Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Endurance and Final exams - How to pass them (in new damage model)

Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, Liq said:

Yeah was sort of the point :)

Bots do not run the mast protection mods that a very important in pvp :) 
But demasting is harder now than before (i think). It is easier to demast by raking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Aerospace said:

At least excluding final exam, any player should finish tutorial, only way to become M&C rank. This should be the rule at War Server. 

It WAS a rule in the royal navy. Midshipmen who could not pass the lieutenant exam remained midshipmen and were never assigned to commandeering duties.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, admin said:

Bots do not run the mast protection mods that a very important in pvp :) 
But demasting is harder now than before (i think). It is easier to demast by raking.

It takes 5 hits to take out a whole mast. With some practise you can dismast 2 masts of a ship with one broadside, as shown in video. 

If you MUST run mast mods to be competetive in PVP - something isn't right IMHO. 

Mast HP requires buffing and mast mods should only buff HP and not thickness, so it doesnt become impossible to dismast but rather takes longer.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Liq said:

It takes 5 hits to take out a whole mast. With some practise you can dismast 2 masts of a ship with one broadside, as shown in video. 

 

i cant do that. i dont know about removing skill oriented mechanics, as such aiming as yours is definitely skill
and if it is soo easy why not everyone is doing it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, admin said:

i cant do that. i dont know about removing skill oriented mechanics, as such aiming as yours is definitely skill
and if it is soo easy why not everyone is doing it.

Because it is boring meta that doesn't fit the historical videos everyone has seen/ books read. Even @HachiRoku thinks it is boring and often doesn't use it even tho it guarantees easy victories

 

The trick of mastsniping:

1. Change that graphic option so firezone is linear and not bend by waves

2. Place the left edge of your shotzone (Don't know how to call this) on the mast

3. Adjust slightly

continue

Edited by rediii
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rediii said:

Because it is boring meta that doesn't fit the historical videos everyone has seen/ books read. continue

you mean unhistorical like this?
MHnQUXB.jpg
Lt16c1u.jpg
ir1uSry.jpg
EfPrOSg.jpg
bPh3pH8.jpg
ot9RmNB.jpg
WoUx1s7.jpg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty sure that happened by broadsides and not by mastsniping with 80% hits

Also the mainreason you can't implement this is the whole mechanic NA is based around, sinking ships. If NA would be morale/crew/boardingbased I would be fine with it but if ships sink after ~6 broadsides then weak masts cant be in the game 

Edit: Ofcourse they can be in the game but it is rather boring for players that know the trick/are on the receiving end :) 

 

Any reason why we dont decrease accuracy by a lot? (horizontal x3, vertical x2 or something like that) Cannons were not that accurate I guess

Edited by rediii
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rediii said:

Pretty sure that happened by broadsides and not by mastsniping with 80% hits

Also the mainreason you can't implement this is the whole mechanic NA is based around, sinking ships. If NA would be morale/crew/boardingbased I would be fine with it but if ships sink after ~6 broadsides then weak masts cant be in the game 

Edit: Ofcourse they can be in the game but it is rather boring for players that know the trick/are on the receiving end :) 

 

Any reason why we dont decrease accuracy by a lot? (horizontal x3, vertical x2 or something like that) Cannons were not that accurate I guess

if @Liq agrees to lose this skill then we could consider. This is annoying to get mast sniped like this. But we read anecdotes on mast sniping in literature. On several ships of the royal navy there was a 1 gold guinea reward to a gun crew who could fall an enemy mast with a single shot. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, admin said:

if @Liq agrees to lose this skill then we could consider. This is annoying to get mast sniped like this. But we read anecdotes on mast sniping in literature. On several ships of the royal navy there was a 1 gold guinea reward to a gun crew who could fall an enemy mast with a single shot. 

In my oppinion a highly skillbased mmo is good up to a certain point. If the game gets too skillbased you actually lose more players than you gain.

In the old NA days most nations had 25 people fleets and were roughly the same strength so at most PBs you didn't know the outcome. It was more fun than the current days were you know the good fleets that wreck everyone

@Anolytic @sveno @BABAY @Christendom @King of Crowns @Rabman @Reverse correct me if i'm wrong

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me explain why.

In arenagames you have matchmakers that make people roughly play against the same skill players. High skillbased games are good there because of that, people enjoy it because the skillelvel of their enemies is the same. (or they create 2nd accounts to wreck players :D )

In a mmo you dont have a matchmaker. Decreasing the skilllevel needed you increase the % of topplayers and average players in the game which also means more players enjoy the game.

If only the top 5% can effectivly play in portbattles and have a chance to win then most players below them wont even try, or try a few times and then stop.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, rediii said:

In my oppinion a highly skillbased mmo is good up to a certain point. If the game gets too skillbased you actually lose more players than you gain.

In the old NA days most nations had 25 people fleets and were roughly the same strength so at most PBs you didn't know the outcome. It was more fun than the current days were you know the good fleets that wreck everyone

@Anolytic @sveno @BABAY @Christendom @King of Crowns @Rabman @Reverse correct me if i'm wrong

@rediii Please tell me you are not suggesting we waste all this dev progress and return to the old mechanics? To me, I feel the only thing needed with this new model is to HP boost the lower sections of the masts so they don't come down so easily. I find it odd to chain someone to 40% and then fire a broadside at the middle or top sections and somehow see the entire mast drop. It also feel weird to have the middle structure bar around 25% and then the entire mast drop. I don't really know how to fix the oddity, so my only suggestion is a HP buff. What suggestion would you have?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, admin said:

if @Liq agrees to lose this skill then we could consider. This is annoying to get mast sniped like this. But we read anecdotes on mast sniping in literature. On several ships of the royal navy there was a 1 gold guinea reward to a gun crew who could fall an enemy mast with a single shot. 

Sure, the difference is that those ships don't have gyro stability and near perfect accuracy at 100m. The demasting we have now would work, if it's gunnery counterpart was authentic, since it's not we pay with unauthentic demasting. You can buff/nerf masts more, but it will never feel right, you won't be able to convince your senses that demasting actually works like that, because it just doesn't IRL.

Edited by Slim McSauce
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

@rediii Please tell me you are not suggesting we waste all this dev progress and return to the old mechanics? To me, I feel the only thing needed with this new model is to HP boost the lower sections of the masts so they don't come down so easily. I find it odd to chain someone to 40% and then fire a broadside at the middle or top sections and somehow see the entire mast drop. It also feel weird to have the middle structure bar around 25% and then the entire mast drop. I don't really know how to fix the oddity, so my only suggestion is a HP buff. What suggestion would you have?

??

Chaining someone to 40% already means you do something wrong. You didn't understand mastHP aswell, each section has it's own HP bar and it's own mastthickness.

I already proposed decreasing cannon accuracy by a lot

Edit: Also I'm not saying go back to 25 vs 25 only 1 rate of ship battles. That was meant as a example. 

Edited by rediii
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, rediii said:

In arenagames you have matchmakers that make people roughly play against the same skill players.

Not in WoT, WoWs or WT modes that are used the most. WoT devs even say that pros dislike being matched up with equal skill players, so they only do that for special game-modes. "If you have skill, you have the right to pwn" is what SerB said over and over. 

About historical demasting: I've seen people here say that the French purposely targeted rigging (our equivalent is sniping masts).

Like others I want there to be balance, kiri, elite french and stacking mast mods take demasting out and in my view skill based PvP suffers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jodgi said:

Not in WoT, WoWs or WT modes that are used the most. WoT devs even say that pro's dislike being matched up with equal skill players, so they only do that for special game-modes. "If you have skill, you have the right to pwn" is what SerB said over and over. 

About historical demasting: I've seen people here say that the French purposely targeted rigging (our equivalent is sniping masts).

Like others I want there to be balance, kiri, elite french and stacking mast mods take demasting out and in my view skill based PvP suffers.

Upgrades you have to have to be competitive in pvp are bad for the game in my oppinion. It only supports the idea of "only pvp with the best equipment possible else you lose".

I don't understand why we can't have lower accuracy so you have to use broadsides to demast or take longer to mastsnipe

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, admin said:

It WAS a rule in the royal navy. Midshipmen who could not pass the lieutenant exam remained midshipmen and were never assigned to commandeering duties.

I would agree to test that rule of the game (Important test to be done, to see if this wouldn't be so discouraging for real new players that it send them out of the game).

But in this condition, resetting your account completely should reset the obligation to repass the exam. Not sure this would be acceptable for most of veteran players...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rediii said:

I don't understand why we can't have lower accuracy so you have to use broadsides to demast or take longer to mastsnipe

We had good balance before OW mods bonanza:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, rediii said:

Upgrades you have to have to be competitive in pvp are bad for the game in my oppinion. It only supports the idea of "only pvp with the best equipment possible else you lose".

I don't understand why we can't have lower accuracy so you have to use broadsides to demast or take longer to mastsnipe

In some very successful games, like IL-2 Sturmovik, there was no upgrading possibility. The on line community was strong and based on team work more than individual skill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

In some very successful games, like IL-2 Sturmovik, there was no upgrading possibility. The on line community was strong and based on team work more than individual skill.

IL-2 is no MMO tho. I think MMO's need upgrades because it create goals players can achieve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Where they die right away....easy meat

They will but that is some what the point. To teach them that the world is not safe and people want to kill them. I like the way EVE does it where there are mission lines that teach you aspects of the game, they generously reward you with basic ships, and gear. So when your a noob then do something dumb and die it isn't really a crushing blow. More like a small prick in the right direction. Also 5th rates should be relatively cheap and plentiful they are the best ships to learn with.

Edited by Aster
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Aerospace said:

At least excluding final exam, any player should finish tutorial, only way to become M&C rank. This should be the rule at War Server.

This is a game, sometimes it seems that you forget.

1 hour ago, admin said:

It WAS a rule in the royal navy. Midshipmen who could not pass the lieutenant exam remained midshipmen and were never assigned to commandeering duties.

But they only did it once. No British command or other nationality was sent back to the naval school to assemble again as a midshipman.

1 hour ago, admin said:

you mean unhistorical like this?

MHnQUXB.jpg

 

 

Lt16c1u.jpgThese are idealizations of the painter of naval battles. Apart from being war propaganda. It is true that sometimes masts fell, but it was not normal, but a matter of probabilities. What mattered was sinking or incapacitating the enemy crew with shrapnel to board the ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, rediii said:

IL-2 is no MMO tho. I think MMO's need upgrades because it create goals players can achieve

Aces High is an MMO that has been running from 1999 and is still running. It has completely unmoddable vehicles and OP vehicles are behind something like combat medals walls.

I object to the inclusive MMO term being used to exclusively mean eco-MMO, sandbox-MMO, grind-MMO or MMO-RPG.

I get that some people need those frikkin' PvE carrots to feel that their life has meaning but it is possible to give people something to work towards that does not exclude us from maintaining balance in the combat department. The combat is the most important quality this game has on offer, whatever the weak-minded carrot-munchers may think. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jodgi said:

About historical demasting: I've seen people here say that the French purposely targeted rigging (our equivalent is sniping masts).

Not exactly.  The French did like to target rigging, but it was broadsides of chain and bar shot, not ball.  The idea was to slash the opponent's rigging (ropes) and sails in order to slow him down.  This targeting was widespread over the entire area of the rigging and sail plan.  Sometimes (lucky hit) it would take out the smaller, upper masts and spars (Top-Gallant and Royals), but it would never bring down a lower mast.  Mast sniping did not exist.  No canon was accurate enough to purposely hit a mast from a moving ship where the target is another moving ship.  Masts came down from a combination of losing a high percentage of their standing rigging and/or volume of fire and lucky shots.  The raking damage that we are experiencing now from broadsides is a far more realistic model for how full masts were taken down.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I know, masts mainly came down because of damaged rigging, i.e. shrouds, spreaders, fore and aft stay. Having a lot of canvas up and losing one out 4 windward shrouds in a good breeze lets the mast fall immediately. 

However, the game has no hitboxes for the rigging and it'd be a lot of work to implement it into all ship models. Easier approach: perhaps the damage done to masts can be increased by the same percentage as the sails are damaged? Example: Sails damaged to 90% means mast hits inflict 10% more damage, sails damaged to 74% means 26% more mast damage etc. Assumption is that shooting sails also damages part of the rigging, therefore increasing chances of losing a mast.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rediii said:

IL-2 is no MMO tho

Go play The Air War (TAW) server and then we talk about that. Most hardcore feature is "dead is dead" brother. Very very few become aces before they go down in flames.

Characters are pesistent... until they die. And then, all awards, all medals, all streak, are gone.

Seems the MMO definition is highly diluted these days.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...