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Endurance and Final exams - How to pass them (in new damage model)

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Just now, van Veen said:

From what I know, masts mainly came down because of damaged rigging, i.e. shrouds, spreaders, fore and aft stay. Having a lot of canvas up and losing one out 4 windward shrouds in a good breeze lets the mast fall immediately. 

However, the game has no hitboxes for the rigging and it'd be a lot of work to implement it into all ship models. Easier approach: perhaps the damage done to masts can be increased by the same percentage as the sails are damaged? Example: Sails damaged to 90% means mast hits inflict 10% more damage, sails damaged to 74% means 26% more mast damage etc. Assumption is that shooting sails also damages part of the rigging, therefore increasing chances of losing a mast.  

Mr Doran has a nice thread about masts. His penitration values look good an the rest can be balanced with hp. If mast sniping is to easy buff hp until it feels good. Mast sniping is OK but I dislike it because ships with no mast mods can be sniped in 30 seconds and ships with mods cannot be sniped. Dorans thickness combined with good hp values could work. The hp part would take a hot fix or 2 to get ideal values. Mods should only give hp buffs. Ships should always be dismastable. It's already super easy to repair at perfect time. 

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7 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Seems the MMO definition is highly diluted these days.

MMO - Massively Multiplay Online.
Hardocre of not has nothing to do with that...

EDIT: Sorry for off-topic. But someone was wrong on the internet 😁

Edited by Tom Farseer
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6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Go play The Air War (TAW) server and then we talk about that. Most hardcore feature is "dead is dead" brother. Very very few become aces before they go down in flames.

Characters are pesistent... until they die. And then, all awards, all medals, all streak, are gone.

Seems the MMO definition is highly diluted these days.

How many players has it?

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6 minutes ago, rediii said:

How many players has it?

Concurrent ? As many as the server handles. Across campaigns ? More than you can count.

Enough of it :) ; we not discussing what YOU think a mmo is, nor what I think, nor what jodgi thinks, nor what all others think.

Gear is NOT what makes a MMO. For me that's it.

...

massive is not a boss instance with 12 guys, nor a instanced area with 64.

massive is, for example 250 in the same instance, or even more ;) 

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1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

Concurrent ? As many as the server handles. Across campaigns ? More than you can count.

Enough of it :) ; we not discussing what YOU think a mmo is, nor what I think, nor what jodgi thinks, nor what all others think.

Gear is NOT what makes a MMO. For me that's it.

...

massive is not a boss instance with 12 guys, nor a instanced area with 64.

massive is, for example 250 in the same instance, or even more ;) 

I can't even find the game in google tbh

 

Ofcourse upgrades/gear dont make a MMO but it adds something to a MMO 

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Stop acting like you know it all. 

Naval Action is awesome. Glad we both like it.

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26 minutes ago, rediii said:

upgrades/gear dont make a MMO but it adds something to a MMO

And it can take away... I suppose that is why we fight on this point. What are the most important things for what and for whom? How do we prioritize?

<humming Queens of the Stone Age> "Mods they giveth and they taketh awaaaaahey, aaaoaaa, Mods they..."

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2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

And it can take away... I suppose that is why we fight on this point. What are the most important things for what and for whom? How do we prioritize?

<humming Queens of the Stone Age> "Mods they giveth and they taketh awaaaaahey, aaaoaaa, Mods they..."

Mods are a good thing. Hard to believe I said that right. Mods make every ship a different ship. It gives players hundreds of ways to build a ship. Meta mods are bad. I am with rediii on this one. He is a bitch but I agree with him :)

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58 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Stop acting like you know it all. 

Naval Action is awesome. Glad we both like it.

I asked how many players the game has, then I googled it because I dont know the game and wrote that here, what is your problem?

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3 hours ago, rediii said:

In my oppinion a highly skillbased mmo is good up to a certain point. If the game gets too skillbased you actually lose more players than you gain.

In the old NA days most nations had 25 people fleets and were roughly the same strength so at most PBs you didn't know the outcome. It was more fun than the current days were you know the good fleets that wreck everyone

@Anolytic @sveno @BABAY @Christendom @King of Crowns @Rabman @Reverse correct me if i'm wrong

I think its a fair point, unfortunately our current population has put us into this situation, imo. You either had 25 men ready to go, or you didn't go to the PB. I know with certainty our small modern fleets are definitely better than the old 25 man crews (from a skill perspective), where we needed every body we could get, and skill levels were all over the place. We had guys who didn't know how to manual sail or guys who didn't know how to board, etc. (they were definitely fun though) and yet we would win battles frequently with this mismatch of skill.

 

I'm honestly of the mind to essentially make frigates/4th rates free or have 5 durability again so it removes the sting of loss and more fighting is had, we're only going to get more people if access is easier. This is coming from someone who loved the austerity patch.

 

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38 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Mods are a good thing...Meta mods are bad.

 

Sure thing!

How do we keep mods as a good thing and stop meta mods?

Speed failfit solo is fantastic group tackler (META)

Invincible masts (META)

Some qualities become meta real fast while others like pen, turning, heel, hp, thickness and aiming have more wiggle room before META sets in.

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39 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Sure thing!

How do we keep mods as a good thing and stop meta mods?

Speed failfit solo is fantastic group tackler (META)

Invincible masts (META)

Some qualities become meta real fast while others like pen, turning, heel, hp, thickness and aiming have more wiggle room before META sets in.

Elite French, Carthagena and Kiri masts are the worst. Is copper platings a problem? I don't view them speed modded ships in a negative way because speed can be countered. Chain and dismasting. 

Carthagena on frigates is a joke. it gives you 5cm (10-20%)  armor on frigates and has 0 negative effects. It is completely overpowering. 

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6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Elite French, Carthagena and Kiri masts are the worst. Is copper platings a problem? I don't view them speed modded ships in a negative way because speed can be countered. Chain and dismasting. 

Carthagena on frigates is a joke. it gives you 5cm (10-20%)  armor on frigates and has 0 negative effects. It is completely overpowering. 

elite spanish is pretty strong on lineships

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With the penetration changes thickness mods have a lot less value, with guns over penetrating from 250m out, and angling only bouncing a fraction of what they were previously.

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28 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I don't view them speed modded ships in a negative way because speed can be countered.

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

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6 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

This.   It was balanced (more or less) when you could pit speed vs. HP.   Now you have to assume getting tagged and kited while the 13-knot death star that joined 15 minutes later slowly catches up.

Or you can hunt in some far off area and hope to get one fight per day...

Decisions, decisions....

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16 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

Kill or disable the speed modded ships

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15 minutes ago, rediii said:
32 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

Kill or disable the speed modded ships 

I usually tend to agree with your statements Rediii.
But you know that this is sometimes easier said than done. Even with repairs Two or three good captains in light ships can slow you down enough so that anything can catch up to you. One could argue that those people deserve their kill or loot or whatever but in my book a ganks a gank and the problem pointed out by Jodgi is not so easily solved.

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19 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

I usually tend to agree with your statements Rediii.
But you know that this is sometimes easier said than done. Even with repairs Two or three good captains in light ships can slow you down enough so that anything can catch up to you. One could argue that those people deserve their kill or loot or whatever but in my book a ganks a gank and the problem pointed out by Jodgi is not so easily solved.

uneven battles are a feature in NA. I still stand with that

If you go out solo in a slow ship it's your problem

If you go out solo in a ship you can't rpelace its your problem aswell

 

The day uneven battles are removed you can also remove the OW 

edit: the only way to "solve" that is to give more negative stuff for fast woods and speedupgrades

Edited by rediii
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21 hours ago, jodgi said:

Pfft, if these mythical noobs can pass the exam, they're ready.

Dont worry, we won't pass. To be honest I will probally have to give up before I throw my pc out of my window.

I mean come on this tutorial punishes me harder than my mistress...

 

Dont feel sorry for me though, I knew new player support was lacking and that the learning curve was really steep. 

 

 

Regardless, if anyone has some usefull links for noobs that would be fantastic. For instance I have issues with predicting and understanding AI boarding. I mean I get what beats out what. But that is as far as I can go. (sorry there is probally a forum post somewere, I will look around just to be sure)

Cheers sailors,

A true noob with 13hrs in the tutorial.

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5 minutes ago, rediii said:

uneven battles are a feature in NA. I still stand with that

It's fine. I've actually never campaigned for equalized battles in OW. I have campaigned for fair battles outside OW; rooms, circles, Legends or wherever, but NOT in OW.

My comment is about speed modding.

In my dream OW there would be no speed modding at all. Then only smaller ships would work as tacklers and they would thus be easier to deal with. We, however, have to deal with fail-fit endys or what have you, and that isn't as easy as dealing with renoms, hercs or rattles.

Imagine if we had a timer from instance start that kept track of how long it took for each ship to join and then placed each ship at a distance from the tagged factoring in the OW/instance time break... Then small ships and fail fits wouldn't have been a problem to deal with as the tanky cavalry would be far off instead of being dropped on your head.

We'll prolly never get something like this and I'm not even pretending to be asking for the impossible (that groups should have to sail together in order to fight together).

I'm just saying that speed modding aggravates and compounds the problems we have to accept due to OW ≠ instance.

Yay! unfair fights are cool and part of war and all that jazz... But how can it be beneficial to recruitment and retention that vets can make fail fit bellonas that can chase down a casual player's trinco? ... Because that never happens, right? And the forum is full of praise and appreciation of ganking, right?

I'm thinking damage control and minimizing frustration.

 

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13 minutes ago, jodgi said:

It's fine. I've actually never campaigned for equalized battles in OW. I have campaigned for fair battles outside OW; rooms, circles, Legends or wherever, but NOT in OW.

My comment is about speed modding.

In my dream OW there would be no speed modding at all. Then only smaller ships would work as tacklers and they would thus be easier to deal with. We, however, have to deal with fail-fit endys or what have you, and that isn't as easy as dealing with renoms, hercs or rattles.

Imagine if we had a timer from instance start that kept track of how long it took for each ship to join and then placed each ship at a distance from the tagged factoring in the OW/instance time break... Then small ships and fail fits wouldn't have been a problem to deal with as the tanky cavalry would be far off instead of being dropped on your head.

We'll prolly never get something like this and I'm not even pretending to be asking for the impossible (that groups should have to sail together in order to fight together).

I'm just saying that speed modding aggravates and compounds the problems we have to accept due to OW ≠ instance.

Yay! unfair fights are cool and part of war and all that jazz... But how can it be beneficial to recruitment and retention that vets can make fail fit bellonas that can chase down a casual player's trinco? ... Because that never happens, right? And the forum is full of praise and appreciation of ganking, right?

I'm thinking damage control and minimizing frustration.

Everyone hates ganking when it hits him

Everyone likes ganking if he can gank (few exceptions)

 

I agree however that big ships should not be faster than small ships.

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3 hours ago, jodgi said:

How do you counter speed modded ships accompanied by tanky line-ships on OW?

with friends. It is not a problem in my view that some people like ganking. There is nothing wrong with the game design there. The only problem I see that in a gank limited chain favors the gankers for reasons I don't need to explain again I hope. I warned people the second the devs told us about limited chain that ganking would be worse but I was wrong according to the forums. If chain was unlimited like repairs the line ships would not catch up to the frigates if they play their chain game into the wind.

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2 hours ago, Tom Farseer said:

I usually tend to agree with your statements Rediii.
But you know that this is sometimes easier said than done. Even with repairs Two or three good captains in light ships can slow you down enough so that anything can catch up to you. One could argue that those people deserve their kill or loot or whatever but in my book a ganks a gank and the problem pointed out by Jodgi is not so easily solved.

ganking is part of sandbox. I dont like it but what I hate more than ganking are artificial restrictions against it. Ganking is ok. There is nothing to be solved with ships that are designed to slow down a slower ship and let their friends catch up. How did the brits catch the uss president? Thats correct the Endymion did it with reinforcements behind her. To be fair the endymion is a good ship. Fast and heavy but there is nothing to solve about a gank clan with a tactic. 

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