Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Recommended Posts

Some numbers first.

We can craft 43 ships. 6 of them are traders. Consequently, 37 warships.

 

From those 37 warships, 20 requires a permit. 54% of the warships requires a permit.

From those 20 permits, 9 can only be earned by having luck opening a gold/captain/admiral chest. Consequently, 24% of the warships we can craft depends on RNG.

 

This means that we can open several chests and still dont get the permit we are looking for. As it is, the current system will lead to player frustration.

In Naval Action, the ships are our toons, and we want to sail the toons we like. This system based on RNG is just a HUGE mistake.

 

If you look at other mmos end game looting tables, the rewards often gave you a token item which allows you to exchange it for the stuff you want. No RNG.

 

 

Discuss.

 

Edited by Intrepido
  • Like 29

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If best ships are very rare they will become very valuable and most of players will refuse to risk them... and many battles wont take place.
This game was really funny when you were prone to enter en combat even if odds were against. Right know, with anonymous OW system, with no OW direct inter-player chat, with no inter-nation coordination, etc... many players prefer not to take risks.
And this makes this game less enjoyable and more boring.
Much more boring.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very Good Point.

I was also think that you need Vik Marks and Pvp Marks for the other 10 ships.

There are two ways to get permits. One is grinding Gold chest Missions against npcs of 1-3th rates and hopefully you dont get ganked.

Secondly do PvP. Either you just "spam" pvp in low class ships otherwise if you want to battle with 5th++ you need a very much more positive KDR to sustain youself with permits to accomendate for losses.IF we look only at crafted ships.

RN without the Hercules DLC or capturing some 5th rates for PvP the total amount of ships will decrease. At the moment people are swimming in ships and Materials but because permits are so rare at sime point the supply will dry out but maybe it wont happen before launch but if the system stays like this it will be aweful for launch when everbody is at zero. People will be so afraid to PvP with the ships that require premits that we go back to an avoid PvP style and only fight in throughaway ships of small classes.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lovec1990 said:

Ithink devs want too make sure people PvP by locking good ships behind permits well 1 new reason too go on Peace server

I dont have issues with permits behind the wall of the combat medals.

I have issues with the RNG of the chests.

Edited by Intrepido
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

I dont have issues with permits behind the wall of the combat medals.

I have issues with the RNG of the chests.

Last weekend we where screening the swedes from taking a uncontested port in the shallows and I lost my Reno.  I was like ok that should be a quick fix but I need to go hunt down woods now to test out see how hard it is to get them.   I go look to see what I need and notice I need a permit.  Go to check to see how many VM or CM I need......NO FREAKING PERMIT.   A lot of the permits are also missing cause suppose devs are doing some balance to them.   If that is so why not leave the old crafting none permit way in game until you get the balance done. I like the Reno on that char cause he has all the slots open and it actually isn't bad brawling cause it's tuff as nails copared to other shallows and you can run board fit and not hurt you so much on crew with marines.

So yah the permit thing needs to be looked at.  Also I lost 5 ships that day and cause of large group play even though I had gotten kills and assist I got zero CM's for my efforts.  Now I don't mind loosing some ships cause I need to clean out dock space and two of those where DLC ships I just slop cannons and random mods on, but the others where not ships I can just quickly replace:  USS Independence (Permit needed 3 VM's so will have to wait 2 more weeks to get one), Indiaman (easy to craft once I reset up econ so no issues in lost there) and Renomme (can't replace cause permit is not in game for CM/VM).   

Now I could make a Surprise for 4 CM's if I had them, but that would mean I would of had gotten enough damage out of the group to have gotten the few marks they won in the battles?   Guess what I didn't and well that means some one that gets into PvP once a week (prob less than that as I have to work all weekend).  Won't be able to easily replace there ships.   We haven't even gone in to any wood types.  I had gotten some cedar but that was lost when lost  the Indiaman, luckly the two other trade ships got away with the trade goods so I still made money on that trip out toe Bermuda as a test, but loosing a ship every time isn't going to be worth it so I'll have to do some late night early hour runs.  That isn't even a wood type I would use much so haven't tried to get any WO or Teak....I'm sure they will be pretty much pointless to get so I'll have to go for Making ships out of Oak and Fir or just buying notes........to me this econ patch effectively killed crafting for me or any one else that isn't living int he game 24/7.....as I can only craft 1 out of 5 ships I lost, 2 though I can redeem as DLC, but the game shouldn't be about redeemabels ships only.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The following should happen

1. ALL Permits should be available in the admiralty

2. each rate Except for 7th rates should have only 2 ships under Permit cost

3. for each class, one permit should cost doubloons, and the 2nd permit should cost combat medals

4. All Lineships Except the 3rd rate should have their permits cost ONLY victory marks. the 3rd Rate ship should cost Doubloons for it's permit

 

This insures a couple things.
A. no more RNG - each player knows for certain how to get each ship
B. Chests from rewards can still give permits - instead of relying on luck for a permit you want, you get a permit as a bonus.
C. Every player has every opportunity to sail a ship of each rate/class

 

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading these post, I just noticed that, since last patch, I am making so few PvP. It took for me too long to reasset economy. Lack of the ships I prefer to play (Niagara), even if I accepted to replace it by an oak/oak Cerberus, and not accepting to go to the ganking patrol... End of PvP.

Too many conditions to fill, too many things to accept that are not our first or favorite choices are sending PVP out of the game. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not sailing ships that do not need permits? I like the way permits are increasing the diversity of ships in OW. Every old player will start in DLC ships (Pandora) and craftable fir or oak ships after the wipe. I do not understand why this should be bad? Atm the changes can not work because lots of players have the old stuff in the docks and some compare the old (ship-)world with the new. That is obviously frustrating but leads to nothing.

The thing I would like to be changed is the way the leveling of knowledge slots works. Ship knowledge should be gained for the ship class, not for a single ship type. So if somebody gets a rare Bellona note, it should not be necessary to level the Bellona if this player has leveled up an other 3rd rate ship, the player should be able to use the knowledge of all 3rd rate ship types. If some permits are random and rare, why should I take the effort to level this ship type?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Why not sailing ships that do not need permits? I like the way permits are increasing the diversity of ships in OW. Every old player will start in DLC ships (Pandora) and craftable fir or oak ships after the wipe. I do not understand why this should be bad? Atm the changes can not work because lots of players have the old stuff in the docks and some compare the old (ship-)world with the new. That is obviously frustrating but leads to nothing.

The thing I would like to be changed is the way the leveling of knowledge slots works. Ship knowledge should be gained for the ship class, not for a single ship type. So if somebody gets a rare Bellona note, it should not be necessary to level the Bellona if this player has leveled up an other 3rd rate ship, the player should be able to use the knowledge of all 3rd rate ship types. If some permits are random and rare, why should I take the effort to level this ship type?

This change doesnt not increase OW diversity. It will promote exactly the opposite.

Right now most of the players are swimming on ships crafted before the wipe and the new changes to crafting so we arent seeing the consequences of this permit RNG nonsense.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

This change doesnt not increase OW diversity. It will promote exactly the opposite.

Right now most of the players are swimming on ships crafted before the wipe and the new changes to crafting so we arent seeing the consequences of this permit RNG nonsense.

What diversity will be reduced in your opinion? The „all Bellona diversity“? Sorry, but I can not follow you. The permits make exactly those ships rare that where commonly used because they have the best stats. So with the change all other ship types will have a chance to be used. Only very few (and those of the best ships) are RNG. I see no nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

And, as another consequence, half of the player base went to the PVE server. I don't think that this is promoting PVP...

The only thing that will promote PvP are more PvP players, not ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

The only thing that will promote PvP are more PvP players, not ships.

Imposing so many rules, conditions, limitations, blocking points, obliged ways of playing is just throwing away the part of PVP players who just want to specialise in one ship they appreciate. If this ship is Surprise, Renommee, Niagara and so many other, they just go out, waiting a change in law...

EDIT: At this moment, I should be playing Naval Action. But I Don't. I prefer staying in this forum, as so many, speaking about Naval Action, the Naval Action I should like to get, instead of playing the present Naval Action, the Naval Action that prétends to impose me the way of playing… Only my trading alt is playing, still afk for one couple of hours. :(:(:(  This is a so called "game"

Edited by Eleazar de Damas
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no clue why such changes, first, few months ago, all frigates were made to be easily craftable to get more "pvp" and now many of them requires permits which are not that easy to get .. Why this change ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Some numbers first.

We can craft 43 ships. 6 of them are traders. Consequently, 37 warships.

 

From those 37 warships, 20 requires a permit. 54% of the warships requires a permit.

From those 20 permits, 9 can only be earned by having luck opening a gold/captain/admiral chest. Consequently, 24% of the warships we can craft depends on RNG.

 

This means that we can open several chests and still dont get the permit we are looking for. As it is, the current system will lead to player frustration.

In Naval Action, the ships are our toons, and we want to sail the toons we like. This system based on RNG is just a HUGE mistake.

 

If you look at other mmos end game looting tables, the rewards often gave you a token item which allows you to exchange it for the stuff you want. No RNG.

 

 

Discuss.

 

Just curious, how many ships in each rate are available for crafting without RNG?

3 hours ago, Teutonic said:

The following should happen

1. ALL Permits should be available in the admiralty

2. each rate Except for 7th rates should have only 2 ships under Permit cost

3. for each class, one permit should cost doubloons, and the 2nd permit should cost combat medals

4. All Lineships Except the 3rd rate should have their permits cost ONLY victory marks. the 3rd Rate ship should cost Doubloons for it's permit

 

This insures a couple things.
A. no more RNG - each player knows for certain how to get each ship
B. Chests from rewards can still give permits - instead of relying on luck for a permit you want, you get a permit as a bonus.
C. Every player has every opportunity to sail a ship of each rate/class

 

This I can get behind. Good suggestions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, o7Captain said:

Why this change ?

Eco dudes want things to matter, as they say, and some RvR guys have asked that some ships, especially powerful ships, should be rare.

Why don't you guys go out in lesser ships and let the big clans and rich guys walk all over you with their better ships?

(I'm open to the idea of the current situation, actually, but I worry it's just going to be like the line over this one...)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Why don't you guys go out in lesser ships and let the big clans and rich guys walk all over you with their better ships?

Because, with the broken economy, even lesser ships are difficult to replace. They are there to be lost, we all agree, and casual players are there to be food for an handfull of vétérans.

Otherwise, how could they get the PVP marks to easily kill the future new players, if any?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Consequently, 24% of the warships we can craft depends on RNG.

All warships depend on rng: that of quality. 24% of the warships we can craft depend on RNG 2x !

And that is the real issue: first you need to be lucky to find the permit and than you need to be lucky not to get your 3/5 no trim out of that rare permit....

 

Edited by Jan van Santen
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also don't like the rng wall for permits, especially for the Renommee - it's the sentence of death for her.

Before the last changes she had a hard time against Surprise and especially the Hercules, but with her ability to bounce balls and her turn rate it was manageable. Now with the new damage model, which i really like, the last nerf of her turn rate and her permit behind the rng wall there is no good reason to sail her. She can't get away (and she was once the fastest of the 5th rates), she can't weather the damage and she can't outturn - and you can't replace the losses any more.

She was my all-time-favourite, but i don't think i will open any slots on her after release.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Eco dudes want things to matter, as they say, and some RvR guys have asked that some ships, especially powerful ships, should be rare.

Why don't you guys go out in lesser ships and let the big clans and rich guys walk all over you with their better ships?

(I'm open to the idea of the current situation, actually, but I worry it's just going to be like the line over this one...)

Even the richest guy in the server cant fight against RNG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

What diversity will be reduced in your opinion? The „all Bellona diversity“? Sorry, but I can not follow you. The permits make exactly those ships rare that where commonly used because they have the best stats. So with the change all other ship types will have a chance to be used. Only very few (and those of the best ships) are RNG. I see no nonsense.

Mate you dont get it.

Some people wont use a wappen permit even if you get RNG rewarded for it. Simply because it is not the ship they like to use.

 

This is a game, not real life in which we have to be ok with the things you receive, just because is the politically correct thing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Mate you dont get it.

Some people wont use a wappen permit even if you get RNG rewarded for it. Simply because it is not the ship they like to use.

 

 This is a game, not real life in which we have to be ok with the things you receive, just because is the politically correct thing.

...so why do they not trade them for the permits they want? You are right, I really do not get it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

...so why do they not trade them for the permits they want? You are right, I really do not get it.

You can not compare a rattlesnake heavy permit against a Christian VII one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...