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I’d like @admin to be honest with us, what does he see for the future of NA? Where’s our direction now? Is the dlc a result of needed funds for future development? 3 years + of development since I began playing and I don’t have the slightest idea

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Hello captains In terms of this post by @EliteDelta   Here is the thing.  I think public relations is not the source of problems, as there is too many definitions and goals of this ter

thx to all the people that go boom everytime theres a dev post. by now we all know the game will never be good enough for those people. i just wish they would finally go away. they are a source of fru

It’s just a shame some people never learned the difference between: “Hey Admin, I don’t like “X” mechanic. Here’s why.....” and: ”This game is trash. I can code better than these clowns

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i also feel that alot of great suggestions and feedbacks has just been passed through where alot of players have been positive to the suggestion without a comment from you @admin , just a "noted" would maybe be enough so people get seen that whatever we type is getting noticed. Just my personal thoughts on some of the frustrations :)

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1 hour ago, Koveras said:

the devs has banned the 'nay-sayers'

Not ever was a 'nay-sayer' banned, it takes A LOT more than disagreeing to finally get a forum ban.

1 hour ago, Socialism said:

Others can’t even post in the meme thread.

That only depends on what they're trying to post.

1 hour ago, Socialism said:

So this will prolly get deleted

If you do a search for 'deleted' you'll find many fully visible posts that contain that weird statement.

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SHUNT; ...there is nothing worse than a customer who feels they are been ignored or not wanted ...

There must be 4000+ players in the 100 hour to 200 hour user base that are that customer. Why did they quit? Will they come back, maybe... These players are the player base after a launch. They bought a game, based upon a theme that interested them. This base may put another 20-30 hours in AFTER a launch.

I had 3000+ hours, I have no more time until this is a game again.

If they find themselves staring at a sailing screen saver or running for their lives and sinking at a high rate, they log and never come back.

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3 minutes ago, Routan said:

Well if they don’t think it longer has any value for them, Well shut it down and use time on programing. 

But to say it is the nay ppl that is the reason, honnestly I don’t even know how to respond to it. One thing do come in mind.

               It take two to tango

One 'word'.

- once "you" go outside of the game discussion and attack the devs and other users, that means you are ACTIVELY trying to hurt the game.

See the difference "my dude" ? 

As Jodgi said, absolutely no one has ever been disciplined for game discussion.

 

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3 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

hard to talk about it since it's against forum rules to talk about it.

In public, yes. There are other options for those who wish to resolve misunderstandings.

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@admin

 

"You can please all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot please all the people all the time."

 

 Perhaps a way to communicate with community would be to assign  3-4 people ingame who are more level/cool headed and get them to feed back critique/concerns to yourselves.  Also make players chosen keep secret is what they doing as would attract people who try and change what the people picked will say.

 

 

 Now i won't defend everything you have said/done, but on the flipside at times players have been verging on toxic if not wholeheartedly so in trying to defend their viewpoints.  I guess is amount of time we spend in game as well as a genuine care for game to be "perfect" and successful. People should remember though that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" , and not all their personal preferences will apply to everyone;  that is true of everyone involved (players/devs/me).

 Issue is i think that people are taking their own view as the only valid one often in things i been reading/seeing which of course is not correct,  best thing for a players gameplay style may not be best thing for game overall.

 

In short my feeling is that most people here (99%) care for game, as is true of yourself (has been years of work).  Problem is that with care/love comes emotion, when things not going way they think they should comes the responses,  which some make a personal affront. 

 

Don't take it all personal Admin and players alike,  we all care about game,  we all can become entrenched in narrow tunnel vision, and finally we all can be assholes ;) .

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dibbler
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You have received lots of good feedback from testers over the years and you have made decisions. It's up to you to take the feedback you need to create the game you want. I enjoyed testing and giving feedback. It seems you have made up your mind how the final game should look like. That's good and I am looking forward to the final wipe and release. Maybe it's time to change this forum. It seems the necessary things are said and the only thing that might increase will not be the quality of the feedback you get but the toxicity of feedback of those who have the feeling that their ideas where not considered.

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22 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

When you get banned you lose all access to all communication channels (no more mp)

You don’t even get a reason or explanation.  Just “banned”.  Some with zero moderation hits prior like yourself.  

Edited by Socialism
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I feel my issue with the communication is that it seems random. sometimes we hear a good bit and that's great, other times apparently the only way to hear about changes or suggestions is is from some streamer's chat window, and even more still sometimes there seems to be absolutely 0 communication.

My biggest gripe is this:

We have had multiple feedback threads and posts and it seems many good suggestions, both ones i agree and disagree with just go "unnoticed."

If the decision is that we just shut off all communication and you just make the game the way you think you want it, fine. You can do that...but I think it's entirely the wrong direction. It becomes even more important to regularly create topics of exactly what you're doing and what you plan to do when misinformation gets spread. When players get upset it becomes even more important to address the issues.

Look, I dislike some changes your doing in this game, I also like some changes too, BUT what continues to be a pressing point of my concern is that it seems you mention a change that will happen that gets buried in a forum thread.

I'd LOVE a Topic created by the @admin every week or 2 weeks just giving the players an update on what you're doing, what's finished. Like a simple "blog-post" almost. heck, some people here seem to just 'oogle' over a screenshot.

For now, we have random communication :(.

Edited by Teutonic
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According to an old saying there usually is a silent majority, mostly more conservative. To both ends of the spectrum there usually is also a more radical and more noisy crowd. Open communication means to deal especially with these tips of the range. 

There is three basic points to consider for @admin imo:

1) do you believe to have created a better product thanks to communities feedback or not?

2) do you believe the consequences of open communication are a reason to sell more or less copies of your product?

3) are the ressources you put into open communication (nerves, time,...- as non-PR person it's not primary your job) worth it?

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Dear @admin,

Please don't stop the open communication. It's a side of the development of this game that makes it special and interesting. True, the experiment isn't for everybody. Your word is read by some as law and by others as suggestion/ideas. In a game in this development state things can change. So is the xp we gathered testing this game not holy. We got to play this game for 3+ years and enjoy it (at least most of the time). I think one of the main strengths is the open communication you have had with the community. Some can handle that, some don't. Some good improvements came from it, some didn't work out. In the end it is your game, not ours. It is logical that you make the decisions and that will always piss somebody off, no matter how open your communication lines are with the community.

So again, please keep the lines open, and enrich the forum with your views and feedback, don't lock the door of the development bunker. I don't have the time to really play at this point, but when I do I will add many more hours to the 2500+ hours of fun I've already had in this game. And your involvement in the community in my eyes has always been gold in my opinion.

Edited by Kloothommel
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I don't think closing the forum is the way to go ...

We can ignore forumusers we don't like (the ones constantly asking the same (childish?) questions/remarks, the ones that obviously never make a comment to serve the development of the game but rather want things to go their way only, etc, etc, etc)(like some have already said ... they are very recognizable (i have 4 people on 'ignore', if they make a good post, that post will get picked up by somebody else (atleast it saves me from 90% of their rambling and i don't get aggravated by their shortsightedness (to use a polite word)).

Offcourse some posters i don't really like ... meaning that i don't like what they say (and or keep repeating at nauseum the only reason i could put you on ignore btw)), but it does not mean that they don't have a valid point to make (some actually have succeeded in changing my mind on certain aspects ... I would say that is a good thing (why would you want to lose that? tunnelvision is never a good thing to have)).

Like some have already suggested, a smaller group could collect the 'good' stuff for the devs, so they have more time to program and lose less time reading crap/spam/uninformed opinions (I actually thought this already existed? Makes sense to not advertise such a 'group' though (considering some ego's). Perhaps the amount of likes on certain posts could be an indicator to gauge quality.

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

I'd LOVE a Topic created by the @admin every week or 2 weeks just giving the players an update on what you're doing, what's finished. Like a simple "blog-post" almost. heck, some people here seem to just 'oogle' over a screenshot.

For now, we have random communication :(.

Although I am more hopeful and positive than Teutonic is in his post, I do agree that updates on progress and where things stand on a more weekly like basis would go a long way. I do not care if it is an open thread either. Just to visually seeing work being down goes a long way.

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Summarizing:

- you have been keeping testers in this Alpha phase for almost three years telling them that they would have kept xp, craft xp, ship knowledge and books 

- you are ending the testing phase by shaping out the final game main features for an imminent launch (so you do not need a lot of feeback anymore)

so you

- suddenly change your ideas about wipe

- mass perma-ban a lot of (critic, toxic and whatnot) testers from forum

-  close any public communication with testers on this forum.

My humble guess is that even a lot of the testers that were not angy before, may become quite angry (or at least deluded) now.

So if PR are not a concern for you, that's fine of course. Otherwise, think it over a bit more. The last thing this game needs at launch is a shit bomb on steam.

Anyway: your game, your forum, your choice, your consequences.

Have a nice day folks and good luck!

Edited by toblerone
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9 minutes ago, toblerone said:

 

so you

- suddenly change your ideas about wipe

- mass perma-ban a lot of (critic, toxic and whatnot) testers from forum

-  close any public communication with testers on this forum.

My humble guess is that even a lot of the testers that were not angy before, may become quite angry (or at least deluded) now.

So if PR are not a concern for you, that's fine of course. Otherwise, think it over a bit more. The last thing this game needs at launch is a shit bomb on steam.

 

It is coincidence I think that this discussion happens when a few videos come up with some harsh criticism and both misinformation and frankly angry players. Some of these angry players are also incredibly long-time veterans who frankly love this game even with all it's faults.

So the response we should expect when harsh criticism starts is to shut down all communications now? it's incredibly counter-intuitive and closed-minded and I am worried that we may not get any communication anymore because we seem to be worried about "players not liking the game."

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32 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

It is coincidence I think that this discussion happens when a few videos come up with some harsh criticism and both misinformation and frankly angry players. Some of these angry players are also incredibly long-time veterans who frankly love this game even with all it's faults.

So the response we should expect when harsh criticism starts is to shut down all communications now? it's incredibly counter-intuitive and closed-minded and I am worried that we may not get any communication anymore because we seem to be worried about "players not liking the game."

 

 With all respect although I understand players forum banned being angry,  I do think the response  with review bombing, vids etc was somewhat an over reaction to what was at the start should imo have been a temp forum  (cool off) ban.

 I don't think is all one sided by any means, but to actively start efforts/campaign to effectively destroy the game outside forum is beyond my understanding and would i think deserve a total ban from game/forum.

 I don't think either side of this handled situation well.

 Perfect solution would be for all sides to back down off their  positions and discuss way forward  to be constructive/improve situation, but i fear has gone to far now to happen (review bombs, vids etc) as has been brutal.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Koveras said:

I know for a fact that nay-sayers has been banned indiscrimanately and most likely due to the foul mood of devs. Ofc those 'nay-sayers' isn't here to argue since they stopped paying attention to, or simply cannot access, the forums. Ofc that same premis makes this thread a bit of a paradox since @admin wants to discuss forum communications but is unable to do so with the very ppl that is aggrieved by forum communications since they've been banned, making this entire thread more or less a futile endeavor.

When speaking of "facts" it is always best to have exact references with pertinent resources. IMO, and that of quite a few others, there is a difference between critical and hostile feedback. Hostilities are not welcome and completely unnecessary...especially in a game...a place where people of all nationalities and cultures can come to have fun together in harmony...even if our political leaders are being assholes to each other.

16 minutes ago, Routan said:

From my reply you get that back to me?

First I wrote that if they didnt get good enough feedback, I thought it would be better to spend there time on developing the game. They are as they themself said a small team(2 men).  Wasent that also what admin hinted at. They could use there time better, and I agree. When they only have limited ressources, they should ofc use them as they see best. You disagree with that?

the Second was two to tango. Hardly see you can disagree with that. Both side have a part to play,  so the communication is good. I have writtin nothing on bans in my statement. Nothing at all.

But I read the op as it was because the negative feedback, they was considering to close it down, and that, to me atleast make no sence. Should a test forum not be so ppl can tell exactly how they feel the changes affect them?

If it were my EA game, roles would be:

  • admin/devs post updates/patch notes and create forum threads for different aspects of new update/patch
  • players respond with bugs and likes/dislikes...being respectful to devs and other players (not always seen on this forum)
  • mods moderate responses keeping things clean
  • admins/devs review responses, integrate what they decide is best for the game and then repeat the above

Much how these devs have done, but they have often gone the extra mile to respond to many individual posts and try to integrate player wish lists.

How nearly every other game does???

  • devs post updates/patch notes
  • players report bugs and likes/dislikes
  • devs discard everything except bugs
  • fix bugs, maybe implement suggestions and repeat

"Should a test forum not be so ppl can tell exactly how they feel the changes affect them?" Of course, but again there is away to say things and there is a way not to say things...many people agree with this.

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There is nothing worse to surround yourself with applauders when taking critical desicions.

If you want to "fix" something, angry people are great asset. None of them are natural angry born abominations.

Besides it will be injustice to call people criticizing "angry people". I can say people can't tolerate them seem more angry to me.

If they are not your target audience anymore, simply inform them.

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5 hours ago, Ligatorswe said:

Surveys are a good thing. The Devs used to do surveys, like "pick a ship we will develop". Time to do that again perhaps?

I said it many times in the past they need to do in game surveys cause most of the players never get on the forums. You want the best feed back than ask in game.  Just have a pop up when they log in and ask a few questions and be done with it.

 

There is a little saying I been hearing a lot in debates between certain political groups which goes something like this.  "I don't care about what hurts your feelings.  What I care about are the facts and your feelings are no fact."   We need to remember this when debating on here about game mechanics and also remember not all of us are native speakers so there is a very big chance of lost in translations when talking with one another.  I'm just a stubborn former Navy and Oilfield hand so I tend to be very blunt and to the point.  It's gotten me in trouble a few times with the devs when I don't think I deserved it, but even other times I had to keep myself in check so not to get any one butt hurt.  Keep the discussions to facts and not your feelings and things will go a lot more smoothly.

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41 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I said it many times in the past they need to do in game surveys cause most of the players never get on the forums. You want the best feed back than ask in game.  Just have a pop up when they log in and ask a few questions and be done with it.

 

There is a little saying I been hearing a lot in debates between certain political groups which goes something like this.  "I don't care about what hurts your feelings.  What I care about are the facts and your feelings are no fact."   We need to remember this when debating on here about game mechanics and also remember not all of us are native speakers so there is a very big chance of lost in translations when talking with one another.  I'm just a stubborn former Navy and Oilfield hand so I tend to be very blunt and to the point.  It's gotten me in trouble a few times with the devs when I don't think I deserved it, but even other times I had to keep myself in check so not to get any one butt hurt.  Keep the discussions to facts and not your feelings and things will go a lot more smoothly.

What really gets me is players who don't use these forums or on steam have ZERO idea things have changed.  I sank a player on the US coast the other day who couldn't figure out why I tagged him in the reinforcement zone.  He had zero knowledge that things had changed.  Most games will have a little window when you log in displaying a summary of the changes or a list of the patch notes.  None here.  That player was pissed and said he was quitting.  I wonder how many similar situations have happened and could easily been avoided with better communication.  A simple poll or survey in game would alleviate quite a bit of crossed wires and give actual feedback not biased on the forums.    

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4 minutes ago, Socialism said:

What really gets me is players who don't use these forums or on steam have ZERO idea things have changed.  I sank a player on the US coast the other day who couldn't figure out why I tagged him in the reinforcement zone.  He had zero knowledge that things had changed.  Most games will have a little window when you log in displaying a summary of the changes or a list of the patch notes.  None here.  That player was pissed and said he was quitting.  I wonder how many similar situations have happened and could easily been avoided with better communication.  A simple poll or survey in game would alleviate quite a bit of crossed wires and give actual feedback not biased on the forums.    

Patch notes should always be posted on the log in screen when they happen.  The other day when they dropped the R zones most of the guys had no clue and was just easy for the pickings.  This is even active players.  We are constantly posting them in chat and on discord for folks to read.  9 times out of 10 we have to just tell them in TS cause they don't want to go look them up.  Notice could give those players a chance to move to Peace server and not just out right quite the game.   I swear they have a stupid recruitment model for this game.  Thinking they can just replace any lost players.   It doesn't work like that in the real world.

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They have a red Announcement button. Perhaps people should get used to clicking that? But yes, I could see a pop up at log in that states, "Since your last log in, these things have changed:  ...."

Edited by van der Decken
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