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14 minutes ago, z4ys said:

more fights = better fights?

i rather have less but more thrilling ones

free stuff offers no thrill 

DLC ships are "free stuff". You have those.

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2 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

That is how you get banned. You are intelligent enough to understand that they are "done" with the game.

I have said very controversial things over the period of this game development. As long as it is objective I highly doubt if I will get banned. Most members that have 1000+ posts keep on pushing the devs with nonsensical posts just to have an argument. I am not surprised they get banned. You can say what ever you want about the game. You can call mechanics shit if you believe them to be so. As long as you give a good reason for it. I say something is p2w and it is controversial for sure. I give great reasons for it. Your sarcasm is something that can get you banned for example. This is a development thread and sarcasm is trolling. If you were banned for it I would understand. If the devs were done with the game they would simply release it. There is nothing that prevents them from doing it. If they were done with the game the would have released it 4 years ago. They have given us years of work for free. You need to give credit were it is due and be critical of things that need critic. Naval action has no replacement. If this game doesn't work we will all pay the price for it. I will not play dog shit like atlas. I will only settle for a proper sailing game like this and will keep pushing for mechanics I personally believe to be better. I can be wrong but thats what the rest of you are here for. To tell me when I am :)  

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12 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Naval action has no replacement. If this game doesn't work we will all pay the price for it. I will not play dog shit like atlas. I will only settle for a proper sailing game like this and will keep pushing for mechanics I personally believe to be better.

You are right, that is why I am here.

Moderation here matches their game development.

Month ago they were very enthusiastically claiming that the patrol zones are great asset for pvp. They were backing it up with their data ect. In weeks all of them except shallows turned to fishing grounds. Their eyes were focused on shallow data because of DLC sale success. I presume we will see 2 games inside another with release or after release; former being (more lucrative) lobby style patrol zone events with DLC ships for solo/casual players and later being RvR gameplay for few clans. They statement about keeping economy basic tells a lot.

Honest question. Do you see yourself playing such a game in future?

Yet, I wish I am wrong.

 

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2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

The side that doesnt need to spend reals because they have DLC ships will most likly not run out first... Proved my point again.

Awwww... And I sat down and did all those numbers and you weren't even paying attention! T_T

2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

I am saying the DLC model is p2w. You are denying it.

My thinking is not as binary as yours. If Endy was DLC it would be clear cut P2W.

You're avoiding my insurance numbers because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm mostly aboard the other points in your post, good stuff!

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1 hour ago, Aerospace said:

I think the most problematic thing done lately is the ship permits and limiting the rare woods to harcore extent.

I used to attack npc tbrids and tsnows, they used to have dubloons or resources inside the hold. The wood was generaly 500 to 750 tons. After recent patch when I looted npc traders, I only saw a fixed amount of 125 wood or 3-4 trading product. So 125 white oak is funny compared to 750.

Still can not figure out why 5th rate ships (pvp workhorse) and below are tied to rng permits.

First they lowered crafting costs of 5th rate and below, that was the best move ever ! That meant more pvp for sure !, more ship crafting, more guns, resources and more economy

So there was the economic wipe, all economy halted and crafting also. Now we have money again but economy and crafting could not recover, due to very hard to reach rare woods and rng permits.

I always thought bigger ships need to be expansive, costly, harder to acquire, but I could not imagine this happening to all ships !

What is the benefit aside from forcing the people to buy DLC ships ?

I tell you what dear developer team;

Remove RNG permits for 5th rate and below, increase the rare woods on traders a bit. Establish real ship bidding at capitals and freetowns and list all the ships on sale. I have 8 outposts, I have lots of buildings, shipyards, docks, warehouses, farms, mines, I have millions of reals in bank or chest, I am a rich man. So let me afford some workers, so they will do bidding for me at my capital and freetowns for ships and goods.

Instead you can give us 8 free outpost slot only for freetowns and our original 8 outpost which are not freetowns, so we can increase PVP/PVE/Crafting/Economy, easy to reach most content. What is the harm ? aside from harming the ALTS which are also killing this game aside from you earning some more money, but it is poison !

 

Making 5th rate frigates, light frigates and some heavier frigates only be craftable through permits was a mistake! If the devs didn't make it that way, i'm pretty sure frigates would completely take over the open world, because they are cost-friendly and doesn't take that long to craft, making them viable to grind and craft and put them out on the waters for pvp, hence making more and more fights accessible to everybody. Right now, people are still going for the big boys because they will overpower anything, unless it's outnumbered or outgunned, but SOLs now are way more harder to craft.

Making frigates more easily obtainable would take the huge load that the devs placed upon the community, making everything 100 times more difficult. If you could craft a L'Hermione, Belle Poule, Endymion, Essex, Surprise, Rennomeé more easily, people would definetly go down that path, making pvp more viable and not a completely grind/farming game.

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1 minute ago, jodgi said:

Awwww... And I sat down and did all those numbers and you weren't even paying attention! T_T

My thinking is not as binary as yours. If Endy was DLC it would be clear cut P2W.

You're avoiding my insurance numbers because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I'm mostly aboard the other points in your post, good stuff!

thats actually a good point and I will always admit being wrong about the insurance. I still have Crafting time, sailing time of resources and the grind of permits. I mean the real grind itself is not the hard part about ship building. What makes the endy pay2win and the upcoming 5th rates not? 

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26 minutes ago, Barbarosa said:

Honest question. Do you see yourself playing such a game in future?

 

No. 

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6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

What makes the endy pay2win and the upcoming 5th rates not?

Because it's a top dog: 24 pounders and speed. You can't counter it with anything craftable. Niag would be p2w too (Nassau).

Hermie can easily be beaten with a ship costing 18k (with a 15k return on insurance). I will buy all the things, but when they're released I'll go fight them in better ships that will cost me less should I lose and sink.

You're right about me being selfish. When I saw what eco did to a game I frantically started thinking "How will I be able to deal with this!?". It's all about me and my fun; I admit it.

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20 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Because it's a top dog: 24 pounders and speed. You can't counter it with anything craftable. Niag would be p2w too (Nassau).

Hermie can easily be beaten with a ship costing 18k (with a 15k return on insurance). I will buy all the things, but when they're released I'll go fight them in better ships that will cost me less should I lose and sink.

You're right about me being selfish. When I saw what eco did to a game I frantically started thinking "How will I be able to deal with this!?". It's all about me and my fun; I admit it.

Ship stats are not what make them p2w in this case. I never even bothered with that argument simply because there is nothing to argue about. Certain ships are better than others. If the stats exceed those of their real life counterparts then we have a problem. Some people dislike the fact the trinco is no match more for an endymion because of guns. Its real so I am happy. Endymion was historically a better sailor and is 25% larger. There is no comparison between the two of them. Poods make the trinco op atm tbf. I am just as lazy as you and that is a real fact. That doesn't mean the overall game design should be adjusted for lazy players. You reap what you sow and players that go out and trade, build ships and have all the nice things deserve to have the best ships. They do the work for it. They should not be punished for anyones convenience. I will always stand by that point no matter what. 

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1 hour ago, jodgi said:

You're avoiding my insurance numbers because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I think I have proved that your insurance figures only work when you take out things like LH and you leave your computer on overnight with your keyboard wedged to prevent logout so you can afk fish. Any slight difference a non DLC player may get due to insurance is more than off set by DLC players being able to redeem and insta sell their ship to get doubloons (may not be much now with just Herc and LRQ, but with 3 more DLC's and more on the way it will be a big income stream).

Even Admin couldnt respond after he tried to make out I was using bogus figures and I proved I was using what was in game. At best insurance covers the cost of most of the ship materials and nothing more, so please stop using this as an argument.

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3 hours ago, Pirate78 said:

62/64-gun Rattvisan 1783 was taken by Russians in 1790.

fu***g Russians he take dls ship for use  5 rate frigate Venum.        cheaters!!!!😁😁

p/s Russian flit in 1783 - 90% (fir/fir) 

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23 minutes ago, Archaos said:

so please stop using this as an argument.

Feel free to disregard it, but it's how I'm going to play this sandbox: Get things dirt cheap, I'll even be able to pay for provisions if that's an important point for you, craft ship, lose it and get almost everything back. I'll also use my future prems, but they'll cost me more reals upon loss. I have to disregard LH because they're thrown at me every day in greater quantities then I'm able to spend.

It's not a tricksy argument; It's what I'm doing right now and will be doing going forward. Crafted ships are cheaper for me to lose than premiums.

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9 hours ago, toblerone said:

actually he was not. The Essex sold by the IA in the shop has been created with zero cost and efforts and can be made available in potentially endless numbers, while real world goods are created with costs, time and effort and in limited numners. That's the reason why some theories and economic models may work in games but not so much in real world.

Getting back to the game, what I said before means that the crafted Essex - which has been created with actual costs, time and effort by a player - reflects the actual value of the ship in the game much than the same ship sold in IA shop, since this last kind sale is just an attempt of games mechanics to induce an artificially low price in the market (which TBH is in part mitigated by the fact that ships sold by IA are wood/crew so they are worse in general than crafted ones).

Listen here you little brainlet. Why would I purchase some absurdly overpriced ship sold by the bourgeoisie when I can have my based communist alt-brethren click one out at a fraction of the price. 

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3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Naval action has no replacement. If this game doesn't work we will all pay the price for it. I will not play dog shit like atlas. I will only settle for a proper sailing game like this and will keep pushing for mechanics I personally believe to be better. I can be wrong but thats what the rest of you are here for. To tell me when I am :)  

Wise Words Hachi.    1000% spot on

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4 hours ago, Aerospace said:

Remove RNG permits for 5th rate and below, increase the rare woods on traders a bit. Establish real ship bidding at capitals and freetowns and list all the ships on sale. I have 8 outposts, I have lots of buildings, shipyards, docks, warehouses, farms, mines, I have millions of reals in bank or chest, I am a rich man. So let me afford some workers, so they will do bidding for me at my capital and freetowns for ships and goods.

That was my exact thought just a few minutes ago while I was disconnecting.

Opening a gold chest only to find your 3rd Prince permit... Which can be bought anyway from Admiralty... Pfff come on. What's the point?
I've been wanting to craft a Niagara for a few days now, welp, can't find a permit... Not even from other players. What's the point? It's a Niagara, not a Bismarck xD

And I fail to see what it is supposed to bring to the game.

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3 hours ago, Zlatkowar said:

That was my exact thought just a few minutes ago while I was disconnecting.

Opening a gold chest only to find your 3rd Prince permit... Which can be bought anyway from Admiralty... Pfff come on. What's the point?
I've been wanting to craft a Niagara for a few days now, welp, can't find a permit... Not even from other players. What's the point? It's a Niagara, not a Bismarck xD

And I fail to see what it is supposed to bring to the game.

The solution; make the ships craftable again. 

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28 minutes ago, Bubba Smith said:

The solution; make the ships craftable again. 

Yes make all ships craftable again, and remove this permit system

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We need more DLC ships.
I was in the zone yesterday fighting a trader (5000 dmg for 3 medals).
Of course I was ganged by 3 bigger ships.
NProblem - i had a Hercules.

But - I don't collect resources for weeks, level up my factories, build cannons and caronades, build upgrades and then crafted a nice ship, after investing  a lot of time (no student - I have to work) ------------- and all to get ganged in 30 minutes !!!

After that I want to uninstall the game and Play WOW

No - we need more DLC ships for this.

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3 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

But - I don't collect resources for weeks, level up my factories, build cannons and caronades, build upgrades and then crafted a nice ship, after investing  a lot of time (no student - I have to work) ------------- and all to get ganged in 30 minutes !!!

I sympathize. It's easy for me to get almost everything I want cheap and easy; I have the patience to set up shop that allows an easy life after it's done.

People who have to rely on DLCs and ships bought in shops will struggle economically. You can always cap ships but then you get the worst fighting equipment.

We are pushed to join clans to get by, it works but I don't quite trust that to have a globally and lasting positive effect on player recruitment and retention.

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14 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

We need more DLC ships.
I was in the zone yesterday fighting a trader (5000 dmg for 3 medals).
Of course I was ganged by 3 bigger ships.
NProblem - i had a Hercules.

But - I don't collect resources for weeks, level up my factories, build cannons and caronades, build upgrades and then crafted a nice ship, after investing  a lot of time (no student - I have to work) ------------- and all to get ganged in 30 minutes !!!

After that I want to uninstall the game and Play WOW

No - we need more DLC ships for this.

I don't see why you need DLC in your case.

I suppose you can capture 7-5 rate in OW (captured ships have cannons) go to patrol zone and earn medals. One medal cost about 30-40K.

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21 minutes ago, qw569 said:

I don't see why you need DLC in your case.

I suppose you can capture 7-5 rate in OW (captured ships have cannons) go to patrol zone and earn medals. One medal cost about 30-40K.

A DLC ship where I can choose the wood and an NPC captured ship is not the same.
Captured ships are rubbish and only there to give dmg counts to other Players. I've tried this often.

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4 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

A DLC ship where I can choose the wood and an NPC captured ship is not the same.
Captured ships are rubbish and only there to give dmg counts to other Players. I've tried this often.

The main goal of patrol area is make damage. If you made specific amount of damage then you get medals.

Therefore I don't see differences on what ship do damage.

 

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13 minutes ago, qw569 said:

The main goal of patrol area is make damage. If you made specific amount of damage then you get medals.

Therefore I don't see differences on what ship do damage.

 

For me, it's a difference.

Of course I can take a captured ship and win some Points. I did ist sometimes.
But - with a captured ship I am mostly the slaughter cow for the veterans.

This really isn't any fun. I'm not playing for that.

 

If that's the case, I'd prefer to play something else.

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