work.

You're literally attacking my means of providing for my family.  As well as those that depend on me for employment.

Banning you from enjoying the fruits of my work is the LEAST I'd want to do.

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7 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

You're a far better person than I....  

In my mind, once you venture outside of the "family" of the GL forums and start ACTIVELY promoting for the failure of the game and spreading of half-truths and negativity, you lose any right to join in the use of that work.

You're literally attacking my means of providing for my family.  As well as those that depend on me for employment.

Banning you from enjoying the fruits of my work is the LEAST I'd want to do.

That family sounds a lot like a cult, If you are proffesional you take in all feedback. It is literally your job. You should not try to act as in siege mentality as if there is "right" and "wrong" side ..

Edited by manuva85
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5 hours ago, Joernsson said:

Despite its dizzying complexity, Naval Action currently lacks any kind of in-game tutorial mode, a fact which has led many to brand it too obtuse and difficult. However, Zasov claims that he and his team have had feedback from numerous players who say they actually prefer learning the ropes (no pun intended) for themselves.

"Some players do prefer it this way!" he says with a laugh. "They don't want the game to do a lot of handholding. We trust our player intelligence and most of the core mechanics are done in the way that players can learn them themselves."

Source: https://www.redbull.com/in-en/naval-action-interview-red-bull-games

 

Probably Devs believe this is still the case today... Although the tutorial is already in game meanwhile.

The game is rife with complex and unknowable aspects that can have a big impact on a player. I don't know how anyone can make serious progress or be successful without being part of a strong clan that they hang out with in TS or Discord. How many times have I heard a newer player ask an innocent question and then get a five minute education from someone, or multiple people, about all the aspects of that thing and all the implications and twists?

I don't think handholding is the answer and I wouldn't expect the devs to program in more tutorials or new interfaces at this point in the development cycle, but maybe some pop-up tips or hover-over texts would be helpful. I'd imagine this community could come up with a big list of these types of tips and identify where and when to show them.

A simple example might be, when you enter a battle with a ship in fleet, pop up a message that says 'Stay close to your fleet to maximize firepower!'. That little tip would be the answer to hundreds of posts about how completely useless fleet ships are when you are attacked, they'd just be mostly useless then ;)

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On 4/2/2019 at 11:47 AM, admin said:

Removing the open communication will remove the sources for frustration. 

It is sad that it had to come to this but maybe it is for the better. There are too many people wasting your time - too many haters / negative people and too many apple-polishers and fanboys. 

What you really need is players with significant game experience that provide honest and unbiased feedback that considers as many players / playstyles as possible, aswell as your vision for the game.

What really helps development the most is well conceived, respectful and constructive negative feedback. I am sure it is nice to hear positive feedback and you deserve it for your excellent work but does it help the game / development? No, it really doesn't ( except for motivating you maybe ). But constructive negative feedback can lead to an improvement, if you can agree with it / see it from their perspective.

I think if you want to ask the community on their opinion, you should do polls. It doesn't waste much of your time and you can see all opinions without having to read through dozens of pages.

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@Vernon Merrill

It Would be a big call, but I think @admin could easily turn the public perception around by my complete idea proposed. It is a risk I know...

The comments here I find amusing and we as a general rule focus on the STEAM Reviews. Yet we as a whole put little if any effort into supporting the STEAM forums. The ideas are all discussed here and here alone.

The once a month YouTube done properly gives people a sense of been heard. Even if their idea is not liked, rather than just ignored. This reinforces the repetitive negative posts. Shouting from the roof tops, like in the case of Banished...

Client interfacing is what all businesses are about. The action by @admin although I sympathise, it actually moves Game-Labs further away from its customer and not closer...

 

But that’s just my opinion…

 

Norfolk

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3 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 ... ideas and suggestions over glasses red.

Ah, that's the secret! As I like most of your ideas, will you kindly tell which red wine you do prefer? I'll try that. Maybe it helps to improve my level of ideas, too. :)

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all this shit caused by a spoiled little brat. Give him your hand and he will take your arm. You should have banned him sooner if you ask me. You did nothing wrong on the communication side. I use many forums and bans are something very common. For some reason people here just take it super personal. I have been in games were I was banned after 10 min :) 

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8 hours ago, admin said:

There will be no more discussions in public.
There will be community liaisons selected from players and nations who will talk to a general public and pass information we should look at to us. 
More information will follow some time in the future.

Why bother, if you're clearly so upset with people feedback? Official patch notes thread is locked. No new thread made. RoE thread locked. DLC ships locked. Why would you need liaisons to pass the information back and forth then? Besides, from what I remember you had plenty of mods in the past that resigned from that position after disagreement with you. You also had a plan of involving mods themselves more into your future plans and such. From what I remember this idea was shortlived and nowdays mods doesn't know more than common players.

So, I'm asking again, how is liaisons going to be different from what we already had? With everything locked you may as well just turn the light off.

3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

all this shit caused by a spoiled little brat. Give him your hand and he will take your arm. You should have banned him sooner if you ask me. You did nothing wrong on the communication side.

It was actually more than spoiled brat. All started with broken XP promise and while I tottaly agree with full wipe and dont care about that promise, admins choice of words was poor at best. That was wrong on the communication side.

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2 hours ago, Borch said:

It was actually more than spoiled brat. All started with broken XP promise and while I tottaly agree with full wipe and dont care about that promise, admins choice of words was poor at best. That was wrong on the communication side.

I honestly don't mind the wipe and glad I'm getting to keep the harder thing to collect in this game and that was the books. I haven't had a good book drop in ages, basicly just scrap mods for the most part.  not sure what they done with the loot tables, but I haven't had time to try to get some of the new chest and test them out lately.

For me it was exactly this, how they presented the info to us and how they reacted.  I actually been wanting more wipes leading up to the relase to better test things, but seems they are going to drag this out and keep makign changes and not get it done.   Make some final announcements,  drop the patches with proper good detail notes.  Give time for feed back or bug finding and get this game released.  At least to a beta stage or soemthing to be even more ready for final release.  Which still doesn't look like any time soon at this rate.  So I'm guessing witner time release?

 

Oh and I still think the Pandora DLC thing is wrong, that was suppose to be something special for all EA players not any one can buy it.  They could of codded it diffrently like give every one EA the BP of the ship as a perm redeemable that once  you learn it you know it.   Oh well what is done is done.  I'm just going to sit back on the side lines for now until the game releases and see where things go from there.

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The irony of irony happened to me today. My comment on sids YouTube video were deleted apparently. I called him a retard to be fair but I did give him good reasons. You guys know I always justify calling someone a retard. I'll need to look into the matter a bit since I don't know how YouTube deals with toxicity. Comment is gone for sure

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15 hours ago, vazco said:

Pala, there are many ways to communicate. I understand that devs will not go into discussion with people, but will still post patch notes and read what people reply. There will be also mods who still will care for the community. This is a good change, and don't prevent exchange of information and feedback.

 

It works when on every idea, even the stupidiest ones, you say "thanks for feedback", or don't say anything, and then do what YOU think is best. You only risk misunderstanding someone's idea when you don't go into discussion. Weighting it out, it's less of a risk than enflaming people due to going into discussion.

Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a bad idea per se. Though the picture it creates is not too positive. Fighting heated up communications with a "comm stop" creates the feeling of being pushed to hard, being tired of talking or in the worst case abusing ones power to silence critics. I unterstand it, but as Malachy said, it should have happened earlier. 

The lesson i draw from all this is once again, that people obviously are often unable to find a healthy way of interpersonal communication in social media or the Internet in general. Lack of facial expression and gestures leads to misunderstandings, but instead of asking further, assumptions are made leading to even more mistaken interpretations. 

So yes I understand the move, it's just sad it has come so far. 

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this game will live or die based on its ability to balance historical accuracy with fun and playability- we have been close so many times to making this a great game and somehow always manage to over-correct and take a step back. Maybe listening to the vocal minority led us down the wrong path- who knows.  If there would have been small changes over time it would have been better-- but Devs were always insistent on trying something completely different.  i will continue to support this game and play until something better comes along (it will).  Will this  ever be released or is this a gaming experiment to make ultimate admirals  a better game? Only time will tell-

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2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

The irony of irony happened to me today. My comment on sids YouTube video were deleted apparently. I called him a retard to be fair but I did give him good reasons. You guys know I always justify calling someone a retard. I'll need to look into the matter a bit since I don't know how YouTube deals with toxicity. Comment is gone for sure

The irony :).

For many censorship is when they are censored. When they ban themselves it is free speech (because its their platform).
They only complain about censorship when it is about them, but then censor you the second you post something they don't like, or does not fit their agenda. 


I am also sure everyone who complained about unfair removals of messages here  WONT complain about unfair removal of hachi content on that channel. 

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1 hour ago, Palatinose said:

Don't get me wrong I don't think it's a bad idea per se. Though the picture it creates is not too positive. Fighting heated up communications with a "comm stop" creates the feeling of being pushed to hard, being tired of talking or in the worst case abusing ones power to silence critics. I unterstand it, but as Malachy said, it should have happened earlier. 

The lesson i draw from all this is once again, that people obviously are often unable to find a healthy way of interpersonal communication in social media or the Internet in general. Lack of facial expression and gestures leads to misunderstandings, but instead of asking further, assumptions are made leading to even more mistaken interpretations. 

So yes I understand the move, it's just sad it has come so far. 

It will get worse. Polarization will continue and we will see the total removal of free speech from the internet in the next 10-15 years. It will spread from the east (china, singapore) and when western governments realize that they cant control the masses if masses can speak on social media to millions of other people they will start removing all dissent and opposition from social media. Its already starting.

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15 hours ago, manuva85 said:

That family sounds a lot like a cult, If you are proffesional you take in all feedback. It is literally your job. You should not try to act as in siege mentality as if there is "right" and "wrong" side ..

But there IS a right and wrong side usually. Developer says the wrong thing he is wrong. Tester posts something bad or useless - he is wrong.
Demands for professionalism mostly come from people who never show any professionalism themselves. You know those people,  they are usually very rude to waiters or cleaners, and get very upset when they rightfully pushed back. This forum must be a friendly respectful place. Its in the rules. You accepted them when registered. 
 

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Sadly. Conclusions are not correct.
Producers who ignore the power of social networks will never succeed.

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2 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Sadly. Conclusions are not correct.
Producers who ignore the power of social networks will never succeed.

We use them widely for advertising and will continue using them. 
It is just unstructured direct contact with public is getting  removed, as it gives too much options for misunderstanding, rage or false hopes.

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@HachiRoku

That’s a real missed opportunity. Never call someone a RETARD ever. He has every right to take your comment down Snowflake or not. Next time call him an Idiot or something smarter...

I can’t post on his YouTube now... saying Hey why the double standard and go on... taking down Hachi’s criticism would have been a great post.

 

@admin thought you’d stopped interacting?

This is whole thing as nothing to do with the original issue. It was an escalation in players wanting to be heard, or felt like they were being ignored. Now when Mrs. nChance does this same thing you can guess how she reacts... I need to manage her expectations...

 

Just my view, wanting to be heard...

 

Norfolk.

 

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4 minutes ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 

@admin thought you’d stopped interacting?

This is whole thing as nothing to do with the original issue. It was an escalation in players wanting to be heard, or felt like they were being ignored. Now when Mrs. nChance does this same thing you can guess how she reacts... I need to manage her expectations...

 

Final days
You do not have reasons to complain I think ;)

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

We use them widely for advertising and will continue using them. 
It is just unstructured direct contact with public is getting completely removed. 

When you last watch your social accounts?

https://twitter.com/navalaction Last post 21 Jan 2019

https://vk.com/naval_action Last post 25 Jan 2019

You can say thank @Banished Privateer  for the free lesson. One video and game rating went down.

Look what YouTube gives to the "Naval Action" request. In first row i see about Dirty Devs. Even DuckDuckGo said about this.

Edited by qw569
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9 hours ago, Borch said:

Why bother, if you're clearly so upset with people feedback? Official patch notes thread is locked. No new thread made. RoE thread locked. DLC ships locked. Why would you need liaisons to pass the information back and forth then? Besides, from what I remember you had plenty of mods in the past that resigned from that position after disagreement with you. You also had a plan of involving mods themselves more into your future plans and such. From what I remember this idea was shortlived and nowdays mods doesn't know more than common players.

So, I'm asking again, how is liaisons going to be different from what we already had? With everything locked you may as well just turn the light off.

perfect example of why there is no point to talk to some members of the community

  • We talk to mods daily there is a live channel.  We also talk to a couple active pvp players daily (also live).
  • We talk to streamers (and streamers help to fix bugs a lot as it is immediately available on video)
  • We also talk to couple of large clans on the weekly basis, and some features changed because of their feedback (thanks you know who).

When stating the opposite Borch tries the role of the recently removed posters (who were removed for just throwing irrelevant info around). 
For example by saying that everything is locked
Trading topic is open. Combat feedback topic is open. We are interested in this feedback. 
Topics we are not interested in anymore are locked. In fact almost all topics are not locked but yet everything is locked for you!

@Borch Whats the point for this clear exaggeration, where is your professionalism as a tester?
You misrepresent on purpose? Whats your purpose

You are the reason for this topic.

Why should I keep you here if your posts  show that you are clearly upset and angry or negative and that statements you make are MADE UP, to incite more rage and negativity with others. Even if you think they are are not made up they are assumed as 100% negative from the start - you do not even ask questions first.

There is 0 value in your post. (there is actually a negative value in your posts as someone might read you and think your misrepresentations are true like thinking everything is truly locked. 

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29 minutes ago, qw569 said:

When you last watch your social accounts?

https://twitter.com/navalaction Last post 21 Jan 2019

https://vk.com/naval_action Last post 25 Jan 2019

You can say thank @Banished Privateer  for the free lesson. One video and game rating went down.

Look what YouTube gives to the "Naval Action" request. In first row i see about Dirty Devs. Even DuckDuckGo said about this.

It's a nature of the modern world. Fake news spread faster.
Thats why the creator of the video deliberately chose wrong info (so he can get more comments)
Ship Ratings system was mentioned incorrectly (ON PURPOSE) and is half of the comments
Lie about us faking all the comments on steam forums also caused comments

Comments = youtube pushes you higher for views.
 

In terms of other social networks we use what is working for us. Your favorite social networks might not be the best for selling certain type of games. We cant be everywhere and have to prioritize now.

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3 hours ago, Palatinose said:

The lesson i draw from all this is once again, that people obviously are often unable to find a healthy way of interpersonal communication in social media or the Internet in general. Lack of facial expression and gestures leads to misunderstandings, but instead of asking further, assumptions are made leading to even more mistaken interpretations.

This also appears in direct communication. You're right though, this is the issue.

In last 2 years I had a chance to cooperate with some great people, who have really interesting companies and are quite aware of value of a good communication. They're busy though. It's amazing how many completely random and sometimes absurd miscomunications happen when you factor in even lack of time, not to mention remote communication. In general we don't listen to others with focus, we first think about what we want to say. Listening to others, identifying their exact fears and goals, adressing them first,  and then stating what you want to say, gives you a really great power of making things happen. It's amazing how we underrate it in general. It's of course completely different in RL and in internet, but basic rules are similar. It's harder than we think :)

 

1 hour ago, admin said:

It will get worse. Polarization will continue and we will see the total removal of free speech from the internet in the next 10-15 years.

This is a very subjective remark. It's interesting, and of course you have a right to state this. I just point it out, as it makes you go into a discussion with a community :) 

On topic though, I'm an optimist here. In my opinion there are two issues. First is about quality of information, not quantity. A fool and a sage have the same weight of their speech now. They can both be free to speak, as long as it's clear who is who. We're slowly coming up with solutions for this. The second issue is that communication (and views that it shapes) is driven by emotions, rather than reality. We're not there yet, but I'm convinced we will be :) Of course solutions can take away some of our freedoms, but I don't think it needs to be anywhere close to Great Firewall of China.


(wow, both of those posts are waay off-topic, even if interesting :) )

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19 minutes ago, admin said:

@Borch Whats the point for this clear exaggeration, where is your professionalism as a tester?
You misrepresent on purpose? Whats your purpose

You are the reason for this topic.

Why should I keep you here if your posts  show that you are clearly upset and angry or negative and that statements you make are MADE UP, to incite more rage and negativity with others. Even if you think they are are not made up they are assumed as 100% negative from the start - you do not even ask questions first.

There is 0 value in your post. (there is actually a negative value in your posts as someone might read you and think your misrepresentations are true like thinking everything is truly locked. 

Here we go again....

Can you behave professional yourself by keeping your promise to not engage in direct discussions with users please?

Censorship only reflects your desire and need to rule over us because of your lack of confidence in yourself, no matter how misguided you are about yourself.

If you are so sure about what is lie and what is true, who is right and who is wrong why bother with what others see? Do you need to monitor everything because of "normal" people like us can't understand and will be misdirected? Do you think that we need your guidance? Your censorship only serves to insult your community.

If you dare to challenge any idea or lie come with a better idea or with truth. Nobody is holding you from doing that. If you don't trust your audience capability to "understand" keep deleting and banning.

"The first condition of progress is the removal of censorship" George Bernard Shaw

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