Revert to old RoE (and adjust patrol RoE)

[Liq]

After reading through @Hullabaloo 's thread"In defence of ganking" (cant link on mobile)

Suggesting to revert to the regular 2 or 3 min join timer RoE.

Fair battles are nice. But after all, it IS a MMO where, in the largest Part of the map, you should only get to fight what you see (OW timer of about 2 to 3 minutes simulates only nearby ships could help). Ganking deserves to exist, however IMHO not in the form of revenge fleets or what not. If noone was able to reach your battle in 3 minutes, he was, due to OW speed boost, just never realisticly gonna make it there anway.

In parallel I propose to add a longer invisibility and Speed boost after leaving a battle, combined with a 5min ish "you cannot ATTACK."

current OW RoE could be applied for patrol zone though. I find it kind of amusing that the place that is supposed to have the most balanced RoE has the least balanced one. Right now, you can still join a 2v2 in patrol with a fleet of 8+ ships on one side 25 min into the battle. Whereas the current OW RoE only make it possible to join the weaker side - which also would lead to slowly growing battles.

Tl;dr:

• Revert regular OW RoE back to 2 or 3 min join timer
• Increase speed boost and invisibility, AND "you cannot attack" after battle
• Apply current OW RoE to patrol zone

Edited March 18, 2019 by Liq

[Thonys]

(?)it was 3 minutes in ow

they changed it to 2 minutes.

 

the patrol zone can be 2 minutes. 

ow, 3-5 minutes would be better. 

speed boost and invisibility is sufficient atm

 

in general:

locked nation choice is a restriction were i am not a fan off (it kills the effort to hunt or doing battle)

i am not a fan of restrictions in general.(the game is(becomes) to complicated by all his restrictions and special ROE)

if you see a battle it disappears, or cannot participate or join a side or there is something else..(?)
 

development is encouraging pvp, but on the other side they restrict is by rules who are not important for players when they want to achieve something that's important to them.

it's a restriction what in itself is a contradiction in the effort to make the game working for everyone

 

the 20-minute rule is way too long, and the 2 minutes is to short.

i think we need a 1 general rule of ROE :  my suggestion is 3 minutes for patrol zone and

5 minutes for OW.

and get rid of the BR rule

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Thonys

[Teutonic]

Personally I enjoy what we currently have.

[Liq]

@Thonys the patrol area is a place where you are supposed to get nice fights - current OW roe would do work great for that

As for the rest, yeah OW should be gank, get ganked and deal with it

[Thonys]

15 minutes ago, Liq said:

@Thonys the patrol area is a place where you are supposed to get nice fights - current OW roe would do work great for that

As for the rest, yeah OW should be gank, get ganked and deal with it

yes, but some areas have fast waters with huge distances (time-consuming)

something that is not calculated (timewise) in certain areas

and is making problems for those who can use some help sometimes.

if the other island is 1 minute away(danced arias) it is no problem to get help or make shelter 

but if an island is 10 minutes away ....well you get the answer...2 minutes is nothing

 

ps. i deal on my own terms not yours

Edited March 18, 2019 by Thonys

[Liq]

2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

yes, but some areas have fast waters with huge distances (time-consuming)

something that is not calculated (timewise) in certain areas

and is making problems for those who can use some help sometimes.

if the other island is 1 minute away(danced arias) it is no problem to get help or make shelter 

but if an island is 10 minutes away ....well you get the answer...2 minutes is nothing

 

ps. i deal on my own terms not yours

Im not sure if I am understanding right, but isnt that the point of a 3 min join timer? If you are closeby you could realisticly join the battle. If you are too far away, 10 min, you cannot - because 10 min OW translates to actual speed or battle distance is not comparable

[Thonys]

4 minutes ago, Liq said:

Im not sure if I am understanding right, but isnt that the point of a 3 min join timer? If you are closeby you could realisticly join the battle. If you are too far away, 10 min, you cannot - because 10 min OW translates to actual speed or battle distance is not comparable

but it is not 3 minutes it is 2 minutes and that's to short...(you cant even turn your ship even when you are on the circle) 

ps.

i am beginning to hate restriction and timer the more i think about it......

Edited March 18, 2019 by Thonys

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Thonys said:

but it is not 3 minutes it is 2 minutes and that's to short...(you cant even turn your ship even when you are on the circle) 

Ok 2 or 3 min is debatable IMHO. But defo not 10 min

[Vernon Merrill]

While we're waxing nostalgic, allow me to advocate for what was, in fact, the BEST RoE of them all......

Behold...

The.  TWO.  CIRCLES!!!!!!!!!!

[Anne Wildcat]

On the topic of patrol zones, I’d love to be able to leave the patrol zone battles if not attacked.  Was sailing in the patrol zone Saturday night for 3 hours, only saw other pirates there. I found one battle and hopped into it. It was a pirate in a 5th rate, I believe, attacking a sweedish trader snow. I would have rather exited the battle instead of staying stuck in there until the trader was captured. 

 

I’m all for 2-3 min ROE.

[Angus MacDuff]

23 minutes ago, Liq said:

Ok 2 or 3 min is debatable IMHO. But defo not 10 min

I keep saying it but @admin, keeps refusing to institute it....If you can see the swords you can join the battle.  Leave the swords up for two minutes (ish)

[Aerospace]

I wrote this a week ago on the forum :

"About new ROE rule of reinforcing weakside for 20 minutes, it is such an abusable feature. Of course being abused by guys who are mostly into pvp ! 

I give you a nice example. Hey let's do 3 vs 3 battle ? Okay let's do it  and battle starts your team with 3x1st rate and enemy joins with 2x1st rate plus a 2nd rate. When you beat them, they will say you were superior, you had 3x1st rate !, but why didn't they join with 3x1st rate as they could easly ???

REASON: cause if they fart up, they can call another mate during 20 minutes, so it becomes 3x1st against 3x1st and one 2nd, and do it when 20 minutes is about to end  I can also exploit it, how? Just call a friend from another nation to join their side, bumm who is clever now ? (of course after 20 minutes timer is done, friend will say "oh enjoy your battle, I don't wanna distrupt your duel, I exit, bye")"

And this happened to me last night :

I was kind of having a duel with this guy (he is also twitching and from a certain nation but just a luck, it is never important). My L'Ocean vs his pink Victory, we start fighting he tries to get behind me, stern rake me, he can not, he tries to demast me and he can not. So he starts kiting, I ask if he is running if the battle is over ? and he says no, and than silly me notice another ship is shooting from behind (I have to mention I had damaged him, I had the fair upper hand) Another Victory, his teammate just behind me. Yes I got a bit frustrated because I thought this PVP guy to be honest, as he is skilled he would not need this kind of shit. Unfortunately I learnt  that he was actualy  a duchebag, I was more angry to the developers "as they brought up this new stupid ROE". This shows me there will be no fair fights anymore. 

If you are an asshole do not forget to fight a guy with a higher BR, so you can rape him with your friend. Attack with fast Vic, just tag that Santi or L'Ocean kite, so your friend with fully boarding fast Santi can join and it is fun RIGHT ? Appy this to all ships, and yes you will have lot's of PVP but for a short time, enjoy that short orgasm and get flushed.

Serously who would thing this is increasing the PVP and for how long, I am not doing it anymore, I am alone and I do not have gank squad that I can call anytime when I hello kitty up and I am not that kind of guy, if I hello kitty up, respects and salute to the other captain. 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Aerospace

[greybuscat]

1 hour ago, Liq said:

Fair battles are nice. But after all, it IS a MMO where, in the largest Part of the map, you should only get to fight what you see

My only problem with this is that, in practice, you often don't get to fight what you see with extremely short timers. If this is the intent, any battle within your horizon (or for any ship within a hypothetical second, much larger circle than the pull circle) should stay open for as long as it is within your horizon, with little to no regard for time-based limitations.

Edited March 18, 2019 by greybuscat
fixed a typo

[Israel Hands]

I wrote even before the implementation of the new RoE that it would basically be a sealclubbers party - too many ways to exploit in favor of the experienced PvP player and it'll just end up in a situation where any1 getting ganked can't get assistence because partly no one knows what lies beyond the horizon and more specifically - the ganked will most likely be sinking before reinforcements can arrive which basically locks part of the BR available to a ship that from the start has been focus fired.

 

We've tested this before.

[Teutonic]

I would adjust it so that after 2 minutes of the battle being open to both sides, the side with larger BR is the MAX BR allowed in the battle (similar to patrol zones and Port BAttles having max BR).

so if a battle is 300 br versus 200, the side with 200 can only add 100 more BR of ships into the battle for those 20 minutes.

 

I'd also agree to adjusting the time to go down from 20 to 15 minutes

Edited March 18, 2019 by Teutonic

[Anne Wildcat]

I may just be old school, but the longer ROE just seems to benefit the lazy. For example, a trader snow gets attacked.  Given the low BR of traders, they can call and ask for help for twenty minutes. Were they afk sailing, not watching for potential enemies? Why didn’t they have their friends escort them? I prefer the ROE to benefit proactive PVP not reactive PVP.

[Israel Hands]

2 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I would adjust it so that after 2 minutes of the battle being open to both sides, the side with larger BR is the MAX BR allowed in the battle (similar to patrol zones and Port BAttles having max BR).

so if a battle is 300 br versus 200, the side with 200 can only add 100 more BR of ships into the battle for those 20 minutes.

 

I'd also agree to adjusting the time to go down from 20 to 15 minutes

Why come to the assistance of a trader in need then? - It'll just be BR wasted on a ship that is useless in a fight and the opponent will be able to match any BR that you join with. 15 min or 30 min join timers makes no difference since most of the battles will be, if not over then decided after the first 15-20 mins.. Especially if one side can focus fire on 1 tagged ship and the other side can't do much but match the max BR with some of it wasted on an already sinking ship.

 

I prefer a RoE rooted in realism, which means u can't join the battle if the time it takes from OW to get to the battlesite takes longer than the instanced battle would've taken in OW.. Remember OW time is compressed much more than instanced time. The current rule is a cartoon rule, kinda like the nations, rooted in anything but realism.

[Tiedemann]

Are you seriously going to promote changing ROE so the gankers do not end up in equal fights and can keep ganking with out getting interrupted by players joining the fight? That is the stupidest thing ever! Why bother sailing into OW if there is nothing there. The 2 minute timer removed content from OW. I sailed for 2-3 hours several times and there was nothing in OW except in the reinforcement zones.. If you where in port when a battle started, then you could just ignore it. Now I have to sail out and help clan/nation mates all the time. This is a massive difference!  Not to mention the fact that you can sail to enemy nations front line and find OW battles you can join (gankers should like this feature).

Besides all efforts to support ganking playstyle just breaths shit players, so it kills the game for those looking for real fights. More important imo is for nations to be able to assist their own players when they get ganked. Stuff like this I believe will keep more players in the game.

There is some panic going on here in the PvE and ganking community and I have the solution for y'all: 

PvE'ers: Do kill missions, group missions or attack AI fleets with higher BR then your own.
PvP hunters: Just attack targets with more BR than you have and problem is solved. Stop hunting players in trader brigs in Bellonas!!!
Gankers: How about you learn to play fighting in more equal fights? This can be good practice for you guys, if you do not run and actually fight together.

[Aerospace]

18 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

PvP hunters: Just attack targets with more BR than you have and problem is solved. Stop hunting players in trader brigs in Bellonas!!!

This is a bit problematic.

You get tagged by a Victory when you are in your L'Ocean. 18 minutes later a Santisima joins the enemy and battle is closed, so?

You are in a Bellona (500BR ) getting tagged by 1 fast Hercules (110 BR) and 1 Endymion (280 BR) that makes you 500 BR vs them 390 BR, let me put 1 more LRQ into enemy team (100BR). They just keep rigging damage on you, stern raking you. What is the BR now your 500 against their 490 and 15 minutes later a speed fitted boarding Victory will join the enemy. Nobody will come help you, battle will close in few minutes, it is game over in admin's fair fight and more pvp fantasy.

This is already started to be used by some PVP clans, I assure you it will be the Meta. So gank squads are happier than ever, because they know if they keep enemy long in battle, their big brother is on the way to finish the job. (I was the victim twice and it is already happening)

Edited March 18, 2019 by Aerospace

[Teutonic]

50 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Why come to the assistance of a trader in need then? - It'll just be BR wasted on a ship that is useless in a fight and the opponent will be able to match any BR that you join with. 15 min or 30 min join timers makes no difference since most of the battles will be, if not over then decided after the first 15-20 mins.. Especially if one side can focus fire on 1 tagged ship and the other side can't do much but match the max BR with some of it wasted on an already sinking ship.

 

I prefer a RoE rooted in realism, which means u can't join the battle if the time it takes from OW to get to the battlesite takes longer than the instanced battle would've taken in OW.. Remember OW time is compressed much more than instanced time. The current rule is a cartoon rule, kinda like the nations, rooted in anything but realism.

almost every battle I have been in since the carronade cannons got their damage reduce has lasted more than 20 minutes. Battles were decided in the first 15-20 minutes before all of this anyway.

I prefer RoE rooted in allowing players to find each other more often an engage more often. I've seen and joined more battles then ever before. Many of the battles I have been in, the other side had the lower BR and their reinforcements came and we still fought and still had a good time.

Again - I understand that having a 1v1 with slightly different BR and than a lineship coming in to ruin the fight is a bad outcome of what we have now, that's why I suggest making the BR of the fights be the MAX of the side with larger BR - so if the side with less BR is more significant then there is actual room to make it a cool battle. I'm sure a large majority of people severely dislike extremely lopsided battles, I also understand that a few people actually enjoy those battles too. Players were upset that they could be in a battle versus 5, 6, or 7 people andno one could help them because "op, 2 minutes are up guess you're going to get a walloping." Those players go back to port, log off, or do something else. People couldn't find battles or get to them so they didn't "play" the game.

I'd much rather someone pop in my battle 10 minutes later to fight more people overall and to have players in that battle.

BUT I am against the fact that someone could wildly abuse the lower BR RoE at this moment and that is why I advocate change.

[Teutonic]

2 minutes ago, Aerospace said:

This is a bit problematic.

You get tagged by a Victory when you are in your L'Ocean. 18 minutes later a Santisima joins the enemy and battle is closed, so?

You are in a Bellona (500BR ) getting tagged by 1 fast Hercules (110 BR) and 1 Endymion (280 BR) that makes you 500 BR vs them 390 BR, let me put 1 more LRQ into enemy team (100BR). They just keep rigging damage on you, stern raking you. What is the BR now your 500 against their 490 and 15 minutes later a speed fitted boarding Victory will join the enemy. Nobody will come help you, battle will close in few minutes, it is game over in admin's fair fight and more pvp fantasy.

This is already started to be used by some PVP clans, I assure you it will be the Meta. So gank squads are happier than ever, because they know if they keep enemy long in battle, their big brother is on the way to finish the job. (I was the victim twice and it is already happening)

It is problematic, this shouldn't happen period.

your BR (if it's higher after the 2 minute window) should be the MAX BR of the fight. 

So then you'd only have to fight the Hercules, endymion, and a requin - a Bellona can still fight that and still come out on top.

Edited March 18, 2019 by Teutonic

[Vernon Merrill]

20 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

Are you seriously going to promote changing ROE so the gankers do not end up in equal fights and can keep ganking with out getting interrupted by players joining the fight? That is the stupidest thing ever! Why bother sailing into OW if there is nothing there. The 2 minute timer removed content from OW. I sailed for 2-3 hours several times and there was nothing in OW except in the reinforcement zones.. If you where in port when a battle started, then you could just ignore it. Now I have to sail out and help clan/nation mates all the time. This is a massive difference!  Not to mention the fact that you can sail to enemy nations front line and find OW battles you can join (gankers should like this feature).

Besides all efforts to support ganking playstyle just breaths shit players, so it kills the game for those looking for real fights. More important imo is for nations to be able to assist their own players when they get ganked. Stuff like this I believe will keep more players in the game.

There is some panic going on here in the PvE and ganking community and I have the solution for y'all: 

PvE'ers: Do kill missions, group missions or attack AI fleets with higher BR then your own.
PvP hunters: Just attack targets with more BR than you have and problem is solved. Stop hunting players in trader brigs in Bellonas!!!
Gankers: How about you learn to play fighting in more equal fights? This can be good practice for you guys, if you do not run and actually fight together.

Damn Brit Gankers:   (Again, as someone who sails alone often, I realize this is essentially a multiplayer game...)

 

[Israel Hands]

26 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

Are you seriously going to promote changing ROE so the gankers do not end up in equal fights and can keep ganking with out getting interrupted by players joining the fight? That is the stupidest thing ever! Why bother sailing into OW if there is nothing there. The 2 minute timer removed content from OW. I sailed for 2-3 hours several times and there was nothing in OW except in the reinforcement zones.. If you where in port when a battle started, then you could just ignore it. Now I have to sail out and help clan/nation mates all the time. This is a massive difference!  Not to mention the fact that you can sail to enemy nations front line and find OW battles you can join (gankers should like this feature).

Besides all efforts to support ganking playstyle just breaths shit players, so it kills the game for those looking for real fights. More important imo is for nations to be able to assist their own players when they get ganked. Stuff like this I believe will keep more players in the game.

There is some panic going on here in the PvE and ganking community and I have the solution for y'all: 

PvE'ers: Do kill missions, group missions or attack AI fleets with higher BR then your own.
PvP hunters: Just attack targets with more BR than you have and problem is solved. Stop hunting players in trader brigs in Bellonas!!!
Gankers: How about you learn to play fighting in more equal fights? This can be good practice for you guys, if you do not run and actually fight together.

I agree on the OW content thing, but honestly not on the 'ganking' or assist thing. If someone is tagged in their 4 t-brigs by a bellona then he can't get assistance from a bellona because if he does then the next enemy player can get in and so and so forth. It's a gank just waiting to happen, at least with the fixed timer you knew what to expect.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Tiedemann said:

Are you seriously going to promote changing ROE so the gankers do not end up in equal fights and can keep ganking with out getting interrupted by players joining the fight? That is the stupidest thing ever! Why bother sailing into OW if there is nothing there. The 2 minute timer removed content from OW. I sailed for 2-3 hours several times and there was nothing in OW except in the reinforcement zones.. If you where in port when a battle started, then you could just ignore it. Now I have to sail out and help clan/nation mates all the time. This is a massive difference!  Not to mention the fact that you can sail to enemy nations front line and find OW battles you can join (gankers should like this feature).

Besides all efforts to support ganking playstyle just breaths shit players, so it kills the game for those looking for real fights. More important imo is for nations to be able to assist their own players when they get ganked. Stuff like this I believe will keep more players in the game.

There is some panic going on here in the PvE and ganking community and I have the solution for y'all: 

PvE'ers: Do kill missions, group missions or attack AI fleets with higher BR then your own.
PvP hunters: Just attack targets with more BR than you have and problem is solved. Stop hunting players in trader brigs in Bellonas!!!
Gankers: How about you learn to play fighting in more equal fights? This can be good practice for you guys, if you do not run and actually fight together.

agree, only thing i would love to add is that all players in the battle have the option to close it when they want so if some guys find each other in OW they can vote to do a 1v1 so they dont have to think about interference from other players

[Israel Hands]

4 minutes ago, Wyy said:

agree, only thing i would love to add is that all players in the battle have the option to close it when they want so if some guys find each other in OW they can vote to do a 1v1 so they dont have to think about interference from other players

Like that suggestion, would make 1v1 battles easier to arrange.