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1 minute ago, Socialism said:

Wargaming is free to play.

They received money for their work.  Naval Action wasn't free.  

Oddly enough, Banished's post was well constructed and anything but childlike.  Childlike behavior would be akin to your meltdown about 9lb cannons yesterday.  

Who is this?  The writing style seems familiar, but I cant place the name.... 

Oh, you just joined on December 8th....   

Let me fill you in on what you've missed....

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5 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Who is this?  The writing style seems familiar, but I cant place the name.... 

Oh, you just joined on December 8th....   

Let me fill you in on what you've missed....

well who's acting like a child now? 

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14 minutes ago, admin said:

We can and might add premium vessels up to the 3rd rate (or maybe 4th) - we never promised any specific classes on steam page or store page.
What the fuss is about, can you explain to me?? Is it just a linguistic discussion (What is a 4th rate)? Or people only use search when it suits them ignoring other statements on the same matter.

People are upset because a DLC lineship is game breaking.  The DLC 5th and 6th rates that were introduced ruined RVR for quite a while.  Some share the opinion that they've ruined the game completely.  Of course this DLC ship will be slightly OP relative to it's competition...because you want to sell it.  You also told your players that you would not introduce a "lineship" DLC here on the forums.  People have, and perhaps wrongly, taken you at your word.    

People are also upset because.....well....lets call this what it is....a cash grab.  Yet another DLC, right after you just released one last week, on top of the 5 others that have already come out....for a game that has yet to be completed.  You see the drama right?  You also have another 2-3 planned by your own admission in the near future before launch.  Making what? 9 or 10 DLCs current and planned for a game that has yet to be released.  People view this as excessive and maybe even exploitative.  

To add another log on to the fire...the current patch is anything but complete and there are still glaring issues, some that appear to be being worked on, some that appear to have been ignored.  Many think think the current iteration of the game is unplayable.  

Just finish the game.  Enough with the DLC content.  Fix the issues, put out a playable release and then pump us for DLCs.      

Edited by Socialism
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Wargaming is free to play.

They received money for their work.  Naval Action wasn't free.  

Oddly enough, Banished's post was well constructed and anything but childlike.  Childlike behavior would be akin to your meltdown about 9lb cannons yesterday.  

Now when you cant blow off this comment just bcs of join date i would love to hear your answer on monetization of early access game. THANK YOU

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This is going a bit out of control but it's understandable from both sides. There were promises made that let some players to play this game more intensely as they would have if they had known. Personally I don't want to make anybody reliable for what he said 3 years ago. But the problem here is simply that there are some very rare resources ingame which are needed for being a sucessful pvp'er. So the main problem is that -- unlike in the beginning of the game -- success is directly bind on luck. Luck to get these rare resources to be able to learn enzyclopedia in academy. We've lately seen too many vids of nearly unbeatable ships -- nowadays fighting in a trinco against lineships is for a normal player impossible ...

I think it's a matter of good game design to give players with less playtime the same chance to win as powerplayers. In the early stage many people (myself too) were caught by the beatiful designed ships , the sailing realism and the chance to compete with equal equipped opponents. This gave this game a kind of magic moment where you felt that anything was possible. But this magic got destroyed -- I have in personal nohting against the ship knowledge -- you can choose which ship you like to sail in and level that up. So all the different advantages or disadvantages of the ships mattered and had to be learned.

Now it's gone because of upgrades. Under the predicament of realism this was the badest idea in the design of this game. You are faced with great frustration when you have to learn that the other player is not better but he had just the bigger ship with better upgrades. I really love the frigates and the age of sail but this makes my whole game experience a mess. All really good competitve games which are still played years and years after release have the same chance for everybody to win from game's perspective but then are decicded by SKILL!

The best example out there: CS GO. You have different skins (buyable) and nice looking weapons but every weapon has the same specs. No buy to win and no buy to be better, only buy to look nicer. Give this game back the charme it had years ago. You'll find a new stable player base staying a long time with this game.

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Honestly, I cannot believe the disrespect and utter anger people are giving these devs. If I were them, I'd release tomorrow and leave the game as is...maybe even let some other company buy it outright. No matter the state of the game, despite the difficulties in acquiring ships I want, seeing DLC P2W ships come, etc, I know I still love the game and will still play it. There is nothing like it on the market; it's fun, it's an enjoyable grind, it's a great way to spend my time, it's beautiful, it has all the qualities I like in a game. I'm personally glad the devs have thicker skin than most devs would.

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3 hours ago, admin said:

additional info (also confirms only 3rd rates and above)

still looking for older posts but forum software does not allow to search so far in activity, 
i am sure some historians and internet laywers like @Banished Privateer can find more and post here saving my time ;)

He cannot because you banned him.

And your treatment of longtime members of this community voicing their rightfull concern is despicable. Shame on you.

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19 minutes ago, mikawa said:

The best example out there: CS GO. You have different skins (buyable) and nice looking weapons but every weapon has the same specs. No buy to win and no buy to be better, only buy to look nicer. Give this game back the charme it had years ago. You'll find a new stable player base staying a long time with this game.

not completely right about the stats though, its different magazines, rate of fire and damage etc, but i get your point.

I think its more about if you die in CSGO, you havent lost your skins or pixels. I was in the boat where one durability would be nice and realistic, but i dont know anymore after those 2 engagements i had yesterday where people only want to run or gank because they dont want to risk their ships which they have spent hours on getting, which is totally understandable.

Looking at the player charts it had a massive drop 1 week after the great wipe in 2017, and i think it has something to do with the durability and the other major thing (dont remember what it was from the top of my head atm)

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1 minute ago, Sveteran said:

not completely right about the stats though, its different magazines, rate of fire and damage etc, but i get your point.

I think its more about if you die in CSGO, you havent lost your skins or pixels. I was in the boat where one durability would be nice and realistic, but i dont know anymore after those 2 engagements i had yesterday where people only want to run or gank because they dont want to risk their ships which they have spent hours on getting, which is totally understandable.

Looking at the player charts it had a massive drop 1 week after the great wipe in 2017, and i think it has something to do with the durability and the other major thing (dont remember what it was from the top of my head atm)

Conquest marks.

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50 minutes ago, admin said:

What the fuss is about, can you explain to me?? Is it just a linguistic discussion (What is a 4th rate)?
Or people only use search when it suits them ignoring other statements on the same matter (for example ignoring our statement from 2015 that max rate for a premium ship is a 3rd)

It's all about ship DLCs some players can't bear, calling them P2W. If you hadn't mentioned the Rettvisan, they would have raged about the Hermione, once free in the game and now... etc.

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13 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

It's all about ship DLCs some players can't bear, calling them P2W. If you hadn't mentioned the Rettvisan, they would have raged about the Hermione, once free in the game and now... etc.

Precisely. 

I see two point of potential rage, outcry and anger.

#1 Players might see it as shortening the avaiable ship roster while increasing the size of dlc ones.

#2 they might be just pissed about the fact that by buying dlc ship you avoid hauling and crafting. And allowing them to pop those ships one daily is crushing both eco and any possibility to ballance rvr and pvp awards. So some players might see it as breaking the game just to allow players pay for dlc "fix" .

Edited by manuva85
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1 hour ago, mikawa said:

But the problem here is simply that there are some very rare resources ingame which are needed for being a sucessful pvp'er. So the main problem is that -- unlike in the beginning of the game -- success is directly bind on luck. Luck to get these rare resources to be able to learn enzyclopedia in academy

Stuff is too rare!  I concur.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

What the fuss is about, can you explain to me??

My two cents: The fuss is not about the rate so much (for me) as long as they are properly balanced. The Herc and LeReq were not properly balanced imo and Hercs in particular were everywhere and it turned the game into a farce. Thankfully the new damage model inadvertently nerfed the Herc back (the bigger frigates can now overpower them) and so you got away with it and they are actually in a pretty good place now. But that was a black period for this game and very nearly made me quit.

Premium ships are free (in game) so they are already massively attractive to those who don't mind spending more RL$ and already makes them OP, they do not need to be OP in performance too. If this Rettvisan is ridiculously fast with 6 bow chasers and kills anything that can catch it then you might get a nice injection of cash but the game will be broken again. The L'Hermione is a good ship but is balanced as is the Wasa so I can just about live with these. It would be a much better game without any RL money ships at all imo,  but obviously that's not an option which I can understand. An OP 4th rate coming in at this stage would be disastrous. You say crafted ships will be better? OK, so then I won't be making a fuss.

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1 hour ago, Hullabaloo said:

 

My two cents: The fuss is not about the rate so much (for me) as long as they are properly balanced. The Herc and LeReq were not properly balanced imo and Hercs in particular were everywhere and it turned the game into a farce. Thankfully the new damage model inadvertently nerfed the Herc back (the bigger frigates can now overpower them) and so you got away with it and they are actually in a pretty good place now. But that was a black period for this game and very nearly made me quit.

 

 

 

 Hercs are total trash now,  they have a little more structure than a snow, absolutely no point having one  (better to use a surp, reno, cerb that can enter shallows).   Yes they were op but now has gone to other extreme,  same for all 5th's they are weak now.

 Tbh if i could i would ask for money back on DLC lol.

 

 Wait for these new DLC to hit i bet they totally overpowered for first couple months, I hope i wrong but going on previous form wouldn't surprise me.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Dibbler
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Eight pages of back and forth rants regarding pay to win ships...okay I get that.  But Zero information about the upcoming changes to ship crafting....are you dumbing it down again or making it interesting to craft ships and other items?   What do you have to offer those who enjoy putting an effort into making great ships for themselves and others?   Going to increase the attribute and rare ship drop for level 50 crafters?  What's the future look like for crafters?

 

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1 hour ago, cmdrbobcito said:

 

I’m wanting to know about this down level it to 7 levels and more details myself.  This pissed me off more than a 3rd rate as a 4th rate DLC.

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7 hours ago, Socialism said:

The DLC 5th and 6th rates that were introduced ruined RVR for quite a while.  Some share the opinion that they've ruined the game completely.

I supported the addition of those 2 and think they did more good for the game than harm. They give players a small but capable ship that they can risk without worrying about loss, so they can never be pushed out of the game completely or get too frustrated and they let people avoid most of the crafting and eco game to focus on only fighting, if they have limited time, don't enjoy eco / crafting or both. The price for those two ships is fair enough aswell and helps support the game ( hopefully ).

But I think it is absolutely, where they should have drawn the line. Pandora and L'Hermione are already pushing it and Rettvisan is pretty much the breaking point ( if it will be a note and not a permit ). Getting this 4th rate with power of a 3rd rate ( first Wasa / Gustav Adolf comes to mind btw ) without having to actually craft / build it will make it a absolute necessity.

If it would actually be implemented as permit and be balanced, I guess it could be fine but what are the odds of that?

Now among other DLCs a new player would have to get at least 2-3 small DLC ships to get started and definitely the Rettvisan at some point. Let's not forget this isn't a free2play game we are talking about here, it has a 40$ base price. 

Now even tho there is a chance the devs only want to milk me dry and drop the game and its development after release completely, I am willing to pay that because I love the game and enjoyed it very much - the question is, whether or not the average new player will be aswell, looking at at "mostly negative (35%)" rating on steam.

If I had never played NA and found the storepage on steam, this 35% rating combined with 9 DLCs would be more than a bunch of red flags.

 

Personally I will hold off on buying these new DLC ships for a while and see how the game and player population develops first. Gamelabs did an excellent job with the game so far and I paid plenty already to show my appreciation and enjoy their work but at this point I want to see what they are doing with all this cash and only 2 programmers and how the game is progressing / where it is heading, before I invest further.

If I knew that Naval Action development actually profitted proportionately to DLC revenue and the money does not go into other gamelab projects or somewhere else ( which it probably does ), I would buy each and every DLC they throw at me ( as long as they wouldn't go completely overboard with the pay2win creep ).

Guess I have to start following admins mantra "Expect the worst, keep expectations low." ...

 

Edited by Sovereign
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11 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

Peace server will not get population hit

Yeah, very true. Keep in mind however, you can not hit population, that does not exist to begin with.

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7 hours ago, mikawa said:

This is going a bit out of control but it's understandable from both sides. There were promises made that let some players to play this game more intensely as they would have if they had known. Personally I don't want to make anybody reliable for what he said 3 years ago. But the problem here is simply that there are some very rare resources ingame which are needed for being a sucessful pvp'er. So the main problem is that -- unlike in the beginning of the game -- success is directly bind on luck. Luck to get these rare resources to be able to learn enzyclopedia in academy. We've lately seen too many vids of nearly unbeatable ships -- nowadays fighting in a trinco against lineships is for a normal player impossible ...

I think it's a matter of good game design to give players with less playtime the same chance to win as powerplayers. In the early stage many people (myself too) were caught by the beatiful designed ships , the sailing realism and the chance to compete with equal equipped opponents. This gave this game a kind of magic moment where you felt that anything was possible. But this magic got destroyed -- I have in personal nohting against the ship knowledge -- you can choose which ship you like to sail in and level that up. So all the different advantages or disadvantages of the ships mattered and had to be learned.

Now it's gone because of upgrades. Under the predicament of realism this was the badest idea in the design of this game. You are faced with great frustration when you have to learn that the other player is not better but he had just the bigger ship with better upgrades. I really love the frigates and the age of sail but this makes my whole game experience a mess. All really good competitve games which are still played years and years after release have the same chance for everybody to win from game's perspective but then are decicded by SKILL!

The best example out there: CS GO. You have different skins (buyable) and nice looking weapons but every weapon has the same specs. No buy to win and no buy to be better, only buy to look nicer. Give this game back the charme it had years ago. You'll find a new stable player base staying a long time with this game.

Come on. It's just realism that a bigger ship kills a smaller one.  Figthing a 1. Rate with a Trinco successfully was killing the game much more than the opposite. 1. Rates sailing alone have been cheap targets for gankers in fast frigates. 

Wanna fight a lineship? Risk your lineship as well, and you get a proper chance for your risk.

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6 hours ago, StuntPotato said:

He cannot because you banned him.

And your treatment of longtime members of this community voicing their rightfull concern is despicable. Shame on you.


Player have threatened the developer (with filing for violation) for giving new content (ships) and thanking players for positive reviews?  Reporting to valve for turn rate rebalance? Whats next - stop all development, because someone will report us for changing the game?. Such supporters are not needed both on forums and in game. You are defending the wrong person.

Kind reminder. Discussion of moderating policies is not allowed - you read the rules when registered account. 

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Just now, Sovereign said:

Yeah, very true. Keep in mind however, you can not hit population, that does not exist to begin with.

Peace server has population but its lower during working/school days.

Rattvisan guns:                             Aganemnon guns:

28x24pd                                         26x24pd

26x18pd                                         26x18pd

8x6pd                                             12x9pds   

Guys calm alittle about Rattvisan its a 24pd light lineship classed as 4th rate like aga and do not forget aga does not need permit

 

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31 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I supported the addition of those 2 and think they did more good for the game than harm.

They did only good. 
DLC ships provide for 30% of battles and even more significant percentage of pvp deaths (content for others).
We provided these numbers before. 

This is a game about PVP fights and RVR, crafting was promised as basic and will remain basic. 
If crafters are such a powerful force why in KPR players cannot buy a good cerberus? I saw the guy who could not find a crafted cerberus, in the most populated nation. 

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