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Meraun

Limit DLC Ships to common Woods

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In light of recent Discussion about the 4th Rate DLC, why no limit the DLC ships to certain Woods? Make them Oak/Fir as Redeemable and maybe as a permanent Craftingpermit for all Woodtypes?

And Oak/Oak Ships is still a decent Workinghorse for PvP, but not OP at all.

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That is not an option for the first two DLC's since they've already been sold without cave-ats.. They must function as sold. Devs can make adjustments to the parameters of ships in general, but not make restrictions to already sold ingame assets. For the future DLCs the skys the limit tho.. As far as I'm concerned - set all ships on sale as DLCs, but let every ship be craftable ingame so as players can chose either to pay for the convenience or use time and effort to craft a ship.. With the current number of PvP matches ingame I doubt anyone will lose ships that often.. Generally what I don't like is the "We don't like P2W but we like the cash" mentality - one or the other and the decision has already been made with the first introductions of DLC ships..

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They should be redeemable permits imo that require  some effort to become fighting vessels. 2-3 click and instant te/wo wasa sibling  is not good for the game imo, but I will buy it.. 🙃 

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Limiting any ship to a specific woodtype(s) is bad.

Better option is to simply have wood types balanced so every woodtype has a quality that makes it useful. There is no need for useless framing/planking combinations, yet we have them.

Two years ago, we didn't. You went LO for the tanky, Oak if you wanted middle of the road tank, Teak if you preferred a bit more bounce, or fir if you wanted speed. Every wood type was used. If maximum difference between one end of the wood spectrum and the other is maybe 10%, there will be no useless woodtypes.

Furthermore, if all ships (and DLC ships especially) are properly balanced with each other, you won't need to artificially nerf them.


Again, its the same thing with the silly idea to limit wood construction type of SOLs. If ships are balanced with each other, and frigates have diverse sailing profiles (diverse when compared to larger ships, and with each other), then speedfit SOLs are not a problem. Nobody cares that your Bellona goes 14kn downwind if all average build frigates can outrun it upwind. 

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If they did what was suggested by opening post nobody would buy them :) .

 

 I predict there will in time be DLC for all rates,  7th to 1st,   and tbh can't see a reason they wouldn't.  Current economy model will over time create shortage of RvR capable ships and gaps will need to be filled (DLC).

Already are no ships for sale in KPR beyond capped and admiralty shop ones, but guess is still early after econ wipe so will see.

 

 

Edited by Dibbler

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2 hours ago, Isaac Le Maire said:

They need to be blueprints again.

All ships should be craftable in game unless it's some special reward or rare thing that we can't get from DLC or normal play.  

The DLC's should be 3/5+ chance at perk only.  Only craftable ships can be Purple/Gold.  That will set them a side from being more powerful than craftable cause all you do is click.   

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It's too late I think, the proverbial ship has sailed. You'll have to wait for NA2:electric boogaloo or NA3:revenge of the ocean 
Pre-dlc balance cannot be returned to, and post dlc is going to slowly eat away at the natural ship economy until it's rip :(

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i saw a suggestion the other day that you can only redeem ship in the port you own a shipyard, think this should get in so people wont have "free" teleports of ships.

Could also add to it that you can only redeem the ship if you have the required ship yard. E.g shipyard lvl 1 for requin, lvl 2 for Rättvisan

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Shipyard suggestion would just force us to waste a building slot for an expensive shipyard only to redeem a dlc ship ?  Or is it so only crafters buy DLC while those can't be sold ? That can't work.

 

About the woods, i've suggested limiting ship notes & redeemables to oak/sab/maho  (i removed fir as it's a bit op for lineships vs smaller ships due to new dmg model)  Teak, WO, LO, Cag, Cedar being rarer they should only be used in crafted ships & contribute to the econ. Otherwise DLC ships render those not rare at all and destroy the market.

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I don't agree with this at all.  The value of a ship note (DLC or RNG) is the choices of woods.  Take away that and you'll end up with even less ships at sea.  That is especially true with the rarity of woods.  As far as redeemable location is concerned, I wasn't aware that that was an issue.  I always redeem at my main port because that is where everything that I need to fit out the ship is found.  Putting a ship to sea involves more than just "redeem and set sail".

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To me the value is in not having to spend reals & time / haul / gather / buy ressources & buildings, craft & all to get your ship. And i think that is already huge.

 

Why anyone would have to face rarity in woods & permits + have to do the rest of what i described if there is no market left or interest / slight edge in doing so ? 

 

Redeemable location is really not a problem.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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No.

I personally liked a suggestion made that you can only redeem a DLC at the capital or player Shipyard.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again here....   

The disparity between woods needs to be cut in half... Oak/oak ships should NOT be inherently afraid of engaging ships of, say WO or Sabicu....  The difference should be perhaps one broadside.

The power gamers will still go after the shinies (because thats what they do), and the more austere amongst us will have less fear of insta-loss...

Also, can we please implement a contract system for ship-builders once we balance the woods a bit?  I should be able to put up a request to have a ship built if I dont have the infrastructure in place to build it, but still have the cash....

 

After that, we can shift our attention to the real big issue:  MODS.

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3 hours ago, Sveteran said:

i saw a suggestion the other day that you can only redeem ship in the port you own a shipyard, think this should get in so people wont have "free" teleports of ships.

Could also add to it that you can only redeem the ship if you have the required ship yard. E.g shipyard lvl 1 for requin, lvl 2 for Rättvisan

That was my suggestion, currently if you see a battle report near one of your outposts and dont have a ship there and have used your daily tow , all you have to do is desroy any current dlc and redeem a new in port you want, upgrades are in your captains chest and if your lucky the port may have longs in the shop but will definate have mediums to fit ,

 

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15 minutes ago, shunt said:

That was my suggestion, currently if you see a battle report near one of your outposts and dont have a ship there and have used your daily tow , all you have to do is desroy any current dlc and redeem a new in port you want, upgrades are in your captains chest and if your lucky the port may have longs in the shop but will definate have mediums to fit ,

 

Why is that a bad thing?  If you don't have DLC, you may be able to grab a shop ship for the same result..  In the end, if it causes more content, that's a positive.

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16 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again here....   

The disparity between woods needs to be cut in half... Oak/oak ships should NOT be inherently afraid of engaging ships of, say WO or Sabicu....  The difference should be perhaps one broadside.

 

the new damage model makes it not much of a difference anyway.

After all is said and done, the main difference between teak/wo and teak/sabicu is 2% thickness. Factor in new penetration and damage from cannons and it's a moot point.

Honestly when it comes to wood, the only glaring outlier is Teak as a frame. It's just miles better than any other wood that would otherwise take it's place.

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6 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

the new damage model makes it not much of a difference anyway.

After all is said and done, the main difference between teak/wo and teak/sabicu is 2% thickness. Factor in new penetration and damage from cannons and it's a moot point.

Honestly when it comes to wood, the only glaring outlier is Teak as a frame. It's just miles better than any other wood that would otherwise take it's place.

Damage doesn't matter as much as you say.  It's more about OW speed.  That fraction of a knot can be very important.

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3 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Why is that a bad thing?  If you don't have DLC, you may be able to grab a shop ship for the same result..  In the end, if it causes more content, that's a positive.

of course you can buy a ship if there is one for sale ...or you can use a basic cutter ... the DLC  allows you to choose the type of ship and the  build thats not the case on relying on whats available in te shop  ... if you believe  the only content in the game is PVP .. then here is a list of changes that will give a massive amount of content

1. No limit on tows

2. ships can be towed with repairs  in hold

3. no limit on number of outposts

4. can tow to " open for all"  ports if you have an outpost there

5 no cost to tow

6 no battles close

7  1 join circle only

I can go on if you want  but theres 7 changes that will enable more" pvp content"

how long has the game been in testing   3 years and its taken that long for someone to relise the only content that matters is pvp ?????

 

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1 minute ago, shunt said:

if you believe  the only content in the game is PVP

Never did I ever say that.  I enjoy all aspects of the game.  I like your #'s 1, 2 and 3 though.

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22 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Never did I ever say that.  I enjoy all aspects of the game.  I like your #'s 1, 2 and 3 though.

I agree you didnt say PVP was the only content ,  but having DLC ships craftable in any of your ports .. eliminates most of the other content

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18 hours ago, Meraun said:

In light of recent Discussion about the 4th Rate DLC, why no limit the DLC ships to certain Woods? Make them Oak/Fir as Redeemable and maybe as a permanent Craftingpermit for all Woodtypes?

And Oak/Oak Ships is still a decent Workinghorse for PvP, but not OP at all.

i m not buying a dlc when i can redeem only oak oak or oak fir ships

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We do not know the stats of the new 4th rate. Admin stated that it will be a 24pdr 4th rate. So the ship will obviously not be the one we see when we use Felix Victors ship calculator (the ship uses 32pdr there!). Reading all this rage and rumor without any proper information  is interesting. 

I read that per definitionem it is also pay to win if it is pay to spear time. With p2w meaning pay to spear time I am fine.

I only dislike it when ships you have to pay for have the best stats. I do not know this jet.

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