Time to give 9 pounders to the Prince de Neufchatel

[Vernon Merrill]

After having spent another day chasing, and not catching, what I could possibly fight and not possibly fighting what I could actually catch, I have a suggestion:

Can we PRETTY PLEASE put 9 lb.-ers on the Prince de Neufchatel??

A) There's historical precedent.  (Threedecks.com)

b) We can actually be able to out-damage the repairs every five mins....

I just had a nice fight with a Pirate Frigate....   ended up as a stalemate due to me avoiding his broadsides (mostly) and him repairing whatever my pea-shooters had managed to damage in the last 10 mins.....

Oh, and I then tried to engage a T-Brig on his way back into Mortimer...  even though I was doing 30 knots in the OW, he was pulling away.   Does that make sense?  Me thinks these mods need more nerfing.  

 

Just my $.02 to try and make the game more playable for ALL ship classes...

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

I use the prince mainly as a trade raider or support ship. Noticed with the cannon changes that I am definitely rolling light. A boost the guns qould be nice to make its support role better.

[LeBoiteux]

According to R. Gardiner, Warships of the Napoleonic Era, the Prince only had 2x6-pdr (guns) + 16x12-pdr (carro) :

According to threedecks, she had only 18 guns.

In game, she can have :

• 20 x 6-pdr (guns)
• or 16x18-pdr (carro) + 4 x24-pdr (carro)
• + bow and stern chasers 

It seems (more than) fair.

Prince is a very good 6-pdr ship with a great sailing profile, compared to in-game square-rigged 6-pders, such as Brigs and Corvettes (Rattlesnake).

But she is not a 9-pdr ships like LRQ and thus she does not deserve 32-pdr carronades.

(Things may be simpler for the Prince if 6-pdr ships and 9-pdr ships (Niagara, LRG, Cerberus, Pandora, La Renommée, Surprise) were separate but right now the 6th rate group mixes 6-pders and 9-pders.)

So, IMO, the answer is no 9-pdr (guns) / 32-pdr (carro) on the Prince.

 

PS : you are talking about a fight between a 6-pdr ship (your small Prince) and a 18-pdr frigate (the 'Pirate frigate') !!!!!

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Vernon Merrill]

Also on threedecks, from a firsthand account:

Extract of letter from Capt. Sir George Collier, of his Majesty's ship Leander...1815, Jan 28 - Sir, I have the pleasure to acquaint you, that with the squadron under my orders, being in quest of the American ships of war, which escaped during the late gales from the Ports of Massachusetts, I had the good fortune, yesterday, at sunset, to capture the celebrated privateer, Prince de Neufchatel, hermaphrodite - rigged, pierced for 22 guns, and having 18 mounted, six of which are long nine, and twelve pounders, and the rest twelve pounder carronades

 

And to your second point:  Is it good for GAMEPLAY that a well-handled 6th rate cannot engage with a low 4th/high 5th rate with at least a REASONABLE chance of success?   

Its not like I was trying to stern camp a Vic here....

 

 

[LeBoiteux]

43 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Also on threedecks, from a firsthand account:

Extract of letter from Capt. Sir George Collier, of his Majesty's ship Leander...1815, Jan 28 - Sir, I have the pleasure to acquaint you, that with the squadron under my orders, being in quest of the American ships of war, which escaped during the late gales from the Ports of Massachusetts, I had the good fortune, yesterday, at sunset, to capture the celebrated privateer, Prince de Neufchatel, hermaphrodite - rigged, pierced for 22 guns, and having 18 mounted, six of which are long nine, and twelve pounders, and the rest twelve pounder carronades

First, it is a comment from a poster. The original letter should be found first to serve as a real source.

Second, what does it say ? IMO that the day of capture, she may have had 18 guns, that is :

• out of 6 guns, some were 9 long guns, others were 12-pdr guns (As privateers, they put what they had at hand)
• the 12 others  were 12-pdr carronades 

Thirdly, Gardiner says she usually had 2x6-pdr (guns) + 16x12-pdr (carro). It is the armament she was meant to have.

Nothing that justify to give her 20 x 32-pdr carronades (or 20 x 9-pdr guns).

The game gives her 16x18-pdr (carro) + 4 x24-pdr (carro) + bow and stern chasers.

That's more than enough for her.

She's a 6-pdr ship. Period.

What do you want ? Give every ship in game 32-pdr carro ?

43 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

And to your second point:  Is it good for GAMEPLAY that a well-handled 6th rate cannot engage with a low 4th/high 5th rate with at least a REASONABLE chance of success?   

Yes.

The Prince is not a well-handled 6th rate, she's a well-handled 6-pder while LRQ is a well-handled 9-pder and having 24 guns, a currently well-handled 6th rate.

I know you love the Prince. Not a reason to buff her unreasonably. 🙂

Edited March 23, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Vernon Merrill]

19 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

First, it is a comment from a poster. The original letter should be found first to serve as a real source.

Second, what does it say ? IMO that the day of capture, she may have had 18 guns, that is :

• out of 6 guns, some were 9 long guns, others were 12-pdr guns
• the 12 others  were 12-pdr carronades 

Thirdly, Gardiner says she usually had 2x6-pdr (guns) + 16x12-pdr (carro).

Nothing that justify to give her 20 x 32-pdr carronades (or 20 x 9-pdr guns).

The game gives her 16x18-pdr (carro) + 4 x24-pdr (carro) + bow and stern chasers.

That's more than enough for her.

She's a 6-pdr ship. Period.

What do you want ? Give every ship in game 32-pdr carro ?

Yes.

The Prince is not a well-handled 6th rate, she's a well-handled 6-pder while LRQ is a well-handled 9-pder and having 24 guns, a currently well-handled 6th rate.

I know you love the Prince. Not a reason to buff her unreasonably. 🙂

Got it....  so we can put these mythical death-ray "poods" on ships that never had them, but when it comes to smaller ships, its strictly fact-based....   ok, then.

[LeBoiteux]

15 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Got it....  so we can put these mythical death-ray "poods" on ships that never had them, but when it comes to smaller ships, its strictly fact-based....   ok, then.

I've never posted anything about the poods. I just give my opinion about the Prince. 🙂

Moreover, 6-pders must be promoted (e. g. by taking away 9-pders from them, etc), not thrown in the garbage by artificially making some of them 9-pders and let the others unplayed. NA must move toward diversity (playing 6-pders and 9-pders and 12-pdr frigates and...), not give any ship the same armament (ie 32-pdr carronade and above) and make Prince = LRQ for example.

I like the Prince... as she is.

Edited March 23, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Socialism]

This would ruin my historical immersion while sailing around in a prince.  No thanks.

[Teutonic]

Prince is fine the way it is.

but I think this is more of an issue with repairing meta, then with the ship.

[Socialism]

7 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Aren’t you two supposed to be shit-posting on the reddit threads?  That’s where the malcontents hang out and bitch about @admin  (From what I hear).  

Voicing concerns about ruining our immersion by altering a ship that might not be historically accurate sounds like a legit complaint to me.   

I like to get into a prince and sail around for hours and hours.  

Edited March 23, 2019 by Socialism

[Vernon Merrill]

My Prince is Teak/Teak with loodsman.  The issue is a brig going 32+ knots open world. 

[Vernon Merrill]

8 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

All I saw was a quote of some user comment. I'm interested in a real historical source reference. 

Yeah, the guy who captured the ship is “some user comment”....   Sod off SruPl

What I’m interested in is you not feeling the need to comment on every thread when you can’t be arsed to do some research first.   

 

[Vernon Merrill]

9 minutes ago, McKillen said:

I feel the basic cutter should get some 42pd carronades at least. Not for realism but for gameplay. The ship doesn’t have any chance against a frigate so i feel like it should be able to. Its just not fair that the ship i mainly sail in isn’t the same as it once was. I dont like it so change it for me, thanks.

Maybe you missed the part where it had 9 pounders on it when it was captured.  So many “captains” butt-hurt by a  simple suggestion based on historic record.  

Why are you all afraid of a 9 pounder schooner?

[admin]

10 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

After having spent another day chasing, and not catching, what I could possibly fight and not possibly fighting what I could actually catch, I have a suggestion:

 

all rare ships will be buffed. Especially prince

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

all rare ships will be buffed. Especially prince

[Barbancourt]

The game needs a lot less "buffing"

[Aerospace]

You need to adress the root of the problem. 

#UNLIMITED REPAIRS IN BATTLE INSTANCE#

2 repair mods stacked just kill all the fine sailing and skill. 

# Limit Repairs in Battle! 

[Tom Farseer]

Here's my two cents:

6 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

It looks like someone else is butthurt and doesn't come up with any real historical facts. So far from the historical record, we came to conclusions that the ship carried 18 guns and not 20 like in Naval Action (2 too many) and has oversized carronades (18pd and not 12pd). Here is the "Captain's Log" with information during event of her capture: 

According to threedecks and the book linked there ( British Warships in the Age of Sail 1793-1817: Design, Construction, Careers and Fates) the Prince carried 18 guns but was pierced for 22. So it does not carry too many guns in the game, just more than it had in that specific engagement.

6 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Maybe you missed the part where it had 9 pounders on it when it was captured.  So many “captains” butt-hurt by a  simple suggestion based on historic record.  

Why are you all afraid of a 9 pounder schooner?

It carried 6 long nine pounders and not 20. As long as we don't know that it could have carried a full battery of 9pd longs and still be seaworthy I'd be cautious in making such assumptions.

1 hour ago, Aerospace said:

You need to adress the root of the problem. 

#UNLIMITED REPAIRS IN BATTLE INSTANCE#

2 repair mods stacked just kill all the fine sailing and skill. 

# Limit Repairs in Battle! 

Two mods and/or books don't save you if you f*ck up badly enough. But I share your sentiment about repairs in batte in general. A lower limit should be placed. Repairing a ship from half dead to pristine condition is a bit much, even though you usually need a perk (expert carpenter) an upgrade (e.g. northern carpenters) and a book or two (I often run carpenter combat reports plus repairing).

[Sir Texas Sir]

12 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Got it....  so we can put these mythical death-ray "poods" on ships that never had them, but when it comes to smaller ships, its strictly fact-based....   ok, then.

I still think the poods should only be on Russian ships.  The pavel needs 18 in place of the 9’s.  Vick should only have 42lbs.  The rest of the 2-1rates the 36 lb.. hell I just want a set up with two decks of 32’s to be honest.  What we want isn’t always what we get.

10 hours ago, Sir John said:

Well, the pirate frigate should kill a prince.  If your prince isn't catching a trader's brig, either he isn't carrying anything and is completely speed modded or your prince is lo/wo and you want it to be 15kts

Are he was using his best wind which isn’t the princes.

10 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

My Prince is Teak/Teak with loodsman.  The issue is a brig going 32+ knots open world. 

And he was prob fir/fir with loads.  I drop stuff like crooked and other cheap speed mods on mine.  You know all you have to do is go directly with the wind and you out run a prince.  I done it fully loaded before.

[Njord]

4 hours ago, admin said:

all rare ships will be buffed. Especially prince

Since the Wapen von Hamburg is not a rare ship and being even weaker than before due to its large amount of low calibre guns that got nerfed, what will be its role in game other than a really expensive and slow fireship? Could at least give it some exceptional cargo capacity due to its history, as I suggested before...

Edited March 24, 2019 by Sovereign

[Sir Loorkon]

4 hours ago, admin said:

all rare ships will be buffed. Especially prince

Why do you want to buff all rare ships? They are the best ships of their class already. Some ships might need little tuning, but not all e.g. Bellona or Christian.

[Tom Farseer]

24 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

5 hours ago, admin said:

all rare ships will be buffed. Especially prince

Why do you want to buff all rare ships? They are the best ships of their class already. Some ships might need little tuning, but not all e.g. Bellona or Christian.

Very true. (though I'd say christian is not the strogest 2nd rate. Too squishy compared to Buc)

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I still think the poods should only be on Russian ships.  The pavel needs 18 in place of the 9’s.  Vick should only have 42lbs.  The rest of the 2-1rates the 36 lb.. hell I just want a set up with two decks of 32’s to be honest.  What we want isn’t always what we get.

couldnt agree more, if the devs want each ship to have its own spirit and something special about them they should lock french sols and santi to 36pd on gundeck and have the edinorogs  as only usable cannons on russian ships.. Dont know if they do, but the perfect balance is sometimes imbalance where some meta is always countered

[Mr. Doran]

I remember the days people cared to complain about the LeLssex.

[Aerospace]

4 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

wo mods and/or books don't save you if you f*ck up badly enough.

I would prefer "northern master carpenters"and"steel toolbox" or "sea service toolbox" and "carpenter combat reports  ? just rinse repeat for 1 hours 30 minutes, of course expert carpenter as perk.

Enough to survive 1:30 hours while slapping and sinking smaller ships which catch up, fixing broadside from 2 big ships is enough for smaller ships to sink.

I had a 1st rate battle recently, there were 3 enemies 1 bailed out quick, 1 buc was heavily damaged by my L'Ocean and he had to run. I was left with another L'Ocean and battle lasted 1:30 hours while I badly hurt enemy 1st rate, he repaired to full, he hurt me I repaired to about full. At last 8 minutes I was without hull repairs as I was intercepted on my to port, even in that condition the battle ended due to timer and I was about full hp. I had  Northern Master Carpenters+Carpenter combat reports and expert carpenter perk.

This is stupid system, if the captains knows how to battle in his 1st rate, it will be draw but may be only boarding victory which also needs several attempts. When one makes some mistakes, at some point there should be punishment, but this repair system just saves most mistakes.