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If you are running the crafting business (making ships or repairs), tell us ..
how is it working for you? Is it worth it, does it make money to you compared to other activities.

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Making Repairs and Cannons has ALWAYS been profitable and I advocate that nothing needs to change for the. This has been the best iteration of cannons and repairs for the economy.

the only issue people has is the time to sail the to the destinations to sell them, but that's because people are lazy. You do not need to increase the cost of Repairs and Cannons, I think they are in a wonderful place right now economically speaking.

As for ships - it honestly depends on where the player's shipyard is. Currently I don't think we can accurately say how the ship market is purely because we still have all our ships before the wipe. Most people also feel that making an oak/oak ship is a waste of time do to the perception of power from Rare woods.

Edited by Teutonic
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2 hours ago, admin said:

Captains

If you are running the crafting business (making ships or repairs), tell us ..
how is it working for you? Is it worth it, does it make money to you compared to other activities.

From a solo player's perspective...I love playing the whole game.  PVP, PVE, trade, and crafting.  I want to be self-sufficient to do this but I am very worried about the rarity of some items.  The best woods, mods...and permits now.  I still have to test it and will get back with more input as time goes by, but those are my main concerns.  I strongly believe that you will have more ships in OW, and PVP, if all players can produce all items.  I'm not an elite player who can capture the Admirals chests or Gold chests with skill and daring.  Just a journeyman skipper who likes to sail all classes at some point.

Edited by Angus MacDuff
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I can only speak from a personal perspective, but I've been crafting since I started out playing the game and it has singularly been the one point in the game that had the most meaningfull value to me. Atm I've stopped crafting and symptomatically I stopped playing more or less, kill a couple of PL players but that's about it.

There are some things that works great: Crafting is prob one of the most immersive aspects of the game - but it's been simplified a bit too much for my taste.

I liked having to craft the bits and pieces, I liked that it was a way to get new players involved in crafting and lvl'ing up in crafting without having them churn out one T-brig after another just to sell to the AI since no amount of players can absorb the sheer number of T-brigs required to advance to the levels where crafting actually becomes something usefull (lvl 20-25).

The costs for dragging out ressources atm is way too expensive and this is due to the rarity of woods - no one wants an oak/oak ship so any ship made of oak/oak is, if not impossible to sell, then hard to sell in order to recap the invested time and ressources.

- The issue here is either make all woods available (and focus RvR on points of access, trading goods and VM) or balance the woods better to make other woods a ready and decent alternative.

The problem here is: if you make dragging out ressources cheaper then you get an econ where ppl can basically just sell to the AI and print money with little to no time spent on the sea, if you keep it at the current level then crafting is unprofitable and thus u lose a point of interest for ppl like me that likes to dable with a ship and test different builds. Without the option to build decent ships ppl will either leave or just sail the herc. A DLC for fifth rates could solve the ppl leaving issue but if you want crafters then crafting needs to be profitable..

We all know the wood meta and it's either all for everyone or players will not sail - which is due to imbalances of the woods, mods and to some extent ships (Gold ship I'm looking at you).

In terms of repairs - I haven't done the math on it but I haven't crafted a single repair since the capitals and freetowns started dropping them, I've just bought them and ferryed them to the spots where I need them which ofc raises a question - why not just have it everywhere or perhaps more poignantly - why have repair drops at all?

Cannons can be profitable, and I don't really see anything needing to change here.

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let the players fill gaps in the market. Pumping repairs into capitals is only seeing them get hoovered up on contract and then resold. let the players craft and sell them. Or at the very least make sure that the price of convenience is reflected accordingly

 

people still asking for permits they cannot find in the admiralty

 

hard to determine whether the market could function as intended as there is a suplus of ships right now. With no alts I have 27 ? mostly good quality woods and a barrel of upgrades.

 

Cannons and repairs were hoovered up by clans and individuals as they were items exempt from the wipe.

 

hard to tell whether it's worth it or not without more ships sinking / time played

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I used to like crafting intermediate shipbuilding parts (knees/fittings/etc...), but that went away.  Its too bad, as there was always a niche market to find so that you didnt always have to compete with the LuckyL's and Tucks of the NA world.  Now I sell some repairs here and there....  Which ALWAYS seem to sell easily and quickly.

Agree with above comment that shipbuilding is impossible to gauge right now while most players still have a full compliment of specialized ships that didnt get wiped.

Once those are gone, I think we'll really be able to better judge whether Oak/Oak will be a viable option.

My $.02 from a really low-level "crafter"

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Haven't built a ship after the patch, yet. I got 2x LO Permit from golden chests, but the rare woods are way to rare/expensive  to build a ship and oak/oak is a no sell on pve. Price range for oak/oak would be same as for a capped ship (which comes at almost zero cost)

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The crafting of repairs is profitable for the people that can spend the time doing it, as it takes a bit of time to gather the mats craft the repairs and then transport them to where they will sell. The risky part is getting them to the best markets (free towns), but this is how it should be.

The problems I see with the repairs market is that the people who require them do not want to pay a reasonable price. They want them cheap without realizing the basic cost to make them even with free LH. The other issue is the auction system where you are charged a commission to place an item on sale for a limited time. If your item does not sell you cannot list more at a lower price without taking the loss on the commission. People can undercut you by 1 Real and continue doing so till your item expires. When it becomes too competitive the profit margins are slashed till it is not worthwhile selling it anymore. But I guess that is how a free market should operate. All people placing buy orders for repairs usually put their offer lower than the cost to make so I have never been able to find an order that I want to fill instantly. This requires players to realize the true cost to make and put buy orders that give decent profit to the crafters. e.g. hull reps cost at minimum 86 Reals to make, so selling for 150 Reals will give a decent profit for the time and risk involved, less than that and it becomes easier to just make money from trade goods as for the same risk and sailing time you can double your money.

Making ships is currently not worth it as most of the needed ships are now behind the combat medals system with permits and crafters are usually the last to get access to these and the prices they have to pay make the ships they craft too expensive. The only ships that sell well are the purple or gold ones but to get them you have to craft numerous normal ones. This was not a problem previously as all you needed was the materials, but now with needing permits (some of which only drop from chests) you just cannot craft ships on the same scale as previously. People used to craft multiple ships to get the purple or gold and sell the basic ones off cheap, but that is no longer possible.

There should be an order system introduced where players can put up orders for ships so crafters can see what is required and what build they want and what price they are willing to pay. That way at least the crafter would know immediately that if he builds a ship it will sell. This would better model the reality as in reality not many ships were built on speculation, but were built to order.

Regarding getting rare woods I quite like the new clan resources system as it means I can get the resources at a known cost as long as I am in a clan that owns or is on the friend list of the port, rather than having to outbid people for a resource which pushes the price up.

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It will take the wipe to ween people off of their addiction to purple and gold ships....  

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So i'm one of the Famous 2h-Man (Kids, Family, Job - leaves me with 2h after everyone is in Bed-special Gamenights not included)

I do not run Alt currently, so this is from a one-Account-view

i own the Herucles DLC, wich i think is a must as a 2h Man to minimize Frustration. Wich is fine by me its not expensive.

I wanna give a litlle feedback about the current ways to make ingame (From my view).  Long, profitable Traderuns are not an option with 2h per Day, Risk is to high and it takes way to much time. If i have a Full gamenight it can be very well worth it, if you buy Tradegoods and fill up, with Delivery and Letter Missions for Dubloons.

Luckly there are niches for 2h-Man's. Since (as far as i know)  Repairs, Cannorrades and Long Gun only spawn in Capital Port and not in freeports, there is a constant need for those things in freeports like LT or LM. Player redeem or tow there ships there for PvP or PvE away from their Homewaters. All these ships need to be gunned and filled with Repairs.

 With 5 Outposts, ive been able to create  a Cannon and Repair productionline within close range to a certain Freeport. It takes me around 40min (If the Wind sucks)  to collect all the Ressources, Ship them to the Freeport craft the Repais and Cannons (wahtever is needed more, currently nobody else is doint it, so i got a monopol) and place the Contracts. After taht, i switch to my Frigate and join the Clan for PvP and PvE.  So far, 24h later everything has been sold, i collect the money maybe upgrade the Ressourcefacilites or  buy a new Ship. And do it all over again. I still upgrade my stuff, so i have not reached the maximum production yet (Still LH left after i crafted). But is already enough to cover my expenses and keep investing in more Facilities. Espacially since i dont have to buy Cannon or Repairs.  taht been said, i mostly use the Hercules for regualr PvP/PvE and only pull my bigger ships if i roam with the Clan.

Since Port do not produce Ressources anymore and its all Playerbased, i sell all my leftovers of Iron, Coal, Sugar and Woods in the Port i produce them. Crafters wich do not have a certain Ressource buy them.

My selling are increasing since Players now know that someone selling Ressource A in Port C on a regular base, so they tend to come back. And this short after the Patch. I believe this will work great after release when we got a bigger Playerbase again and more demand for these products.

i believe the playerbased Production is not an disadvantage for a 2h Man, but a change to get Real in short time, wihle providing  Ressources and needs to player with more Time.

 

So in Short: Playerbased Production for the Win! There need to be some Ports wich spawn Ressouces just in case, but it shoud come from the Player. It "employees" Players and  gives them an good income and adds Tactical options in Warfare!

 

More of it!

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7 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

It will take the wipe to ween people off of their addiction to purple and gold ships....  

I have never owned a gold ship and if I did, I think I would just sell it.  I just want to build whatever ship I take a notion to try...and that seems to be much more difficult.  Before all of this, I would build ships for myself and sell a couple for reasonable prices.....surely that was good for the economy.  No more though..

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The point not considered in the recent patch: on PvE server we can cap every ship we like, thus an oak/oak ship doesnt sell, since its not better than the capped ones. Only ships with rare woods are worth crafting on PvE, and thats way to hard now.

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I am in the repair business and it seems profitable.  I do not craft anymore because repairs are abundant and cheap in ports where they drop.

Transporting repairs is not a problem because with a few TBrigs I can haul thousands of tons quickly and the supply will last for long enough under sell contracts.  Finding ports with an ongoing need is key.   I'm glad that more ports don't drop huge quantities cheaply.

I miss the old mechanics where materials were required to build ships.  The new models are simpler, and initially seems more popular, but appears to be oversimplified and less interesting.  Too many business opportunities have been removed. I don't craft ships.  Players with more time to play can be our shipwrights.

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I craft some cannons from time to time.And repairs that I use myself. It seems profitable.

You really have to find a solution for the woodproblem.  The most commonly used ships íngame should be oak, and perhaps teak. 

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Before this last wipe I used to make Connie’s, Trincs and endys- one per day or so.  I would make trade runs from the Bahamas to support this and hiit NPC’s to grind dubs.  I would PVP whenever the opportunity was there and didn’t mind losing a ship because I had plenty. I only kept ships with a bonus and sold the rest rather cheaply.  Since the wipe last week I haven’t made a single ship.  Maybe I haven’t figured out the new resource distribution, but I don’t have enough teak and white oak to build anything.  For me, this is the main unfavorable aspect associated with the most recent game changes- the rest of the game is playing very well for me. Just one dogs experiences.

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1 hour ago, Angus MacDuff said:

From a solo player's perspective...I love playing the whole game.  PVP, PVE, trade, and crafting.  I want to be self-sufficient to do this but I am very worried about the rarity of some items.  The best woods, mods...and permits now.  I still have to test it and will get back with more input as time goes by, but those are my main concerns.  I strongly believe that you will have more ships in OW, and PVP, if all players can produce all items.  I'm not an elite player who can capture the Admirals chests or Gold chests with skill and daring.  Just a journeyman skipper who like to sail all classes at some point.

 

58 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

I can only speak from a personal perspective, but I've been crafting since I started out playing the game and it has singularly been the one point in the game that had the most meaningfull value to me. Atm I've stopped crafting and symptomatically I stopped playing more or less, kill a couple of PL players but that's about it.

There are some things that works great: Crafting is prob one of the most immersive aspects of the game - but it's been simplified a bit too much for my taste.

I liked having to craft the bits and pieces, I liked that it was a way to get new players involved in crafting and lvl'ing up in crafting without having them churn out one T-brig after another just to sell to the AI since no amount of players can absorb the sheer number of T-brigs required to advance to the levels where crafting actually becomes something usefull (lvl 20-25).

The costs for dragging out ressources atm is way too expensive and this is due to the rarity of woods - no one wants an oak/oak ship so any ship made of oak/oak is, if not impossible to sell, then hard to sell in order to recap the invested time and ressources.

- The issue here is either make all woods available (and focus RvR on points of access, trading goods and VM) or balance the woods better to make other woods a ready and decent alternative.

The problem here is: if you make dragging out ressources cheaper then you get an econ where ppl can basically just sell to the AI and print money with little to no time spent on the sea, if you keep it at the current level then crafting is unprofitable and thus u lose a point of interest for ppl like me that likes to dable with a ship and test different builds. Without the option to build decent ships ppl will either leave or just sail the herc. A DLC for fifth rates could solve the ppl leaving issue but if you want crafters then crafting needs to be profitable..

We all know the wood meta and it's either all for everyone or players will not sail - which is due to imbalances of the woods, mods and to some extent ships (Gold ship I'm looking at you).

In terms of repairs - I haven't done the math on it but I haven't crafted a single repair since the capitals and freetowns started dropping them, I've just bought them and ferryed them to the spots where I need them which ofc raises a question - why not just have it everywhere or perhaps more poignantly - why have repair drops at all?

Cannons can be profitable, and I don't really see anything needing to change here.

I am like this two player. I used to love crafting and I crafted literally dozens of ships (5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 rates) during a certain period of the game when this was possible. It is now impossible and I am not crafting any longer. I know that I will rely on the dlc ships after the wipe, at least for quite a long time because i am mostly a solo player. I am not made at it… this is a new game environment and mechanic and i must adapt… I will see on the long run. I am able right now to gather some woods and probably I will be able to craft a few ships… but certainly not to do a business of it… it will be for me… Then, except if the 'client' bring me all the material and permit, I dont see how I can build ships for the nation. I was loving too when the crafting was a bit more complex than now.

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My crafting 2 cents:

1) Crafting carronades and selling them in capital or Free towns has always been my main source of income - this works well. The journey to gather the mats isnt too long. Crafting them is easy and there was an element of danger as you then had to get the stuff into the free port to sell it

2) I'm not a fan of the random drop chance of special trim/purple/gold ships. After maxing out knowledge slots on some boats and after finding out we could get Teak in Blondel and WO from Nassau area we (3 player clan) started to aim for crafting some nicer ships... It was annoying to "roll the dice" after painstakingly collating and moving all the mats to then end up with a standard blue. .. and again... and again... and again... only to see your clansmen make one on the first go.

The surplus blues also didn't feel like they made much money when subsequently sold (mainly rattle heavies, princes, belle poules) especially compared to the profit margins generated by the carronades (that were far easier to produce)

Not taking anything else other than "I find it slightly frustrating" into account I'd prefer rng be removed from this process

 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Captains

If you are running the crafting business (making ships or repairs), tell us ..
how is it working for you? Is it worth it, does it make money to you compared to other activities.

With the insane prices for the clan delivery missions and all this permit headache the business of crafting ships has been severely damaged.

Consequently, pvp and rvr will suffer too.

 

After all these years, we keep betting for hardcore and grindy impositions. Im disheartened.

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It is not working for me.  It does not seem worth it, so I'm not doing it any more.  It does not seem to make much money at all compared to fighting PvE.

The clan and friends only access to rare woods is demoralizing and will only end up helping large clans and their friends leaving smaller clans without hope.  Their friends lists are all full.

The OP, P2W, DLC ships are still the primary cause of ship crafting's demise.

 

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When I say it is impossible, i dont speak only about permit and woods… but also general prices: we got 50k reals after the wipe. In 1 week playing average 2h/day i managed to arrive at 120k. Then I wanted to get some oak from my forest… 1000 oak = more than 100k reals….. I did not took them...

 

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12 minutes ago, PYR said:

When I say it is impossible, i dont speak only about permit and woods… but also general prices: we got 50k reals after the wipe. In 1 week playing average 2h/day i managed to arrive at 120k. Then I wanted to get some oak from my forest… 1000 oak = more than 100k reals….. I did not took them...

 

that is extremely low compared to my 2 hour a day activities. What were you doing? Where are you located? I haven't played every night for the past week. I am serious in that  I want to help players find easy ways to make cash.

I was buying Beans and selling them to a port 10 minutes away and adding 80% profits after taxes my reals every time.

-- I went from 50k reals to 150k the first night. I used an LGV, and then got a 2nd LGV from a friend midway in.

-- the second night I traded i got to 300k. I had enough money to use my indiaman to do these runs.

-- I am now doing a long trade run and logged off at sea last night, I am to finish it tonight and I am expecting to have around 800k-1mill reals once i finish the round trip. I am doing this run with 2 indiamans.

I have also bought and sold coconuts, maize, tools. All trade goods that can be done in short distances to a big consuming port. They aren't the flashy "I got 3 mill", but I can assure you that you'll gain a significant amount of cash. 

During the first 2 trade nights I did I was able to extract some resources as well.

If there is anything I dislike, it is that I feel some resources are a little too expensive to extract.

Edited by Teutonic
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I am max level craft on my alt. I used to craft heavy frigates and ships of the line and sell for profit in my capital city. So basically I am an independent shipbuilder in war server.

I stopped crafting "seriously" since the wipe, but - looking at the price of the ships  and having anyway set up the whole product chain once more just to check the cost of materials - I think the problems is basically the scarcity of silver to self sustain the basic level of productive chain, so that - basically - you have to be very careful in harvesting the percise quantity of resources in order not to spend too much silver even if you craft fir/fir or oak/oak.

This thing is caused by a lot of concurring factors

1) the surplus of basic materials is not easily sold to other players because not many players are engaged in ship crafting (and the server population, at least in my faction, is very low so the demand is not soild enough to start planning huge investments in example for build a SOL) 

2) trade (which is now the way to make silver) - being now distance based - takes too much time to let you engage in crafting seriously;

3) before last patches, missions and NPC grinding was a way to make some quick silver (well it was gold, but it's the same). Now NPCs are very rare to be found and missions are less effective in getting money.

4) doubloons are easier to get with letter/passenger, but - in contracts - they have low prices in reals in comparison with the time spent to get them.

5) low population on the server, low demand of ships

Basically ... my feeling is that "pure ship crafting" gameplay is now affected by the deflation on silver pieces, by the in game walls put on rare woods and marks and by the low demand of goods due to low server population (so it's more a stagflation than a deflation).

My solution: since doubloons are quite easy to get, just let players (or maybe just the ones that have a level 3 shipyard and/or that have gained a certain crafting level) change doubloons for silver and for VM or PVP marks in the admiralty shop (even with a very huge ratio, but remember that most of crafters are basically carebears, so they are much more likely to engage in ginding low risk doubloons for days than putting their nose once in PVP zones)

Edited by victor
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Business in this game doesn't make sense. You can only have 5 buildings and there is no tax. So pretty much everyone has to equally chip into the crafting or the game doesn't flow and we all starve off repairs and cannons. Many ports are without both, and no one has the means to enterprise which means a stagnation. There should be no limit, if you're making 100m a day you should be able to have as many buildings as you can mantain and pay taxes to the ports you're set up in. Then you could actually have large business clans, or players making big moves and keep ports alive instead of them being desolate of a market.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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16 minutes ago, victor said:

My solution: since doubloons are quite easy to get, just let players (or maybe just the ones that have a level 3 shipyard and/or that have gained a certain crafting level) change doubloons for silver and for VM or PVP marks in the admiralty shop (even with a very huge ratio, but remember that most of crafters are basically carebears, so they are much more likely to engage in ginding low risk doubloons for days than putting their nose once in PVP zones)

Can always sell dubs for reals at a normal shop, IIRC any port. Right now things haven't settled with regards to econ and I think it's skewing some findings

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4 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Business in this game doesn't make sense. You can only have 5 buildings and there is no tax. So pretty much everyone has to equally chip into the crafting or the game doesn't flow and we all starve off repairs and cannons. Many ports are without both, and no one has the means to enterprise which means a stagnation.

Unless of course you have the Admiralty DLC. Then you can craft everything yourself. You could alternate buildings too but that costs reals.

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