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Hello captains In terms of this post by @EliteDelta   Here is the thing.  I think public relations is not the source of problems, as there is too many definitions and goals of this ter

thx to all the people that go boom everytime theres a dev post. by now we all know the game will never be good enough for those people. i just wish they would finally go away. they are a source of fru

It’s just a shame some people never learned the difference between: “Hey Admin, I don’t like “X” mechanic. Here’s why.....” and: ”This game is trash. I can code better than these clowns

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15 hours ago, manuva85 said:

That family sounds a lot like a cult, If you are proffesional you take in all feedback. It is literally your job. You should not try to act as in siege mentality as if there is "right" and "wrong" side ..

But there IS a right and wrong side usually. Developer says the wrong thing he is wrong. Tester posts something bad or useless - he is wrong.
Demands for professionalism mostly come from people who never show any professionalism themselves. You know those people,  they are usually very rude to waiters or cleaners, and get very upset when they rightfully pushed back. This forum must be a friendly respectful place. Its in the rules. You accepted them when registered. 
 

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2 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Sadly. Conclusions are not correct.
Producers who ignore the power of social networks will never succeed.

We use them widely for advertising and will continue using them. 
It is just unstructured direct contact with public is getting  removed, as it gives too much options for misunderstanding, rage or false hopes.

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@HachiRoku

That’s a real missed opportunity. Never call someone a RETARD ever. He has every right to take your comment down Snowflake or not. Next time call him an Idiot or something smarter...

I can’t post on his YouTube now... saying Hey why the double standard and go on... taking down Hachi’s criticism would have been a great post.

 

@admin thought you’d stopped interacting?

This is whole thing as nothing to do with the original issue. It was an escalation in players wanting to be heard, or felt like they were being ignored. Now when Mrs. nChance does this same thing you can guess how she reacts... I need to manage her expectations...

 

Just my view, wanting to be heard...

 

Norfolk.

 

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4 minutes ago, Norfolk nChance said:

 

@admin thought you’d stopped interacting?

This is whole thing as nothing to do with the original issue. It was an escalation in players wanting to be heard, or felt like they were being ignored. Now when Mrs. nChance does this same thing you can guess how she reacts... I need to manage her expectations...

 

Final days
You do not have reasons to complain I think ;)

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

We use them widely for advertising and will continue using them. 
It is just unstructured direct contact with public is getting completely removed. 

When you last watch your social accounts?

https://twitter.com/navalaction Last post 21 Jan 2019

https://vk.com/naval_action Last post 25 Jan 2019

You can say thank @Banished Privateer  for the free lesson. One video and game rating went down.

Look what YouTube gives to the "Naval Action" request. In first row i see about Dirty Devs. Even DuckDuckGo said about this.

Edited by qw569
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9 hours ago, Borch said:

Why bother, if you're clearly so upset with people feedback? Official patch notes thread is locked. No new thread made. RoE thread locked. DLC ships locked. Why would you need liaisons to pass the information back and forth then? Besides, from what I remember you had plenty of mods in the past that resigned from that position after disagreement with you. You also had a plan of involving mods themselves more into your future plans and such. From what I remember this idea was shortlived and nowdays mods doesn't know more than common players.

So, I'm asking again, how is liaisons going to be different from what we already had? With everything locked you may as well just turn the light off.

perfect example of why there is no point to talk to some members of the community

  • We talk to mods daily there is a live channel.  We also talk to a couple active pvp players daily (also live).
  • We talk to streamers (and streamers help to fix bugs a lot as it is immediately available on video)
  • We also talk to couple of large clans on the weekly basis, and some features changed because of their feedback (thanks you know who).

When stating the opposite Borch tries the role of the recently removed posters (who were removed for just throwing irrelevant info around). 
For example by saying that everything is locked
Trading topic is open. Combat feedback topic is open. We are interested in this feedback. 
Topics we are not interested in anymore are locked. In fact almost all topics are not locked but yet everything is locked for you!

@Borch Whats the point for this clear exaggeration, where is your professionalism as a tester?
You misrepresent on purpose? Whats your purpose

You are the reason for this topic.

Why should I keep you here if your posts  show that you are clearly upset and angry or negative and that statements you make are MADE UP, to incite more rage and negativity with others. Even if you think they are are not made up they are assumed as 100% negative from the start - you do not even ask questions first.

There is 0 value in your post. (there is actually a negative value in your posts as someone might read you and think your misrepresentations are true like thinking everything is truly locked. 

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29 minutes ago, qw569 said:

When you last watch your social accounts?

https://twitter.com/navalaction Last post 21 Jan 2019

https://vk.com/naval_action Last post 25 Jan 2019

You can say thank @Banished Privateer  for the free lesson. One video and game rating went down.

Look what YouTube gives to the "Naval Action" request. In first row i see about Dirty Devs. Even DuckDuckGo said about this.

It's a nature of the modern world. Fake news spread faster.
Thats why the creator of the video deliberately chose wrong info (so he can get more comments)
Ship Ratings system was mentioned incorrectly (ON PURPOSE) and is half of the comments
Lie about us faking all the comments on steam forums also caused comments

Comments = youtube pushes you higher for views.
 

In terms of other social networks we use what is working for us. Your favorite social networks might not be the best for selling certain type of games. We cant be everywhere and have to prioritize now.

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3 hours ago, Palatinose said:

The lesson i draw from all this is once again, that people obviously are often unable to find a healthy way of interpersonal communication in social media or the Internet in general. Lack of facial expression and gestures leads to misunderstandings, but instead of asking further, assumptions are made leading to even more mistaken interpretations.

This also appears in direct communication. You're right though, this is the issue.

In last 2 years I had a chance to cooperate with some great people, who have really interesting companies and are quite aware of value of a good communication. They're busy though. It's amazing how many completely random and sometimes absurd miscomunications happen when you factor in even lack of time, not to mention remote communication. In general we don't listen to others with focus, we first think about what we want to say. Listening to others, identifying their exact fears and goals, adressing them first,  and then stating what you want to say, gives you a really great power of making things happen. It's amazing how we underrate it in general. It's of course completely different in RL and in internet, but basic rules are similar. It's harder than we think :)

 

1 hour ago, admin said:

It will get worse. Polarization will continue and we will see the total removal of free speech from the internet in the next 10-15 years.

This is a very subjective remark. It's interesting, and of course you have a right to state this. I just point it out, as it makes you go into a discussion with a community :) 

On topic though, I'm an optimist here. In my opinion there are two issues. First is about quality of information, not quantity. A fool and a sage have the same weight of their speech now. They can both be free to speak, as long as it's clear who is who. We're slowly coming up with solutions for this. The second issue is that communication (and views that it shapes) is driven by emotions, rather than reality. We're not there yet, but I'm convinced we will be :) Of course solutions can take away some of our freedoms, but I don't think it needs to be anywhere close to Great Firewall of China.


(wow, both of those posts are waay off-topic, even if interesting :) )

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19 minutes ago, admin said:

@Borch Whats the point for this clear exaggeration, where is your professionalism as a tester?
You misrepresent on purpose? Whats your purpose

You are the reason for this topic.

Why should I keep you here if your posts  show that you are clearly upset and angry or negative and that statements you make are MADE UP, to incite more rage and negativity with others. Even if you think they are are not made up they are assumed as 100% negative from the start - you do not even ask questions first.

There is 0 value in your post. (there is actually a negative value in your posts as someone might read you and think your misrepresentations are true like thinking everything is truly locked. 

Here we go again....

Can you behave professional yourself by keeping your promise to not engage in direct discussions with users please?

Censorship only reflects your desire and need to rule over us because of your lack of confidence in yourself, no matter how misguided you are about yourself.

If you are so sure about what is lie and what is true, who is right and who is wrong why bother with what others see? Do you need to monitor everything because of "normal" people like us can't understand and will be misdirected? Do you think that we need your guidance? Your censorship only serves to insult your community.

If you dare to challenge any idea or lie come with a better idea or with truth. Nobody is holding you from doing that. If you don't trust your audience capability to "understand" keep deleting and banning.

"The first condition of progress is the removal of censorship" George Bernard Shaw

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51 minutes ago, admin said:

Whats the point for this clear exaggeration, where is your professionalism as a tester?

I think the constraint we have is that testers are not professionals :) On this forum, only you are. Maybe everything what needed to be said was said in this thread already.

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2 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

 

"The first condition of progress is the removal of censorship" George Bernard Shaw

That private companies on their forums decide about content and discussion and rules are NOT censorship.

Freedom of speech does not mean that i have the right to enter your house and sit at your dinnertable and recite the collected works of Kim Il Sung, or anything else. The freedom of private persons and companies to decide what they do not want to listen to in their domains is also a part of freedom of speech.

Thus what happens in this forum can never be censorship.

Censorship is when states tries to strangle the debate.

A forum for beekeepers has every right to throw out people that are unpolite, or that perhaps hates bees, for example.

To exaggerate and talk about censorship helps noone. And if you have valid critizism you can be sure that the devs wont listen to you if you exaggerate like that.

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25 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

This is literally just trying to get parting shots in.  How you cannot see this as adding to the problem is beyond me.

Some dont see it..

Edited by Meraun
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1 hour ago, Norfolk nChance said:

That’s a real missed opportunity. Never call someone a RETARD ever. He has every right to take your comment down Snowflake or not. Next time call him an Idiot or something smarter...

I can’t post on his YouTube now... saying Hey why the double standard and go on... taking down Hachi’s criticism would have been a great post

I want to make this clear. My oppinion on the dlc ships is very clear. There is a thread of mine that is not locked or anything that calls the concept around them P2W. I am not defending them in any way nor am I a defender of the devs. I am a bit mad about the roe with them but I need to be objective and fair. A successful youtuber that makes a series about bad devs that clearly has not researched the subject and just repeats the nonsense BP said is a bastard. He also has no idea what steam means by promises. The devs have delivered more than was promised. There is no debate about that. One must be a very stupid individual to go on to a development forum and accuse them of violation of steam rules without a piece of evidence. Retard is objectively a correct term to use there in my opinion.

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1. Buys product for 'when it is released' during early access which grants access to development builds and 'not released' product.

2. Confuses privilege of accessing development builds with 'I am now a tester and can ORDER the devs what game to design'

3. Breaks every rule of fair and educated communication with other users and company employees and volunteers.

4. Turns from fan into a hater.

- has nothing to do with good or bad communication. this happens a lot -

So before anything you should be honest with yourselves and see where you forgot the essentials:

- not a designer. not a GL developer. not anything NA related except that you bought the game and have access to forums and early builds.

Respect and honest behavior walk hand in hand.

-

Communication is a issue with many indie development houses.

Being a staunch follower of about 10 products (as today) in the same vein as NA early access and in development for more than 4 years, i see the exact same.

More time dedicated to their development and less to 'blogs, twitter posts, facebook updates' but they never miss the essential  - forum/platform updates.

Funny thing is that many indies rely on prospect gamers to be the ones being actively searching for news and promoting the game.

One of them is actually and might win a bafta. Due to the game design and players passing the word and showing the quality.

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25 minutes ago, vazco said:

Whats the point for this clear exaggeration, where is your professionalism as a tester?

 

25 minutes ago, vazco said:

I think the constraint we have is that testers are not professionals :) On this forum, only you are.

This is one of the problems with this forum.  Many of us key in on a specific word (professionalism) and see a different context than what was intended.  Then it is used as a club to prove a point.  In a multi-cultural and multi-language forum, this does nothing positive and causes all sorts of anger. 

 

Now if I were taking parting shots at @admin, I would simply open up the subject that Ukraine may find itself electing a comedian into their government.....but that would be wrong...

Edited by Angus MacDuff
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18 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

This is literally just trying to get parting shots in.  How you cannot see this as adding to the problem is beyond me.

It is not adding to the problem, on contrary shows it. Everything is relative.

Besides, criticizing may come only for your supporters. No enemy will waste their time to put a critic, valid or not.

Edited by Barbarosa
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49 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

 

This is one of the problems with this forum.  Many of us key in on a specific word (professionalism) and see a different context than what was intended.  Then it is used as a club to prove a point.  In a multi-cultural and multi-language forum, this does nothing positive and causes all sorts of anger. 

 

Now if I were taking parting shots at @admin, I would simply open up the subject that Ukraine may find itself electing a comedian into their government.....but that would be wrong...

Good.  There should be, or never have been, someone with the job description of “politician”....

I’ll take someone who has actually learned a trade/occupation over someone who lives via the public teat any day of the week 

You don’t have to be of the “political class” to be a good politician.  

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to be fair if mods / devs dont wnt to get involved in forum arguments ...all I realy want from DEVS is a information on what is changing and when ..post changes and times in a locked thread ... let us squabble about content amongst ourselves

but on the reverse side the devs cannot complain about reviews on steam if they dont want to interact.  I havent posted a negative review on steam about changes  becuse you can vent on the forum

 

 

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Theme of this thread is Communication.

Clear, honest and acceptable forms of Communication in the Forum.

Try to keep the theme as central piece. Discuss the theme, not the persons.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Barbarosa said:

"The first condition of progress is the removal of censorship" George Bernard Shaw

No passion in the world is equal to the passion to alter someone else’s draft.”  HG wells

You’ll be damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.”   Eleanor Roosevelt

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3 hours ago, admin said:

Demands for professionalism mostly come from people who never show any professionalism themselves. You know those people,  they are usually very rude to waiters or cleaners, and get very upset when they rightfully pushed back.

Wow... I am speechless.

After reading your reactions and responses I believe you have taken the right decision by choosing to stop with the comm part as it is now. Good luck with the final months and let us all hope for a smooth and successful release.

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