Revert to old RoE (and adjust patrol RoE)

[Socialism]

I miss the 3 min battle timers.  2 was a little short.  I haven’t tested the current battles, but it seems like they are still a gank fest   

That said I think the most “fair” to both sides is when the battles were closer to 5 mins.  That way both sides could get a little help, but it had to be immediate.

Players need to accept the fact that you will....Get ganked, lose ships and be in unfair battles.  

[Tiedemann]

On 3/18/2019 at 3:47 PM, Aerospace said:

You are in a Bellona (500BR ) getting tagged by 1 fast Hercules (110 BR) and 1 Endymion (280 BR) that makes you 500 BR vs them 390 BR, let me put 1 more LRQ into enemy team (100BR). They just keep rigging damage on you, stern raking you. What is the BR now your 500 against their 490 and 15 minutes later a speed fitted boarding Victory will join the enemy. Nobody will come help you, battle will close in few minutes, it is game over in admin's fair fight and more pvp fantasy.

This is already started to be used by some PVP clans, I assure you it will be the Meta. So gank squads are happier than ever, because they know if they keep enemy long in battle, their big brother is on the way to finish the job. (I was the victim twice and it is already happening)

I think this is a bit of topic = sorry! But if the Bellona scenario is real, then that's a serious issue imo. So when it is 490BR vs 500BR, the 10 BR opening will allow a 800 BR ship join that side? 
What happens then?

If it opens for entry on the 500BR side, I'm impresses and think this is a very good working mechanic. But it instant closes for both sides, then that's a bit broken.. Right!?
And if this is the case wtf are the gankers crying about? xD 

 

EDIT: TESTED: 2 ship 800 BR vs 1 ship 900 BR and the battle closed instantly, so Bellona scenario was just BS.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Tiedemann

[van Veen]

1 hour ago, Aerospace said:

You are in a Bellona (500BR ) getting tagged by 1 fast Hercules (110 BR) and 1 Endymion (280 BR) that makes you 500 BR vs them 390 BR, let me put 1 more LRQ into enemy team (100BR). They just keep rigging damage on you, stern raking you. What is the BR now your 500 against their 490 and 15 minutes later a speed fitted boarding Victory will join the enemy. Nobody will come help you, battle will close in few minutes, it is game over in admin's fair fight and more pvp fantasy.

This is already started to be used by some PVP clans, I assure you it will be the Meta. So gank squads are happier than ever, because they know if they keep enemy long in battle, their big brother is on the way to finish the job. (I was the victim twice and it is already happening)

You said it happened to you, and I believe you. However, I think you made up that example and it did not really happen with that combination of ships and BR. Correct?

The 20mins timer is closed as soon as the BR is close to equal with a certain margin. 490 vs 500 should close immediately. And that is the point. As soon as there is a quasi-equal BR, the battle is closed. If the solo Bellona is handled well it has a very good chance of success. 

I think the point is not the time, but the threshold margin that decides what is considered equal and what ships may join. 

Edited March 18, 2019 by van Veen

[Aerospace]

2 hours ago, van Veen said:

You said it happened to you, and I believe you. However, I think you made up that example and it did not really happen with that combination of ships and BR. Correct?

The 20mins timer is closed as soon as the BR is close to equal with a certain margin. 490 vs 500 should close immediately. And that is the point. As soon as there is a quasi-equal BR, the battle is closed. If the solo Bellona is handled well it has a very good chance of success. 

I think the point is not the time, but the threshold margin that decides what is considered equal and what ships may join. 

Of course that example is on extreme what can happen

What happened to me I was fighting a Vic and focus on fighting him, another Vic joined just before 20 minutes was over. So my ship had 900 Br and Vic had 800 Br, so it became 900 vs 1600 and battle closed due to 20 minutes. I thought we were dueling silly me  

So I mean if this ROE stays, every group will start using it for their favour. Anyway I tell you, there is big problem with this ROE, I am do not think admin will adress it correctly and it will hurt the game.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Aerospace

[Bull Hull]

Actually, the OP can't be more wrong.  The fact/truth/reality is that ships from way farther away than 2-3 minutes could provide help to any friendly ship that needed help.  Line of sight to the horizon is purely a function of height. Thus line of sight to another ship over the horizon is also purely a function of height.  Thus:

- From standing in a sloop six feet above the water visual range to another sloop with both sails down would be approx. 5.98 nautical miles (i.e. about 2.99 miles to the horizon).  That means help is around one hour away if the help has an average speed of 12 knots.

- A lookout 100 feet above the water has a line of sight to the horizon of 12.2 nautical miles (19.6 km), or about 24.4 nautical miles (39.2 km) to another ship of similar height.  That means help is around 3.2-4 hours away with an average speed of around 10-12 knots.

- Our visual range in OW of something around 12-15 km, and thus the visual range to friendly ships who might need help, is actually considerably less than it would be in the real world for most of the ships we use.

Thus, when considering the time compression we have in OW where our speeds can easily be 2-3 times normal it is actually quite reasonable to get help from ships within 20-30 minutes of OW sailing time or more depending upon the class of ship.  Consequently, an open battle window of only 2-3 minutes is grossly unrealistic even for the smallest ships that have a visual range of way more then 2-3 minutes of sailing time.

[Liq]

1 hour ago, Bull Hull said:

when considering the time compression we have in OW where our speeds can easily be 2-3 times normal it is actually quite reasonable to get help from ships within 20-30 minutes of OW sailing time or more

Sorry but nope

In 30 min OW sailing, you can get from KPR way past Mortimer town. On that distance you shouldnt be able to help out, unless you're in a fallout connie

Compare 30 min OW sailing to battle sailing and voila.

[HachiRoku]

I agree with this fully. Ganking is no issue but revenge ganking is an issue because of time compression and communication. I don't understand the ROE patches. Patrol zones still favor the zerg and open sea battle timers just makes no sense. The 2 minute timer was good and made sense. @admin said himself it was visual range of the battle. This should apply to the whole open sea game. Just have patrols like the old pvp zone around la navass was. It was not perfect but it was better. 

[HachiRoku]

On 3/18/2019 at 1:01 PM, Teutonic said:

Personally I enjoy what we currently have.

I really dislike it because sometimes I don't want to be disturbed when attacking a larger force. If someone wants to, they can attack a larger ship and wait for reinforcements. I know it goes both ways but it really only favors the zerg right? In real life it would not matter if GB had the largest navy in the world if a single pirate ship decided to attack one of their traders. 

Edited March 19, 2019 by HachiRoku

[van Veen]

13 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

sometimes I don't want to be disturbed when attacking a larger force.

Then you should switch to single player mode!  

[Mr. Doran]

14 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

The 2 minute timer was good and made sense. @admin said himself it was visual range of the battle. This should apply to the whole open sea game.

BUT expaaaaaanding grOWing battles like EVE xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD >:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD))))))))))))))))))))))!!!!!!!!!!

[HachiRoku]

3 hours ago, Mr. Doran said:

BUT expaaaaaanding grOWing battles like EVE xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD >:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD))))))))))))))))))))))!!!!!!!!!!

I don't get it. Maybe cause I'm retarded or just exhausted. 

[jodgi]

8 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I don't get it. Maybe cause I'm retarded or just exhausted. 

20 min timers to move away from OW and towards mechanics from a space game with tractor beams and hyperdrive.

If it works with space ships it must work with sail ships...