The ultimate way to make a PvP opportunity and NPC aggression viable on PvE peace server

[PG Monkey]

11 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

I still have a hard time figuring whether you are being sarcastic or if this is some form of roleplay. In all honesty I would rather have an answer such as :

"This cannot be implemented within current schedule and resource allocation and would delay our release plans. We take note of this great suggestion and make a decision not to implement it in our current plans. We may consider adding it in the future."

This I can understand and accept without a problem. Not that nonsense I read above.

I think it's pretty easy to understand

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

26 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Bottom line is: if you want PvP, it can’t be purely “consensual”.

Bottom line to your bottom line is: it was not called PvP, it was called "duels". Should I elaborate on the difference in meaning?

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

13 minutes ago, jodgi said:

but I could click on the "duel?" button every 30 secs from Tortue to Tumbado. It would end bad.

Fake Info from your side.

Proposal had a ten minutes cooldown timer mentioned. It's no clickaway fest, if we ever had so many duel applicants lined up for this as in your nightmare. We don't.

[Vernon Merrill]

9 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Bottom line to your bottom line is: it was not called PvP, it was called "duels". Should I elaborate on the difference in meaning?

Are you fighting another "Player" as a "Player"...?   Please elaborate, oh wise one.....

[Nelson Hornblower]

55 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

I go on the peace server to relax and kill bots. I dont want to be pestered by people asking for duels. I go on the war server to pvp and pve

Simple solution, you put an icon in the box that allows you to attack that person. If I have it switched on, I'm assuming anyone can attack me if they have their's on. If I have it turned off, you can't attack me. 

POTBS had this with the two swords above the ship in OW, implement something similar and now two people can duel if they wish in PvE. 

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

8 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Are you fighting another "Player" as a "Player"...?   Please elaborate, oh wise one.....

PvP is a general concept, applied on all server or in some region of the map. And no choice as to participate or not.

My duel idea is toggled by game settings, thus not applied to everyone sailing around, and even if switched on, you can still say no.

Any more questions?

I understand you are no PvE Peace server player, so why bother about our affairs? Afraid you lose your "seals" for a clubbing?

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Just now, Nelson Hornblower said:

POTBS had this with the two swords above the ship in OW, implement something similar and now two people can duel if they wish in PvE. 

I heard about Pirates of the Black Sea having something similar.

I should say on this occasion, I did not know they have. I was no POTBS player except I downloaded it and went into tutorial intro, that's all I did there. My idea was born independently from POTBS content.

[Vernon Merrill]

3 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

PvP is a general concept, applied on all server or in some region of the map. And no choice as to participate or not.

My duel idea is toggled by game settings, thus not applied to everyone sailing around, and even if switched on, you can still say no.

Any more questions?

I understand you are no PvE Peace server player, so why bother about our affairs? Afraid you lose your "seals" for a clubbing?

Soooooo......  it's "PvP".  Got it.

[jodgi]

24 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

I understand you are no PvE Peace server player, so why bother about our affairs?

You know what? I think I understand Peace players a lot better than most War players. You want to do eco, build stuff and grind bots without interference or losing stuff you don't intend to lose. It's very clear cut to me.

War players are hard for me to understand. They want to do what you do with the added excitement of player interference. Most say they like the concept of loss but there are countless issues tied to people losing things. Ambivalent would be a euphemism, to me or looks more like a bipolar approach (the mind is made up but the emotions are opposed).

I find it extremely interesting that you want voluntary PvP duels. You want PvP only when you decide to. I don't scoff at this, truly, most War guys are like this. I guess that with eco and loss you are denied PvP unless you subject yourself to risk (ganks, revenge ganks, griefing...)?

I don't have a horse in this race as I'm not in the least interested in eco and loss. PvP is the only thing I want and I would opt out of eco, loss and the associated timidity at the drop of a hat.

[Macjimm]

1 hour ago, admin said:

You are not allowed to fight another man in the quiet library, nursery, or any other peaceful establishment EVEN if you both agree to do so. 
These are the rules. If you want to fight a duel over the matter of horses or any other matter - War server is such establishment

This response seems clear enough to me.  The attraction of the Peace server is not the absence of ganking, but is freedom from continual pestering, debating and trolling. Toxicity.  A library is a great analogy.

It makes sense that players who want modified PvP options should do it on the war server.   If optional PvP is added to the Peace server it will less likely remain a place free from negative human interaction.  

The war server already has lots of PvE and safe areas (Capital Zones).  Adding this option to the war server, (to be immune from attack), would be less drastic than adding PvP to the Peace server.

Adding PvP to the Peace server would alter it's essence.  It would change it into the PvE-optional-WAR server.

[Angus MacDuff]

It turns out that if you buy this game, you can have a character on both servers!   This means that when you want peace, you can go to one, and when you want war (PVP), you can go to the other!!  Who knew?!

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

23 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

It turns out that if you buy this game, you can have a character on both servers!   This means that when you want peace, you can go to one, and when you want war (PVP), you can go to the other!!  Who knew?!

Doesn't help. Your equipment, your character's rank, his money, skillbooks and warehouse content etc are different. Even the community is different in mindset.

Why this stupid black/white thinking?

PvP War server has seen this "grey toning" already with various attempts to protect noobs. Has this found the criticism of "either this or that" black/white thinking proponents who comment here? Nope.

So now give PvE Peace server also some "grey toning" which is perfectly done by my consensual duels concept. If PvP server can change and lean towards the other side in efforts to make life better for people who are not exactly the pro gankers, why is PvE server prohibited to do the same in opposite direction?

Edited March 20, 2019 by Cetric de Cornusiac

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

29 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

freedom from continual pestering, debating and trolling

You will see this in continuation with the duel idea being implemented, but switched off for you personally.

Wake up. It's not a nightmare you dream up, it's a chance for the server and its future. Another attraction feature.

We even don't have to change the name of the server. For people having it switched off, it will be "PvE" like always...

[Zlatkowar]

To all you PvP boiz : What's the point of ruining the debate on a PvE suggestion? Why so much aggression on a fine suggestion to make the game better for some, and add content and possibilities?

All I read here convinced me that it is not poor RvR/PvP balancing mechanisms, or total wipe, or even consensual PvP that will drive away players from PvP server, it is you, the players.

[Slim McSauce]

4 hours ago, Zlatkowar said:

To all you PvP boiz : What's the point of ruining the debate on a PvE suggestion? Why so much aggression on a fine suggestion to make the game better for some, and add content and possibilities?

All I read here convinced me that it is not poor RvR/PvP balancing mechanisms, or total wipe, or even consensual PvP that will drive away players from PvP server, it is you, the players.

They can't fathom that the War server could be the niche side show while Peace is the real MMO NA. If Peace can have fair opt in battles an duels, which is pretty much a guaranteed enjoyable battle because it's not a gank, along with having everything else like merchants, PVE privateers and other styles of play for their character, then what can War server offer besides pvp? Not much I'd say, but then again when you offer up your noobs to veteran pvpers on a daily basis how can you be surprised when you find there's only the veteran pvpers left and the 80% has moved elsewhere?

Edited March 20, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, Macjimm said:

The war server already has lots of PvE and safe areas (Capital Zones).  Adding this option to the war server, (to be immune from attack), would be less drastic than adding PvP to the Peace server.

Adding PvP to the Peace server would alter it's essence.  It would change it into the PvE-optional-WAR server.

You do know those zones have been said will be removed.  That is why your seeing a larger number of players going to the PvE server.  Folks don't want to PvP 24/7.  They want places to do some econ and level up, but they like the excitement of doing PvP but more on there own terms and when they are free.  Devs are slowly removing that more and more and not giveing a middle ground for both types of players.  They are basicly saying you are either totaly PvP or you are PvE.  Which means they should just remove all AI from PvP server.

Christ Roberston said something about this a while back for SC.  "The reason we are having 20% players and 80% AI is so that there is a balance and it's not just folks ganking others all the time.  You won't know what is AI and Player either.  The problem with PvP is there is always a winner and a looser. When your always the looser it's not fun any more and you stop playing the game.  We don't want to make it not fun so we are offering a larger ratio of AI over players so that PvP will be more of a rare thing in certain zones."   Something like this as they will have high sec and low sec areas in game so you can't just gank any one and do PvP every where.  This is an issue we have with this game.  We don't protect the majority of the players and they get killed, over and over until they stop playing or move over to the PvE server.  All the while we give more and more to the few toxic PvP players that constantly complain about lack of fights but refuse to fight each other.....they go out of there way to make the life of the casual/nobs there sole goal to kill for the most part.   That is not a healthy game and if they keep up with this we won't have a game no matter what all bells and whistles that the Devs will try to offer us.   You loose 80% of your players base which is casuals and the new plaeyrs than you have pretty much worse than what we have now.....hardly any one playing.

[Slim McSauce]

20 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Bottom line is: if you want PvP, it can’t be purely “consensual”.  Otherwise, there’s no reason for an OW.  

AHAHAHAHAHA, you're such a war server scrub. You don't even consider the possibility that the gank, speed capped gold ship meta loot zone lobby pvp server is trash and that's why enthusiasm is shifting away from it. Congratulations, you pvp fanatics have spoiled your own game driving out the average player, with no one to farm on you'll have to play with yourselves before coming over to PVE where the real MMO NA will be at, and not the pvp brats who whine more than anybody else.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Macjimm]

18 hours ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Wake up. It's not a nightmare you dream up, it's a chance for the server and its future. Another attraction feature

No need to be offensive.

  I'm not fear mongering  a nightmare, but pointing out  that many players have said they prefer the peace server so they can escape the toxic E-sport  types.  Perhaps rather than trying to change the peace server, you could encourage the Devs to add your proposed features to the war server.  Adding competition to the Peace server may attract the wrong type of player.

[Vernon Merrill]

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

AHAHAHAHAHA, you're such a war server scrub. You don't even consider the possibility that the gank, speed capped gold ship meta loot zone lobby pvp server is trash and that's why enthusiasm is shifting away from it. Congratulations, you pvp fanatics have spoiled your own game driving out the average player, with no one to farm on you'll have to play with yourselves before coming over to PVE where the real MMO NA will be at, and not the pvp brats who whine more than anybody else.

Hahaha.  Awww, Slim.  Are you feeling ignored and lashing out?  I get it. I mean nobody likes to be smacked down by authority figures, right?!  I almost feel bad that you’re trying to joint the cool kids over in the barren wasteland of Naval Action Reddit.  

And remember, no yelling in the library.  

 

Real talk:  there are ways to present ideas on the forums without being offensive and calling the devs hard work “trash”...  I may disagree with the OP’s idea, but at least HE  presented it well.  

[Lovec1990]

On 3/19/2019 at 12:15 PM, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

It has been stated before: the Idea of "consensual duel" is very popular on PvE Peace Server, given the precondition players still stay safe all the time in open world. Or else it would not be PvE Peace Server, the place to enjoy "calm, tranquility, relaxation", any more.

Some players resent the idea of consensual duel or NPC being entitled to become aggressive and attack them when AI smells a chance of success. I was looking forward to the latter, but as this part of admin's announcement has been crossed out, it seems it will not get implemented. Or maybe it could, while everybody is kept happy?

In the first place, those dissenters need to be assured they won't get bothered by attacks they don't want. So this asks for a switch.

A switch would have to be installed in game settings which regulates two things:

(a) On/Off settings for being able to be asked by other nationals for a duel in OW. They still can decline the offer and nothing will happen (cool-down time ten minutes).

(b) On/Off settings for NPC enemy either seeing this player as a viable target in OW for aggression or ignoring him completely.

--

I can further imagine the 'consensual duel' setting being diversified for a sub-option, which determines whether this duel will be fought by this player with all bloody consequences (you can lose your ship by getting sunk or captured by your opponent) or it will be mock duels with ships staying intact afterwards, like in tournaments we had. With this sub-option, it becomes necessary to give two infos about this player in OW encounters: if he is open for duel and if he had chosen full duel risk in his settings. Simple: a red crossed pistols/swords symbol or a white crossed pistol/swords symbol in one corner of his sighting window for risk, or no risk involved. A player will only be able to duel other nationals who chose the same setting. For example, a player with a white crossed pistol/swords symbol (no risk) will not be able to fight another with a red symbol. In addition we can agree on nationals of the same side (like two Frenchmen) only being able to do white crossed pistol/swords duels. Even if one of them or both have the red symbol set, their OW duel agreements still will be executed following the rules for risk-free, damage-free, non-capturable fights. Maybe exclude pirates for their lawless scum life conditions . Let's not forget: even with a red full risk symbol set you can decline the duel. Nobody is being forced.

Make this consensual duel on PvE Peace Server so, that battle immediately closes and nobody else can enter, also no group. It is a duel, not a fleet battle.

--

Meanwhile, the setting for NPC aggression regulates your general safety in Open World. Afk sailing will be possible with aggression being set to off and no attack will happen, player stays invisible to NPC fleets, while he still can initiate combat from his side as always. However, if you set your account to aggressive NPC, you have to look out for stronger NPC formations of other nations which see you as weak enough to try an attack. What would be nice is, if they capture your ship during their attack, it will not disappear after battle but really get incorporated into that NPC flotilla, so players can try to capture it back later (have it repaired by AI and crewed up after battle so it is not too weak in next battle), until next maintenance when all NPC traffic will be reset and the captured ex-player-ship will finally disappear and cannot get retrieved any more.

--

To spice the whole thing up a bit, a duel leaderboard on PvE Peace Server would record the outcome of duels and do an evaluation of the battle performance. If duels would get announced like a few days or weeks before, in form of an "scheduled" entry on that board, other players could even bet who will win and who will lose, with effects on their bid (losing it or winning a profit).

For the PvP War Server community: all this helps train unexperienced PvE players in fighting players without forcing them to leave the server, so you may hope they like it so much you later will see them enter your ganker's world more likely.

All others have more fun on PvE Peace Server while peace is preserved at all times. Nobody will unwillingly see a disadvantage, because if he does, he has agreed to it by having set the preconditions himself.

 

Sadly both options would be hard to implement that each player can turn it off. Second duel idea is nice but i belive it may couse population loss on PvP server becouse PvP will be allowed in controled maner 

[Zlatkowar]

2 hours ago, Macjimm said:

Perhaps rather than trying to change the peace server, you could encourage the Devs to add your proposed features to the war server. 

You seem to think that we are possibly hesitating to move to war server, and that this feature would make us all switch over on your side. It is not the case. I don't care what happens on war server, I will not set foot there. This is a request coming from a PvE crowd, for the PvE server. If devs see an opportunity to bring positive changes to war server along the way, then they definitely should make it happen. But the initial idea is meant to be applied to peace server as an opportunity for more content.

And for the smart boiz posting PvE server description as a way to dismiss the validity of this idea, keep in mind that we are talking about consensual gentlemen's duels, as in mutual agreement, for the sport. Which totally respects below description : 

- No negative interaction with human players
- Great place for friendly peaceful gameplay

Mutual agreement is key to understand this idea.

[Bull Hull]

On 3/20/2019 at 8:38 AM, Vernon Merrill said:

Sounds like you should invest a few million of your hard-earned dollars and open a game development company so that you can create the game YOU want.  

With all the “choice”, “rights” and “lack of manipulation” you can handle....

What adults do when something stop being enjoyable to them is stop doing it...  instead of throwing a tantrum.  

Or just stay in the nursery, as admin says. 

 

Bottom line is: if you want PvP, it can’t be purely “consensual”.  Otherwise, there’s no reason for an OW.  

LOL  Yeah, right, creating my own game development company is the only option.  Nice try with the lame false dilemma and preposterous red herring.

And naturally the best you can manage is to resort to making a childish ad hominem attack to fabricate a lame genetic fallacy.  The only non-adult here is the person who is resorting to the pathetic tactic of making childish ad hominem attacks.  Get back to me if you figure out how to produce a rational explanation for exactly how I am supposedly not an adult and how I am supposedly throwing a tantrum.  Get back to me if you figure out how to produce a cogent counterargument.  When you people put all of your effort into attacking the messenger instead of the message you only prove that you have nothing.

Your bottom line is patently false and laughably poor circular reasoning.  Nice try with another ridiculous false dilemma.

[Angus MacDuff]

13 minutes ago, Bull Hull said:

And naturally the best you can manage is to resort to making a childish ad hominem attack to fabricate a lame genetic fallacy.  The only non-adult here is the person who is resorting to the pathetic tactic of making childish ad hominem attacks.

That's an ad hominem attack...just sayin...

[Vernon Merrill]

I feel like I’m talking to a recent college graduate with a undergraduate philosophy degree who learned a few big words and catch phrases here....  

red herrings and false dichotomies.  Oh myyyyy.   

Ypu have your opinion mate.  I have mine.  

[Macjimm]

2 hours ago, Zlatkowar said:

You seem to think that we are possibly hesitating to move to war server, and that this feature would make us all switch over on your side

Absolutely not.  I do not think PvE players want to move, or should move, to the war server.   I think many peace server players seek to avoid the war server.

I don't have a side.

There is a variety of personalities who prefer the peace server, and some are there to avoid the competitive mindsets of the war server.  

Players who are trying add PvP to the Peace server might create less grief if they would try to change the war server - to include their proposed changes. 

Confine PvP to the war server and keep the Peace server tranquil.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Macjimm