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Cetric de Cornusiac

The ultimate way to make a PvP opportunity and NPC aggression viable on PvE peace server

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It has been stated before: the Idea of "consensual duel" is very popular on PvE Peace Server, given the precondition players still stay safe all the time in open world. Or else it would not be PvE Peace Server, the place to enjoy "calm, tranquility, relaxation", any more.

Some players resent the idea of consensual duel or NPC being entitled to become aggressive and attack them when AI smells a chance of success. I was looking forward to the latter, but as this part of admin's announcement has been crossed out, it seems it will not get implemented. Or maybe it could, while everybody is kept happy?

The-Duel-40cm-x-30cm-Oil-on-Canvas-Board

In the first place, those dissenters need to be assured they won't get bothered by attacks they don't want. So this asks for a switch.

A switch would have to be installed in game settings which regulates two things:

(a) On/Off settings for being able to be asked by other nationals for a duel in OW. They still can decline the offer and nothing will happen (cool-down time ten minutes).

(b) On/Off settings for NPC enemy either seeing this player as a viable target in OW for aggression or ignoring him completely.

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I can further imagine the 'consensual duel' setting being diversified for a sub-option, which determines whether this duel will be fought by this player with all bloody consequences (you can lose your ship by getting sunk or captured by your opponent) or it will be mock duels with ships staying intact afterwards, like in tournaments we had. With this sub-option, it becomes necessary to give two infos about this player in OW encounters: if he is open for duel and if he had chosen full duel risk in his settings. Simple: a red crossed pistols/swords symbol or a white crossed pistol/swords symbol in one corner of his sighting window for risk, or no risk involved. A player will only be able to duel other nationals who chose the same setting. For example, a player with a white crossed pistol/swords symbol (no risk) will not be able to fight another with a red symbol. In addition we can agree on nationals of the same side (like two Frenchmen) only being able to do white crossed pistol/swords duels. Even if one of them or both have the red symbol set, their OW duel agreements still will be executed following the rules for risk-free, damage-free, non-capturable fights. Maybe exclude pirates for their lawless scum life conditions :) . Let's not forget: even with a red full risk symbol set you can decline the duel. Nobody is being forced.

Make this consensual duel on PvE Peace Server so, that battle immediately closes and nobody else can enter, also no group. It is a duel, not a fleet battle.

--

Meanwhile, the setting for NPC aggression regulates your general safety in Open World. Afk sailing will be possible with aggression being set to off and no attack will happen, player stays invisible to NPC fleets, while he still can initiate combat from his side as always. However, if you set your account to aggressive NPC, you have to look out for stronger NPC formations of other nations which see you as weak enough to try an attack. What would be nice is, if they capture your ship during their attack, it will not disappear after battle but really get incorporated into that NPC flotilla, so players can try to capture it back later (have it repaired by AI and crewed up after battle so it is not too weak in next battle), until next maintenance when all NPC traffic will be reset and the captured ex-player-ship will finally disappear and cannot get retrieved any more.

--

To spice the whole thing up a bit, a duel leaderboard on PvE Peace Server would record the outcome of duels and do an evaluation of the battle performance. If duels would get announced like a few days or weeks before, in form of an "scheduled" entry on that board, other players could even bet who will win and who will lose, with effects on their bid (losing it or winning a profit).

For the PvP War Server community: all this helps train unexperienced PvE players in fighting players without forcing them to leave the server, so you may hope they like it so much you later will see them enter your ganker's world more likely.

All others have more fun on PvE Peace Server while peace is preserved at all times. Nobody will unwillingly see a disadvantage, because if he does, he has agreed to it by having set the preconditions himself.

 

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Seems like a very great idea, but they will have to shutdown the PVP server, cause most population will switch to PVE.

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This has potential, PVers want their play uninterrupted from hunters and gankers, with the choice of aggressive AI which is good PVE content and adds an element of danger you can opt in for, for possibly more rewards. PVPers get the same consentual duels they're use to having, and if you want the ganks there's always war server. It actually puts perspective into the world that not everyone is a combatant, some people are merchants, some are privateers, some just want to grind out ships slots for later, or have duels without the risk of finding yourself in a unwinnable battle where you lose everything. You can play exactly how you want to and no one's forcing you into something else.

The best unintended consequence of this I think is that pirates could actually mean something in this sort of server environment. If pirates really have a bit of lee-way from these rules, it could actually make them the real pirates that we come to know and expect, lawless individuals. Given the right ruleset, ya know no RVR, certain ships only, no SOL's then this could make for an interesting dynamic between pirates vs everyone else, because let's face it everybody hates rats. No more hilariously tone deaf pirate nation, if you break the rules, you become a pirate and your forced to play as such, and that's to prevent you from breaking the laws of the sea, but of course you can choose this path and play in true hardcore fashion.

Brilliant. I love this idea. I think this is very much in the spirit of the Peace server as a server will some rules and regulations, and if you break those you become the outlaw, depraved and universally hunted by the law abiding citizen privateers and National members of the Navies, as appose to the War server which is a bloodbath and all out chaos. I would make the switch for this, not because it's safer but because by adding a bit of order to the ROE, you create the ability to break that order which you can compartmentalize into a section of gameplay, while the PVP War server remains to be wildly lawless and out of control with little remorse.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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19 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

Seems like a very great idea, but they will have to shutdown the PVP server, cause most population will switch to PVE.

Population wandering movements are happening all the time, in both directions. With or without my proposal. A more attractive PvE Peace Server keeps players in Naval Action who otherwise would drop off the boat completely, so it is still better for devs to have an attractive alternative like our server than none at all.

The consensual duel thing is like a golden bridge to think about a return to War Server, some time later after a frustrated leave.

Edited by Cetric de Cornusiac
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6 minutes ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

Population wandering movements are happening all the time, in both directions. With or without my proposal. A more attractive PvE Peace Server keeps players in Naval Action who otherwise would drop off the boat completely, so it is still better for devs to have an attractive alternative like our server than none at all.

The consensual duel thing is like a golden bridge to think about a return to War Server, some time later after a frustrated leave.

I do agree with you guys. But it will not happen, this is what developers do not want. I know very difficult to understand, but their dream is different and no body knows what really their dream is :) 

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13 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

this is what developers do not want.

you don't know that this game is the first of it's specific genre there's no basis to believe that the developers have a plan for what to do with it, this sort of change to Peace server could take months to complete, as much as PVE could use this the War server is in need of desperate repair and testing. Another re-write, another whole new set of problems. But hey who knows this could also be 100% what the game needs to reach 2k daily players again, if that's what will reach a larger demographic of people who may not of liked what the rules are on either the war or peace server.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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5 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

s much as PVE could use this the War server is in need of desperate repair and testing. Another re-write, another whole new set of problems. But hey who knows this could also be 100% what the game needs to reach 2k daily players again, if that's what will reach a larger demographic of people who may not of liked what the rules are on either the war or peace server.

I do agree %100, this kind of change is needed. These easy to achieve improvements many advices from people including you, have not seen it being valued by developers. Some things happen, you need months posting here, polling, posting, and may be a little chance it get's noticed.

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42 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

Seems like a very great idea, but they will have to shutdown the PVP server, cause most population will switch to PVE.

Causing the PvP server to lose players to PvE shouldn't stop them from doing this. If anything, this idea probably gains more players, which puts money into their pocket. By focusing on the players who can spend 8 hours a day, 7 days a week playing on PvP is not how this game can succeed long term. The idea proposed is very similar to POTBS, where you could toggle on/off if you wanted to PvP. 

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Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

but wait, aren't there still cannons and large pitted battles still happen in peace server? What exactly would change for the PVE'rs tranquil experience if they had the option to opt in to consensual pvp, wouldn't that be a win-win?

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I spend most of my time on the PVE server - I hereby confirm my approval of consensual (only) PVP on the PVE server. I do not believe it will affect the atmosphere at all.

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33 minutes ago, admin said:

Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

optional AI aggressiveness wouldn't 'ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience' of a kind of players while pleasing another.

But I guess it is also a matter of dev priorities.

Edited by LeBoiteux

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

Big mistake.

The idea is very good, i would like npc agressions in PVE Server.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

Uh oh.  Time for some bluntly truthful honesty.  Let's see how well it goes over. . .

Nonsense.  As in not if the ONLY way to get attacked by another player is if and ONLY if a player proactively CHOOSES to become a target to other players by turning on a simple yes/no toggle that permits them to opt into being an eligible target to other players.  As in not if the ONLY way to get attacked by the ai is if and ONLY if a player proactively CHOOSES to become a target to the ai by turning on a simple yes/no toggle that permits them to be a target to the ai.  You are willfully ignoring the relevant facts, truths and realities of the suggestion to rationalize the position you prefer.  Nice try with that straw man and red herring.

The inconvenient fact/truth/reality you are willfully ignoring is that permitting players to freely and proactively make this CHOICE necessarily means it would be IMPOSSIBLE to ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience of those players who want a relaxing and tranquil experience because they will leave those toggles off and thus it would be IMPOSSIBLE for another player or ai to attack them.  Thus the ONLY players who could or would get attacked by other players and/or the ai would be the players who want that to happen by freely choosing to opt into that possibility.

Personally, I would gladly opt into being a target to foreign ai IF I had the FREEDOM to make that proactive CHOICE verses being manipulated into that kind of semi-hostile environment.

Personally, I would gladly opt into being a target to other players I had the FREEDOM to make that proactive CHOICE verses being manipulated into that kind of overtly hostile environment.

Don't insult our intelligence with such transparent rationalizations that ignore inconvenient facts, truths, and realities.

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8 hours ago, admin said:

Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

Put the PvP in an instance (arena...) and also some PvPvE like many other sucessfull MMO's (Guild Wars, Runes of Magic, Neverwinter...) did and you have happy players and a commercial success.

It's beyond me why large parts of the potential of NA remain unused. Are you saving up for NA2 ??

Edited by Jan van Santen
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8 minutes ago, Bull Hull said:

Uh oh.  Time for some bluntly truthful honesty.  Let's see how well it goes over. . .

Nonsense.  As in not if the ONLY way to get attacked by another player is if and ONLY if a player proactively CHOOSES to become a target to other players by turning on a simple yes/no toggle that permits them to opt into being an eligible target to other players.  As in not if the ONLY way to get attacked by the ai is if and ONLY if a player proactively CHOOSES to become a target to the ai by turning on a simple yes/no toggle that permits them to be a target to the ai.  You are willfully ignoring the relevant facts, truths and realities of the suggestion to rationalize the position you prefer.  Nice try with that straw man and red herring.

The inconvenient fact/truth/reality you are willfully ignoring is that permitting players to freely and proactively make this CHOICE necessarily means it would be IMPOSSIBLE to ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience of those players who want a relaxing and tranquil experience because they will leave those toggles off and thus it would be IMPOSSIBLE for another player or ai to attack them.  Thus the ONLY players who could or would get attacked by other players and/or the ai would be the players who want that to happen by freely choosing to opt into that possibility.

Personally, I would gladly opt into being a target to foreign ai IF I had the FREEDOM to make that proactive CHOICE verses being manipulated into that kind of semi-hostile environment.

Personally, I would gladly opt into being a target to other players I had the FREEDOM to make that proactive CHOICE verses being manipulated into that kind of overtly hostile environment.

Don't insult our intelligence with such transparent rationalizations that ignore inconvenient facts, truths, and realities.

Well since you're gonna be a bit uppity about "choice", lets talk about it for a second...  What you're doing by making the "choice" to play on the PvE server is removing a "choice" from another player to have additional content by attacking you.

What make you guys so special that only you are allowed to make the "choice" as to who and what to engage?   Stop making the "choice" to remove MY content.

If you want to take the risks inherent with PvP, then grow a pair and get on the PvP server.

Otherwise you're just asking to have your cake and eat it too.  And nobody likes greedy bastards.

There's a few convenient facts, truths and realities for you.

 

P.S.--have you opened that 4th slot on your Pirate Refit LGV yet??

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36 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Well since you're gonna be a bit uppity about "choice", lets talk about it for a second...  What you're doing by making the "choice" to play on the PvE server is removing a "choice" from another player to have additional content by attacking you.

What make you guys so special that only you are allowed to make the "choice" as to who and what to engage?   Stop making the "choice" to remove MY content.

If you want to take the risks inherent with PvP, then grow a pair and get on the PvP server.

Otherwise you're just asking to have your cake and eat it too.  And nobody likes greedy bastards.

There's a few convenient facts, truths and realities for you.

 

P.S.--have you opened that 4th slot on your Pirate Refit LGV yet??

Sounds like you're just nervous that if implemented, this would make the Peace server more popular then the War server because most people would prefer pvp by choice then always being at risk of being ganked and losing everything on the war server.

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19 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Sounds like you're just nervous that if implemented, this would make the Peace server more popular then the War server because most people would prefer pvp by choice then always being at risk of being ganked and losing everything on the war server.

 It's all ready starting to be more popular.   Them going extreme hardcore and removing things are going to turn off the casuals that are heading over there. They had more players on the other night in US prime time than PvP did, they have never had more players before so that is telling you something and I don't think it's the no wipe thing, cause wouldn't alot of people be starting pretty much fresh if they haven't been playing over there?  I honestly think a PvP/Light server would get the most players where  you have optional (flag only) PvP.  NA:L failed so we know folks don't want just straight PvP.  They want content and story and more content.  Not gank fights by a buch of guys with no life that won't fight each other but think jumping casuals and newbs makes them the elite special players.

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Slim, are you really still here after getting bitch-slapped by admin and begging for your life....?  And are you taking over for Banished on the need to comment on EVERY thread?

Stay in your lane.

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2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Slim, are you really still here after getting bitch-slapped by admin and begging for your life....?  And are you taking over for Banished on the need to comment on EVERY thread?

Stay in your lane.

many laughs were had, thanks.
You should keep it on topic, and please resist the urge to call me out when all I'm doing is posting on the forums.
Thanks again.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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7 hours ago, admin said:

Thank you for the proposal. 
There are no plans to bring combat PvP to peace server. Peace server is friendly and helpful. Any form of conflict will ruin the relaxing and tranquil experience.

🤣

Oh my... I was about to say that I fully support the idea... I was also about to say that if the "on/off" idea is not viable for whatever reason, one alternative may be to make the AI hostile in patrol area only... But anyway. We got our answer. That settles it.

I am so amazed by this answer that I feel the need to edit my post. You know what? NPC fleet roaming around me like sharks are making me anxious and are ruining my relaxation and my tranquility. Please remove all NPC fleet. 🤣

Edited by Zlatkowar
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8 hours ago, Ortac said:

I spend most of my time on the PVE server - I hereby confirm my approval of consensual (only) PVP on the PVE server. I do not believe it will affect the atmosphere at all.

I like the idea of agreed duels, but:

It will bring the possibility of "1v1 me then", to "proove a point". 

Alias "you're not even gonna duel me, carebear". 

I do think it would have some negative impact on the peaceful pve atmosphere.

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2 hours ago, Liq said:

I like the idea of agreed duels, but:

It will bring the possibility of "1v1 me then", to "proove a point". 

Alias "you're not even gonna duel me, carebear". 

I do think it would have some negative impact on the peaceful pve atmosphere.

If it's just 1v1's then what's the point, what actually would be complain about besides no one wanting to pvp them? maybe you're too good at the game, maybe you've accumulate so much skill at the game that there is no respecting duel that could be had where the less skilled player had a chance at ever sinking out, which would mean you'd find people more commonly up to your skill to fight, otherwise the war server has the pvp you want.

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